UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: faithlilly on July 03, 2018, 11:06:12 AM
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I asked this question on another thread but thought it might be interesting to give it a thread of its own.
When Olegario de Sousa said the McCanns were not suspects back in 2007 he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on. Can members think of any reason why the SY/PJ may not be keeping their powder dry in the same way ?
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I asked this question on another thread but thought it might be interesting to give it a thread of its own.
When Olegario de Sousa said the McCanns were not suspects back in 2007 he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on. Can members think of any reason why the SY/PJ may not be keeping their powder dry in the same way ?
According to Amaral in this video its more about politics - than what happened to maddie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO3euD3Pz14
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Not sure about keeping the powder dry... I think it will have gone off by now
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I asked this question on another thread but thought it might be interesting to give it a thread of its own.
When Olegario de Sousa said the McCanns were not suspects back in 2007 he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on. Can members think of any reason why the SY/PJ may not be keeping their powder dry in the same way ?
If the McCanns are suspects in your view, have they always been suspects? If they are the PJ's only suspects why have they not been recalled for further questioning? What are both police teams waiting for, exactly? If the McCanns were both forces' only suspects the case would have been shelved again years ago, as they clearly have still not amassed any evidence against them. Otherwise, what exactly are they waiting for or working on? Finding a body would prove nothing. There is no CCTV. Forensics might never prove anything decisive. Only a full and frank confession by one or more involved parties. If anyone had cracked so far then the McCanns would have been hauled in for questioning - have they? Do you believe they have despite the complete lack of evidence that they have? ALL IMO.
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"When Olegario de Sousa said the McCanns were not suspects back in 2007 he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on."
Without a cite in support of that sentence in the opening post it is my opinion this thread is untenable.
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Sousa didn't give anything away even when everyone knew who the new suspects were lol.
McCann was questioned by police for more than 15 hours on Thursday and Friday and left the police station on Friday as her husband, Gerry, entered to be interviewed separately.
“Kate knows it’s possible that she could get arrested,” Justine McGuinness, a spokeswoman for the McCanns, said before the police announcement.
Police would give no name, in accordance with Portuguese secrecy laws, but friends of the McCanns had earlier said Kate McCann was about to become a suspect.
“All I can say is there is another formal suspect,” police spokesman Olegario de Sousa told Reuters. “We always said new suspects or witnesses could come up, so this is nothing unusual.”
https://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-29392520070907
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"When Olegario de Sousa said the McCanns were not suspects back in 2007 he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on."
Without a cite in support of that sentence in the opening post it is my opinion this thread is untenable.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-top-cop-inisists-mccanns-are-victims-not-suspects-6609911.html
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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-top-cop-inisists-mccanns-are-victims-not-suspects-6609911.html
Did the McCanns win the case against "Tal & Qual"?
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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-top-cop-inisists-mccanns-are-victims-not-suspects-6609911.html
Disingenuous to say the least ... where exactly does your cite say "he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on"
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Disingenuous to say the least ... where exactly does your cite say "he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on"
Are you really saying that by the time of this statement everyone involved in the investigation wasn’t aware that the McCanns were ‘in the frame’ ?
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Are you really saying that by the time of this statement everyone involved in the investigation wasn’t aware that the McCanns were ‘in the frame’ ?
It depends as to who else was 'in the frame'.
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Did the McCanns win the case against "Tal & Qual"?
it went bust
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it went bust
That is a major victory then IMO.
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Are you really saying that by the time of this statement everyone involved in the investigation wasn’t aware that the McCanns were ‘in the frame’ ?
I am saying that you have started a thread for which you are incapable of providing a cite. Which by my reckoning makes it your opinion and nothing at all to do with the facts this forum expects and demands.
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the mccanns were made suspects because the uk police sent in two dogs...two dogs who the pj understood had solved 200 cases and never been wrong...dogs who confirmed that a cadaver ahd been in 5a and discovered maddies blood in 5a and the mccanns hire car...based on this evidence the mccanns were made suspects...The archiving report conceded that none of this evidence was eventually confirmed...so there is no evidence against the mccans and they are not suspects....of course if new evidence came to light that could change,....but does not seem likely
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I am saying that you have started a thread for which you are incapable of providing a cite. Which by my reckoning makes it your opinion and nothing at all to do with the facts this forum expects and demands.
I’m not sure why you think I haven’t provided a cite. It is obvious that at least from the beginning of August the McCanns were being investigated so when the statement quoted was made OS knew that.
