Luke Mitchell Theories

[William Wallace]

Can I ask - if this path was heavily frequented by members of the general public coming and going why were both girls allegedly told not to use it?  Why was it considered unsafe?

I think the answer is obvious. That path is the quickest way to walk to/from Easthouses to Newbattle. Regardless of whether people commonly walked or cycled it etc, no sensible parent would not warn their children about going up there. There are many secluded isolated parts, particularly the wooded areas on the other side of the wall. Whilst it's highly unlikely you could walk the full length and see nobody at 5pm in summer, you could walk part of it and see nobody and you could easily be sprung on by someone, it's about 3/4 of a mile, there are stretches where there would be nobody else near you. The point I'm making is you won't walk the full length at 5pm in summer and see nobody which Mitchell supposedly has managed to do.

[William Wallace]

Indeed, VS. WW's theories are deeply flawed and easily countered (as per previous posts on these very forums).

Flawed? Really?  Let's see if you can answer some questions then with credible answers:

1. How did Mitchell get from Newbattle to Easthouses at 5pm without being seen by one person walking towards Easthouses for 20 minutes? Not only would there have been people such as I've already mentioned, there was also Mr. Branches Rustling (later morphed into strangling noises) who cycled the full length of the path. There was also 2 people driving a moped around who admitted parking it at the V at the alleged time of the murder, but "couldn't remember" what they were doing.

2. Why did JF change his hair style so that he wouldn't look like the killer?  How did he know his new hairstyle didn't make him look the same as the killer?

3. Why were Police dogs brought up from England unsuccessful in tracing anything because areas near the murder location had been BLEACHED?

4. Why did 2 teenagers, one of whom was female, and a Granny go up a pitch dark creepy wooded path at 11pm at night whilst AO sat in the house along with "he who cannot be named" whose young sister was missing? Really? Would you send those 3 people up that path at 11pm at night whilst 2 men and other male relatives sat in the house? I don't even know anyone who would even consider allowing an 18 year old girl and a Granny aged around 60 to go up that path. As for "he who cannot be named" being in the house, the Police report said they only saw JuJ and AO in the house at 1.00am, so maybe "he who cannot be named" was not "available" to go out searching.

There are some people in here who cannot see the wood for the trees.

[Venturi Swirl]

I think the answer is obvious. That path is the quickest way to walk to/from Easthouses to Newbattle. Regardless of whether people commonly walked or cycled it etc, no sensible parent would not warn their children about going up there. There are many secluded isolated parts, particularly the wooded areas on the other side of the wall. Whilst it's highly unlikely you could walk the full length and see nobody at 5pm in summer, you could walk part of it and see nobody and you could easily be sprung on by someone, it's about 3/4 of a mile, there are stretches where there would be nobody else near you. The point I'm making is you won't walk the full length at 5pm in summer and see nobody which Mitchell supposedly has managed to do.

Of course it’s possible to walk this path (apparently unsafe to do so in broad daylight because of its quiet seclusion) without being seen and it’s equally possible that he was seen, just by person or perons who did not recall seeing him or who decided for whatever reason not to come forward.  Earlier you said it would take 20 minutes to walk this path of 3/4 of a mile. Maybe if you were lame. I walk 1.8 miles into town (part of which is up a steep hill) and it takes me less than 30 minutes.  I am 60+ years old, not a teenager. 

[Venturi Swirl]

Flawed? Really?  Let's see if you can answer some questions then with credible answers:

1. How did Mitchell get from Newbattle to Easthouses at 5pm without being seen by one person walking towards Easthouses for 20 minutes? Not only would there have been people such as I've already mentioned, there was also Mr. Branches Rustling (later morphed into strangling noises) who cycled the full length of the path. There was also 2 people driving a moped around who admitted parking it at the V at the alleged time of the murder, but "couldn't remember" what they were doing.

2. Why did JF change his hair style so that he wouldn't look like the killer?  How did he know his new hairstyle didn't make him look the same as the killer?

3. Why were Police dogs brought up from England unsuccessful in tracing anything because areas near the murder location had been BLEACHED?

