Author Topic: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.  (Read 14099 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2023, 12:51:17 PM »
If the prosecutors in that area agree that there's enough evidence to charge him.

Witnesses in The Child Abuse Cases and a Police Arrest.  That will do for starters.

Offline Brietta

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2023, 12:53:22 PM »
I understand that this is a possibility, but what governs The Jurisdiction?  And what was legally wrong with the current Jurisdiction?

Under normal circumstances there is no difficulty in establishing where a person is resident or has been resident.  That is not the case with Brueckner or anyone else who has reason to keep a low profile as far as whereabouts are concerned.

For example Brueckner did not disclose that he was in residence in the cottage in Luz which he asked his mates to clear out and trash as if it had been burglarised when he was doing time for the fuel theft.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2023, 12:57:49 PM »
Under normal circumstances there is no difficulty in establishing where a person is resident or has been resident.  That is not the case with Brueckner or anyone else who has reason to keep a low profile as far as whereabouts are concerned.

For example Brueckner did not disclose that he was in residence in the cottage in Luz which he asked his mates to clear out and trash as if it had been burglarised when he was doing time for the fuel theft.
Good point..it may well Wolters has acted in.good faith and been caugjt out by information CB hasn't mentioned before


Offline Brietta

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2023, 01:16:32 PM »
Just in.
https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/04/21/exclusive-maddie-suspect-sex-crimes-trial-will-still-go-ahead/

So the outlook is not as dismal as it appeared although it is proof positive of Germany's firm commitment to upholding everyone's human rights.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Venturi Swirl

"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2023, 01:57:29 PM »
So the outlook is not as dismal as it appeared although it is proof positive of Germany's firm commitment to upholding everyone's human rights.

The Mail misrepresented it... it isnt Germany that doesnt have jurisdiction its Braunschweig which doesnt have it. It will all be sorted once the courts happy with which area of Germany has jurisdiction. ...and if the evidence satisfies taht prosecutor it will go ahead. Interesting that FF is trying every trick in the book to keep his client out of court.


Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2023, 03:53:24 PM »
The Mail misrepresented it... it isnt Germany that doesnt have jurisdiction its Braunschweig which doesnt have it. It will all be sorted once the courts happy with which area of Germany has jurisdiction. ...and if the evidence satisfies taht prosecutor it will go ahead. Interesting that FF is trying every trick in the book to keep his client out of court.
Yes, I wonder why Bruckner's cast iron alibi wasn't enough...?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Eleanor

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2023, 04:21:08 PM »

I have it in my mind that Brueckner will refuse to offer a Plea.  I seem to remember that we discussed this some time ago, but maybe not.  I'm just not sure.

That would have it's own implications.

Offline Eleanor

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2023, 04:23:24 PM »
Yes, I wonder why Bruckner's cast iron alibi wasn't enough...?

Whatever happened to Mark Williams Thomas?  We never did hear the end to his meanderings on The Alibi.

Offline Myster

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2023, 04:57:01 PM »
Whatever happened to Mark Williams Thomas?  We never did hear the end to his meanderings on The Alibi.
He's forever rabbiting on about woke, walked and wandered even though Clarence, on behalf of the McCanns, has thoroughly rubbished it.  And despite claiming he knows everything about the case, still can't get basic facts right, such as Kate being a trained and practising anaesthetist before deciding to become a GP...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjxQjtNJuWQ
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2023, 05:50:36 PM »
thanks but its behind a paywall... could you give an account of what it says
EXCLUSIVE: Madeleine McCann suspect sex crimes trial will STILL go ahead
21 Apr, 2023 @ 13:06
A SEX offences trial of Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner in Germany has not been cancelled.

Despite global headlines to the contrary yesterday, a date had not yet been set for a hearing of the five charges that were levelled at the convicted paedophile, 46, in October last year.

The chief prosecutor in the case has told the Olive Press it is ‘merely an issue of jurisdiction’ and the trial will ‘certainly’ still go ahead.

Hans Christian Wolters confirmed there was ‘no reason to speculate’ and ‘nothing has changed’ after Braunschweig Landgericht, or the city’s lower court, provisionally passed the case over to the region of Magdeburg.

“And in terms of the Maddie case, for now, nothing will change as a result of the decision and we are continuing to investigate it,” he added.

Jon Clarke With German Prosecutor Wolters.
Jon Clarke with German Prosecutor Wolters
In fact, police sources in Germany, told the Olive Press the case against Brueckner abducting and killing the British toddler in Praia da Luz, in May 2007, is ‘stronger than ever’.

And meanwhile, new evidence has emerged over the five sex charges, three rapes and two child abuse cases, all in Portugal, between 1999 and 2017.

Hazel
HORRIFIED: Rape victim Hazel Behan copyright Olive Press Spain
In particular, in the vicious rape of Irish woman, Hazel Behan, on the Algarve, in 2004, a new ‘key witness’ has recently come forward, the Olive Press can reveal.

The technicality, which will merely slow down the prosecution ‘between two and five months’, came about after Brueckner’s lawyer, Friedrich Fulscher, insisted the Braunschweig court had no jurisdiction over the case, as his client’s last address was near Magdeburg, 100km away.

However, as Wolters explained, this was a deserted box factory, in the village of Neuwegersleben, that had no running water, electricity or sewage.

Under German law you cannot be registered permanently at such an address and he will appeal the decision to Braunschweig’s upper court next week.

Failing that he will argue his case at Germany’s BGH High Court, which he would be ‘confident of winning’ as it has already made similar rulings on jurisdiction cases.

He is certain the sex offender was living on and off in Braunschweig since 2013 and had various addresses, plus an official PO Box there.