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I’m not sure why you think I haven’t provided a cite. It is obvious that at least from the beginning of August that the McCanns were being investigated so when the statement quoted was made OS knew that.
its also obvious the investigation had problems distinguishing their A from their E
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its also obvious the investigation had problems distinguishing their A from their E
Im not discussing the competence of the investigation but whether at one point the McCanns were being investigated but the official spokesperson denied they were suspects.
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That is a major victory then IMO.
Or not as the case maybe.
"This week the couple, from Rothley, Leics, withdrew their defamation action after being advised that the newspaper had a strong defence under Portuguese law.
It could argue the story was published in good faith because senior police officers did at the time believe the McCanns may have been implicated in the case."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/6057918/McCanns-drop-libel-case-against-Portuguese-newspaper.html
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Or not as the case maybe.
"This week the couple, from Rothley, Leics, withdrew their defamation action after being advised that the newspaper had a strong defence under Portuguese law.
It could argue the story was published in good faith because senior police officers did at the time believe the McCanns may have been implicated in the case."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/6057918/McCanns-drop-libel-case-against-Portuguese-newspaper.html
Yes, it was true.
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Yes, it was true.
Have you read the, article you have quoted..
The claim was dropped for a number of reasons... Firstly the paper went bust
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Have you read the, article you have quoted..
The claim was dropped for a number of reasons... Firstly the paper went bust
But the McCanns were under suspicion.
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But the McCanns were under suspicion.
I'm not allowed to answer
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Have you read the, article you have quoted..
The claim was dropped for a number of reasons... Firstly the paper went bust
They could have pursued the author.
What they did according to the article was:
"A source close to the couple confirmed that the defamation action against the newspaper and two journalists had been dropped.
The source said the McCanns want to concentrate instead on their £1 million case against Goncalo Amaral, the former head of the Madeleine investigation".
Well that didn't pan out too well did it?
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I'm not allowed to answer
Not sure what you’d say. It is true.
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Not sure what you’d say. It is true.
If the McCanns are truly the only suspects in this case, why hasn’t the case been shelved again due to lack of evidence?
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Or not as the case maybe.
"This week the couple, from Rothley, Leics, withdrew their defamation action after being advised that the newspaper had a strong defence under Portuguese law".
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/6057918/McCanns-drop-libel-case-against-Portuguese-newspaper.html
That article is 2 years later. The paper has still gone bust and they are looking to sue Amaral at that stage.
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But the McCanns were under suspicion.
One part of the PJ informing the paper that the McCanns were under suspicion ( the reason for the strong defence) and the Inspector Olegario de Sousa making a claim the McCanns were not suspects. Two answers to the one issue. One must be an error.
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I am saying that you have started a thread for which you are incapable of providing a cite. Which by my reckoning makes it your opinion and nothing at all to do with the facts this forum expects and demands.
Are you seriously trying to claim they were not suspects in August 2007 and Sousa didn't know about it?
Why do you think they took their hire car away in August and returned it missing a part?
Why did they take their clothes away to examine?
Why do you think they were told, 'Next time we meet it will be across the table'?
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Are you seriously trying to claim they were not suspects in August 2007 and Sousa didn't know about it?
Why do you think they took their hire car away in August and returned it missing a part?
Why did they take their clothes away to examine?
Why do you think they were told, 'Next time we meet it will be across the table'?
Her posts puzzled me too.
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Are you seriously trying to claim they were not suspects in August 2007 and Sousa didn't know about it?
Why do you think they took their hire car away in August and returned it missing a part?
Why did they take their clothes away to examine?
Why do you think they were told, 'Next time we meet it will be across the table'?
Has anything similar to this happened this time round?
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Has anything similar to this happened this time round?
Dunno as they haven't revealed the last line of inquiry which has been going on a while now!
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Dunno as they haven't revealed the last line of inquiry which has been going on a while now!
Well think about it. What possible evidence could there be left to find to link the McCanns to the disappearance of their daughter, that could be impounded by the police for forensic checks?
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Well think about it. What possible evidence could there be left to find to link the McCanns to the disappearance of their daughter, that could be impounded by the police for forensic checks?
A cadaver like the one Redwood tried to find in Praia da Luz before he retired.
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I asked this question on another thread but thought it might be interesting to give it a thread of its own.
When Olegario de Sousa said the McCanns were not suspects back in 2007 he knew it wasn’t true and that the couple were precisely who the investigation was focusing on. Can members think of any reason why the SY/PJ may not be keeping their powder dry in the same way ?