4. Why did 2 teenagers, one of whom was female, and a Granny go up a pitch dark creepy wooded path at 11pm at night whilst AO sat in the house along with "he who cannot be named" whose young sister was missing? Really? Would you send those 3 people up that path at 11pm at night whilst 2 men and other male relatives sat in the house? I don't even know anyone who would even consider allowing an 18 year old girl and a Granny aged around 60 to go up that path. As for "he who cannot be named" being in the house, the Police report said they only saw JuJ and AO in the house at 1.00am, so maybe "he who cannot be named" was not "available" to go out searching.

There are some people in here who cannot see the wood for the trees.

Did Mitchell’s defence not ask questions about any of this apparent wood in court?  In any case it hardly seems the most robust of defences.  You seem to be pointing the finger of suspicion at a number of alternative suspects  but they can’t all be guilty surely??

[Venturi Swirl]

more observations and questions.
1) I’ve just walked back from the Doctors in a built up residential part of a town which has around 80,000 inhabitants at 2pm on a dry bright day.  I passed 2 people on the pavement on my 10 minute walk. 
2) If it would have been impossible to not be seen leaving the scene of the crime covered in blood then why was no one seen leaving the scene of the crime covered in blood?
3) if bleach had been used at the scene of the crime to put off the trained police dogs then how was it that Mitchell’s amateur cadaver hound was able to instantly detect the presence of a corpse when passing the scene?

[KenMair]

RDP is a 10 min walk, give or take. The last time I was there I didn't see a soul - the time before just one dog walker. If LM wished to reach the Easthouses end, there are many ways to do it and remain concealed particularly on the woodside section of the main path behind an 8 foot wall.

There are many times LM wasn't seen that evening when he claims he was out and also was seen later in the evening when he claimed he was in. The fallacy that Jodi was lured into the woods by a Stocky Man and then killed before he was whisked away on the back of a dilapidated moped could only come from the warped minds of Lean & Forbes.

[Venturi Swirl]

RDP is a 10 min walk, give or take. The last time I was there I didn't see a soul - the time before just one dog walker. If LM wished to reach the Easthouses end, there are many ways to do it and remain concealed particularly on the woodside section of the main path behind an 8 foot wall.

There are many times LM wasn't seen that evening when he claims he was out and also was seen later in the evening when he claimed he was in. The fallacy that Jodi was lured into the woods by a Stocky Man and then killed before he was whisked away on the back of a dilapidated moped could only come from the warped minds of Lean & Forbes.

So one theory is that she was murdered by one person who had an accomplice waiting nearby on a moped to whisk them away?  And the motive for this strange crime would be…?

[faithlilly]

RDP is a 10 min walk, give or take. The last time I was there I didn't see a soul - the time before just one dog walker. If LM wished to reach the Easthouses end, there are many ways to do it and remain concealed particularly on the woodside section of the main path behind an 8 foot wall.

There are many times LM wasn't seen that evening when he claims he was out and also was seen later in the evening when he claimed he was in. The fallacy that Jodi was lured into the woods by a Stocky Man and then killed before he was whisked away on the back of a dilapidated moped could only come from the warped minds of Lean & Forbes.

Why would Luke conceal himself as he journeyed to Easthouses then stand in the entrance to RDP with Jodi for all the world to see? It just doesn’t make sense.

Whether you saw, or were seen by, anyone would really depend on the time that you walked the path. If Luke and Jodi were seen by Bryson then they must have been on the path around 5pm just as people were coming from work, walking their dogs before dinner, pupils were walking to the concert at the school that night etc etc etc. Now if you were walking down the path later at night or perhaps very early in the morning then it would be feasible that you may not meet anyone but not at 5pm.

But of course you were on the path at around 5pm too, weren’t you? Of course you were, goes without saying, doesn’t it?

[William Wallace]

Of course it’s possible to walk this path (apparently unsafe to do so in broad daylight because of its quiet seclusion) without being seen and it’s equally possible that he was seen, just by person or perons who did not recall seeing him or who decided for whatever reason not to come forward.  Earlier you said it would take 20 minutes to walk this path of 3/4 of a mile. Maybe if you were lame. I walk 1.8 miles into town (part of which is up a steep hill) and it takes me less than 30 minutes.  I am 60+ years old, not a teenager.

Very clever. So you now know which speed he walked the path if he ever did? Person or persons who did not recall seeing him? Yeah there's a horrific murder and people who saw him didn't bother reporting it because they "didn't recall seeing him"?  Honestly, have you any idea how ludicrous that sounds? I don't think much of your derogatory use of the word lame either.