He has also been tried and convicted of the rape of a 70-year-old American pensioner, in Portugal, in 2005, at Braunschweig court, for which he is serving a seven-year prison sentence.

Christian Brueckner And Maddie
Christian Brueckner and Madeliene McCann
“It is logical that he be tried for all sex crimes in Braunschweig then,” explained a police source. “However, it doesn’t matter where the case is tried, the evidence has been uncovered and compiled from the BKA police headquarters in Wiesbaden.

“That evidence is stronger than ever and, if needs be, Braunschweig will send two of their prosecution team to Magdeburg to get the court there up to speed.

“Brueckner will still face these heinous crimes for which there is lots of very strong evidence, particularly, in the case of Hazel.”

Behan, a mother-of-two, now based near Dublin, told the Olive Press today she was initially ‘horrified’ the case would be dropped, but ‘has faith’ in the German police that the prosecution will continue.

“When I was called yesterday saying the trial had been dropped and asking how I felt, I was horrified. It came out of the blue and I couldn’t understand why neither my lawyer nor the police had notified me first.

“I now understand from my solicitor in Germany this is just a way for Brueckner’s team to slow down proceedings and it is merely a technicality.

“Thankfully I am still looking forward to facing this evil man in court and seeing justice finally done,” she added. “I hope this is sooner than later.”

The further crimes for which he was formally charged last year were the violent rape of a teenager and another older woman, in Praia da Luz, between 1999 and 2006 and the groping of a 10-year-old girl on a beach in 2007, plus exposing himself to four children in 2017 in a playground.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Brietta

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2023, 05:52:19 PM »
thanks but its behind a paywall... could you give an account of what it says

Hopes this makes some sense ~

Precis of the Olive Press article

Jon Clarke affirms that the chief prosecutor in the case says the only issue is jurisdiction and the trial will certainly go ahead.  A date has not yet been set for hearing the five cases.

The Braunschweig Landgericht which is the city's lower court has provisionally passed the case to Magdeburg.

There is no change to Madeleine’s case which is still under investigation and police sources have said is stronger than ever as a result of new evidence.

There is new information in Hazel’s case from a witness.

The residence claimed for Brueckner cannot be registered permanently at such an address for habitation under German law as it has no running water, electricity or sewage.

If necessary HCW will argue the case at Germany’s BGH High Court with confidence due to precedent.

He is confident of Brueckner’s presence in Braunschweg at various addresses including an official PO Box.

There is no problem about where the case is tried as the BKA headquarters in Wiesbaden have everything under control and the evidence is stronger than ever.

Hazel has confirmed that her German solicitor reassured her that it is a stalling action using a technicality to slow things down.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Anthro

Re: German court rules prosecutor no jurisdiction in Madeleine McCann case.
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2023, 06:52:50 PM »
thanks but its behind a paywall... could you give an account of what it says

Despite global headlines to the contrary yesterday, a date had not yet been set for a hearing of the five charges that were levelled at the convicted pedophile, 46, in October last year. The chief prosecutor in the case has told the Olive Press it is 'merely an issue of jurisdiction' and the trial will 'certainly' still go ahead. Hans Christian Wolters confirmed there was 'no reason to speculate' and 'nothing has changed' after Braunschweig Landgericht, or the city's lower court, provisionally passed the case over to the region of Magdeburg.
"And in terms of the Maddie case, for now, nothing will change as a result of the decision and we are continuing to investigate it," he added. In particular, in the vicious rape of Irish woman, Hazel Behan, on the Algarve, in 2004, a new 'key witness' has recently come forward, the Olive Press can reveal. The technicality, which will merely slow down the prosecution 'between two and five months', came about after Brueckner's lawyer, Friedrich Fulscher, insisted the Braunschweig court had no jurisdiction over the case, as his client's last address was near Magdeburg, 100km away. However, as Wolters explained, this was a deserted box factory, in the village of Neuwegersleben, that had no running water, electricity or sewage.
Under German law you cannot be registered permanently at such an address and he will appeal the decision to Braunschweig's upper court next week. Failing that he will argue his case at Germany's BGH High Court, which he would be ‘confident of winning' as it has already made similar rulings on jurisdiction cases. He is certain the sex offender was living on and off in Braunschweig since 2013 and had various addresses, plus an official PO Box there. He has also been tried and convicted of the rape of a 70-year-old American pensioner, in Portugal, in 2005, at Braunschweig court, for which he is serving a seven-year prison sentence. "It is logical that he be tried for all sex crimes in Braunschweig then," explained a police source. "However, it doesn't matter where the case is tried, the evidence has been uncovered and compiled from the BKA police headquarters in Wiesbaden. “That evidence is stronger than ever and, if needs be, Braunschweig will send two of their prosecution team to Magdeburg to get the court there up to speed. “Brueckner will still face these heinous crimes for which there is lots of very strong evidence, particularly, in the case of Hazel Behan, a mother-of-two, now based near Dublin, told the Olive Press today she was initially 'horrified' the case would be dropped, but 'has faith' in the German police that
the prosecution will continue. “When I was called yesterday saying the trial had been dropped and asking how I felt, I was horrified. It came out of the blue and I couldn't understand why neither my lawyer nor the police had notified me first. “I now understand from my solicitor in Germany this is just a way for Brueckner's team
to slow down proceedings and it is merely a technicality. “Thankfully I am still looking forward to facing this evil man in court and seeing justice finally done," she added. "I hope this is sooner than later." The further crimes for which he was formally charged last year were the violent rape of a teenager and another older woman, in Praia da Luz, between 1999 and 2006 and the groping of a 10-year-old girl on a beach in 2007, plus exposing himself to four children in 2017 in a playground.