I always take anything we hear publicly from the police with a large pinch of salt. Believe me when I tell you that the police are great liars when it suits.
As for Olegario de Sousa, he was undoubtedly playing games when he made those comments.
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A cadaver like the one Redwood tried to find in Praia da Luz before he retired.
And what possible forensic evidence could that yield to prove the McCanns hid the body?
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And what possible forensic evidence could that yield to prove the McCanns hid the body?
Determining the cause of death will inevitably open up further avenues for investigation.
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You had me thinking a body has been found!
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I always take anything we hear publicly from the police with a large pinch of salt. Believe me when I tell you that the police are great liars when it suits.
As for Olegario de Sousa, he was undoubtedly playing games when he made those comments.
So now we should treat every statement by every police officer as unreliable...is that it... So what is the point in quoting any police officer
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Determining the cause of death will inevitably open up further avenues for investigation.
Obviously if any new evidence comes to light the McCann's could be made suspects but I feel it's perfectly reasonable to believe at present they are not suspects and not involved... And that there is no evidence to suggest they are
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It’s time for some people to face facts - the police are not wasting time and resources focusing on the McCanns. If the McCanns were their only suspects then there is nothing the police can practically do to further their case against them, and like the first time round they would have had no option but to shelve the case once again, which would have happened some time ago. IMO.
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It’s time for some people to face facts - the police are not wasting time and resources focusing on the McCanns. If the McCanns were their only suspects then there is nothing the police can practically do to further their case against them, and like the first time round they would have had no option but to shelve the case once again, which would have happened some time ago. IMO.
I found that ambiguous.
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I found that ambiguous.
Why?
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Why?
Well is it just me then. "It’s time for some people to face facts - the police are not wasting time and resources focusing on the McCanns. If the McCanns were their only suspects then there is nothing the police can practically do to further their case against them, and like the first time round they would have had no option but to shelve the case once again, which would have happened some time ago. IMO."
This was the tricky bit for me "- the police are not wasting time and resources focusing on the McCanns." I find that can give two meanings.
1. Supporter view: "The police are not wasting time and resources, as they would, if they focused on the McCanns.
2. Or the sceptic view "The police are not wasting time and resources if they would focus on the McCanns."
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If any one of the tapas friends had decided to reveal what they know for immunity from prosecution that would certain open up the case.
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Well is it just me then. "It’s time for some people to face facts - the police are not wasting time and resources focusing on the McCanns. If the McCanns were their only suspects then there is nothing the police can practically do to further their case against them, and like the first time round they would have had no option but to shelve the case once again, which would have happened some time ago. IMO."
This was the tricky bit for me "- the police are not wasting time and resources focusing on the McCanns." I find that can give two meanings.
1. Supporter view: "The police are not wasting time and resources, as they would, if they focused on the McCanns.
2. Or the sceptic view "The police are not wasting time and resources if they would focus on the McCanns."
I understand. My point is that there is nothing left to investigate as far as the McCanns involvement is concerned. No forensics, no CCTV, no witnesses to the deed to what (little) there was in 2007. If the Mcacanns truly are the prime suspects what have both police forces been doing for the last 5 years and what have they been spending millions on?
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We have been told in the past by Rowley that a burglary gone wrong hasn’t been ruled out. What have SY/PJ been doing for 5 years if it was a simple burglary gone wrong ? Or if a lone, opportunist paedophile was the perpetrator? What investigative opportunities would take 5 years to follow up ? And the input of the CPS in a case were Portugal has primacy. What is that all about ?
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We have been told in the past by Rowley that a burglary gone wrong hasn’t been ruled out. What have SY/PJ been doing for 5 years if it was a simple burglary gone wrong ? Or if a lone, opportunist paedophile was the perpetrator? What investigative opportunities would take 5 years to follow up ? And the input of the CPS in a case were Portugal has primacy. What is that all about ?
Well for a start they made a bunch of suspected burglars arguidos and questioned them presumably. Have they made the McCanns arguidos recently, or questioned them about what their mate told them when he or she grassed them up, allegedly?
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In my theory the Tapas 7 have told SY what happened, but that would only explain why Madeleine left the building and it doesn't explain why she has NOT been found.
Mark Rowley said something like "However Madeleine left the apartment she was abducted", which basically means "we know why she left the building but we don't know who abducted her" IMO.
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I assume it would be easy to make Portuguese nationals living in Portugal arguidos. Not so easy British nationals living in the UK. Perhaps that’s why the input of the CPS was needed.