[Venturi Swirl]

Very clever. So you now know which speed he walked the path if he ever did? Person or persons who did not recall seeing him? Yeah there's a horrific murder and people who saw him didn't bother reporting it because they "didn't recall seeing him"?  Honestly, have you any idea how ludicrous that sounds? I don't think much of your derogatory use of the word lame either.

Gosh you are incredibly defensive and prickly aren’t you?  So you accuse me of assuming that a 14 year old boy would walk at at least the same speed if not faster than a 60 year old woman but apparently know that it would take him around 20 minutes to walk 3/4 of a mile??  How does that work then?  How do you know he wasn’t a fast walker, or even ran part of the way? And since when was lame a derogatory remark to describe someone with a walking impediment?  I can’t keep up with the correct terminology for that so please forgive me, though I wasn’t even accusing you of anything. I have a walking impediment btw, following a serious fall, should have mentioned that when I wrote about how long it takes me to walk into town.   And let’s not forget SOMEONE murdered Jodi on this apparently heavily frequented path and apparently NOONE came forward to describe the ACTUAL murderer leaving the scene of the crime covered in blood!  How ludicrous is that?! 

[William Wallace]

Gosh you are incredibly defensive and prickly aren’t you?  So you accuse me of assuming that a 14 year old boy would walk at at least the same speed if not faster than a 60 year old woman but apparently know that it would take him around 20 minutes to walk 3/4 of a mile??  How does that work then?  How do you know he wasn’t a fast walker, or even ran part of the way? And since when was lame a derogatory remark to describe someone with a walking impediment?  I can’t keep up with the correct terminology for that so please forgive me, though I wasn’t even accusing you of anything. I have a walking impediment btw, following a serious fall, should have mentioned that when I wrote about how long it takes me to walk into town.   And let’s not forget SOMEONE murdered Jodi on this apparently heavily frequented path and apparently NOONE came forward to describe the ACTUAL murderer leaving the scene of the crime covered in blood!  How ludicrous is that?!

I'm not defensive at all. I'm just pointing out that some people may find such terminology offensive. Let's not dwell on that.

The time it took him is not really key, whether it was 20m ambling or 10 minutes walking fast does not alter the fact that he allegedly walked the full length of that path and was seen by nobody. I'm not going to try and convince you how unlikely that was. Why don't you try it at the end of June on a sunny dry day and see if you can go unseen from one end to the other? As I said, I've done it, more than once actually and both times I was seen by at least several people.

There's a very obvious reason why nobody came forward that saw anyone leaving the murder scene covered in blood, because that person did not leave by walking on Roan's Dyke Path because of the risk of being seen. Why would there be 2 people up that path at the V at 5.15pm the alleged time of the murder, that seemed to develop amnesia in Court regarding what they were doing? All they said in Court was that they didn't remember what they were doing, now not even the "Mitchell Did It Brigade" can possibly argue that is even remotely believable. If they weren't trying to hide something, they would remember what they were doing, be it smoking hash, having a picnic or any other activity someone might do in the woods. However, these 2 "can't remember"? Anyone with 3 brain cells knows that they lied about that. So the question is - WHY did they have to lie? Those 2 were involved in some way in this, even if it's only as far as hearing something or seeing something.

It's also very strange that the killer manages to disappear off the face of the Earth, but at 5.15pm there was a moped parked right next to where the murder took place. How coincidental that there just happens to be a means of escape sitting there at exactly 5.15pm without risking walking anywhere to get away. A means of escape which Police were never able to examine because it was disposed of in a hurry. If F and D were up there having a picnic, what's the hurry to get rid of the moped before the Police seized it? Lothian Police made a pigs ear of this case allowing the crime scene to be contaminated and failing to properly investigate other potential suspects.

[William Wallace]

more observations and questions.
1) I’ve just walked back from the Doctors in a built up residential part of a town which has around 80,000 inhabitants at 2pm on a dry bright day.  I passed 2 people on the pavement on my 10 minute walk. 
2) If it would have been impossible to not be seen leaving the scene of the crime covered in blood then why was no one seen leaving the scene of the crime covered in blood?
3) if bleach had been used at the scene of the crime to put off the trained police dogs then how was it that Mitchell’s amateur cadaver hound was able to instantly detect the presence of a corpse when passing the scene?

1. Streets are often quiet. People use RD Path for jogging, cycling,walking dogs etc.
2. I answered this one in the other post above.
3. The bleach was discovered about 10 days after the murder. It was not where the body was found. Bleach is known to prevent dogs picking up the scent of blood. It suggests somebody bleached the ground where the murder took place then dragged the body up beside the V. This is 100% certain because almost no blood was found under the victim's body. That is scientifically impossible - so the body was moved to the V from somewhere else. It may have only been moved a short distance, but no blood under the body proves conclusively it had been moved.

[Venturi Swirl]

I'm not defensive at all. I'm just pointing out that some people may find such terminology offensive. Let's not dwell on that.

The time it took him is not really key, whether it was 20m ambling or 10 minutes walking fast does not alter the fact that he allegedly walked the full length of that path and was seen by nobody. I'm not going to try and convince you how unlikely that was. Why don't you try it at the end of June on a sunny dry day and see if you can go unseen from one end to the other? As I said, I've done it, more than once actually and both times I was seen by at least several people.

There's a very obvious reason why nobody came forward that saw anyone leaving the murder scene covered in blood, because that person did not leave by walking on Roan's Dyke Path because of the risk of being seen. Why would there be 2 people up that path at the V at 5.15pm the alleged time of the murder, that seemed to develop amnesia in Court regarding what they were doing? All they said in Court was that they didn't remember what they were doing, now not even the "Mitchell Did It Brigade" can possibly argue that is even remotely believable. If they weren't trying to hide something, they would remember what they were doing, be it smoking hash, having a picnic or any other activity someone might do in the woods. However, these 2 "can't remember"? Anyone with 3 brain cells knows that they lied about that. So the question is - WHY did they have to lie? Those 2 were involved in some way in this, even if it's only as far as hearing something or seeing something.

It's also very strange that the killer manages to disappear off the face of the Earth, but at 5.15pm there was a moped parked right next to where the murder took place. How coincidental that there just happens to be a means of escape sitting there at exactly 5.15pm without risking walking anywhere to get away. A means of escape which Police were never able to examine because it was disposed of in a hurry. If F and D were up there having a picnic, what's the hurry to get rid of the moped before the Police seized it? Lothian Police made a pigs ear of this case allowing the crime scene to be contaminated and failing to properly investigate other potential suspects.

so is it your view that two people were involved in Jodi’s murder?  Are the two people you mention by initial the same people as the moped rider(s)?  Sorry, I find the use of initials and nicknames confusing and tend to switch off when they are dragged into the discussion.  What’s your opinion on his / their motive for the murder?

[Venturi Swirl]

1. Streets are often quiet. People use RD Path for jogging, cycling,walking dogs etc.
2. I answered this one in the other post above.
3. The bleach was discovered about 10 days after the murder. It was not where the body was found. Bleach is known to prevent dogs picking up the scent of blood. It suggests somebody bleached the ground where the murder took place then dragged the body up beside the V. This is 100% certain because almost no blood was found under the victim's body. That is scientifically impossible - so the body was moved to the V from somewhere else. It may have only been moved a short distance, but no blood under the body proves conclusively it had been moved.

re: your answer to the bleach - when are suggesting this was used to clean up the scene? 

[KenMair]

If F and D were up there having a picnic, what's the hurry to get rid of the moped before the Police seized it? Lothian Police made a pigs ear of this case allowing the crime scene to be contaminated and failing to properly investigate other potential suspects.

They were chased from the Toolhire place after it closed at 5pm. The drove up the path stalling several times before getting it going and heading home. No one witnessed them on the path and they admitted the bike was against the wall at one point (not the exact V). The bike was unreliable and taken to Melrose scrapyard shortly after where it lay for weeks before being collected by the main metal merchant.

Anyone trying to hide DNA etc would have doused it in petrol, not left it out in a scrapyard for weeks. Just 2 lads mucking about on a moped, nothing more. You seem to be following the SL/SF magic carpet theory with the blood soaked killer being whisked away. Do you really think the killer would rely on a clapped out stalling moped to make a getaway or the simplest explanation that he was already on the woodside of RDP and didn't need to return to the main path at all.

If you are implicating the moped lads, why were they at the Toolhire place in full view? Were they then summoned by your killer asking for a lift home? Why would your killer need a lift on a moped if he could walk?