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I assume it would be easy to make Portuguese nationals living in Portugal arguidos. Not so easy British nationals living in the UK. Perhaps that’s why the input of the CPS was needed.
And when did that happen, and why haven't they been successful in reconstituting the McCanns as arguidos? In any case, if a British national informs the police that another British national has been involved in fraudulent activity involving the disposal of another British national abroad are you telling me the police in this country are powerless to arrest said suspect and question him in this country?
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What type of abduction do members think it would take investigative work by 2 police forces over 7 years and counting to unravel ?
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What type of abduction do members think it would take investigative work by 2 police forces over 7 years and counting to unravel ?
Why don't you list the different types of abduction and we'll tell you what we think.
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What type of abduction do members think it would take investigative work by 2 police forces over 7 years and counting to unravel ?
A stranger abduction... It's much easier to solve if family or friends are involved
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A stranger abduction... It's much easier to solve if family or friends are involved
Especially when the early investigation has gone off in the wrong direction.
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I assume it would be easy to make Portuguese nationals living in Portugal arguidos. Not so easy British nationals living in the UK. Perhaps that’s why the input of the CPS was needed.
I think you may well have hit the nail right on the head there.
There were many suspects who had not been interviewed and many persons of interest who had not been interviewed.
Assuring as the thread title acclaims ... 'The McCanns are Not Suspects'
CPS lawyers travel to Portugal to explore Madeleine McCann leads
Senior prosecutors have travelled to Portugal to explore new leads in the Madeleine McCann case amid speculation that Scotland Yard is about to open a new investigation into the child’s disappearance.
By Victoria Ward7:33PM BST 21 Jun 2013
Alison Saunders, London's chief crown prosecutor, and her deputy Jenny Hopkins, head of the complex casework unit, discussed the inquiry with their Portuguese counterparts.
It is the first time CPS lawyers have visited the country in connection with the Yard’s £5 million review of the case.
A CPS spokesman confirmed that prosecutors had travelled to Portugal with officers from the Metropolitan Police “to discuss possible next steps”.
The two-year review has identified several potential suspects who have not been interviewed and detectives have indicated that they need to be questioned in order to be eliminated or pursued further.
More than 20 people "of interest", including Britons, have been uncovered. They also include known child offenders who were in the Algarve at the time Madeleine disappeared in May 2007.
Theresa May, the Home Secretary, has agreed to fund a new full-scale investigation and an announcement is expected within the next few weeks.
A new inquiry would allow police to interview suspects in Britain, although they would seek the assistance of the Portuguese to carry out investigations there.
Kate and Gerry McCann’s spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said they would not comment publicly while the review, code-named Operation Grange, continues.
"They remain grateful, however, to the UK authorities for the work being done to establish what happened to Madeleine and to bring those responsible for her abduction to justice,” he said.
The Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine’s disappearance was shelved in 2008 amid fierce criticism.
Operation Grange, conducted by Scotland Yard's Homicide & Serious Crime Command, was launched in May 2011 following a campaign by the McCann family.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, who is leading the police review, said last year that his team had identified 195 potential leads.
Scotland Yard also published an age-enhanced image of what Madeleine might look like today, aged nine, saying it had uncovered new information to suggest she could still be alive and living with her abductor.
Last month, Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell, the head of Scotland Yard's homicide and serious crime command, confirmed that they had identified "both investigative and forensic opportunities".
Officials in Portugal insist that, under their laws, the case can only be reopened if there is new concrete evidence but British investigators are confident that their new leads could provide a breakthrough.
As they marked the sixth anniversary of their daughter’s disappearance last month, Mr and Mrs McCann said they were encouraged by Operation Grange and that the police seemed "more determined than ever".
The couple's hopes were further reinforced by the recent discovery of Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight in Ohio, a decade after they went missing in separate incidents.
The McCanns said the rescue of the women "'reaffirmed" their hope of finding Madeleine, which has never diminished.
Madeleine, who was then nearly four, disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 2007, as her parents dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10135847/CPS-lawyers-travel-to-Portugal-to-explore-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html
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I think you may well have hit the nail right on the head there.
There were many suspects who had not been interviewed and many persons of interest who had not been interviewed.
Assuring as the thread title acclaims ... 'The McCanns are Not Suspects'
CPS lawyers travel to Portugal to explore Madeleine McCann leads
Senior prosecutors have travelled to Portugal to explore new leads in the Madeleine McCann case amid speculation that Scotland Yard is about to open a new investigation into the child’s disappearance.
By Victoria Ward7:33PM BST 21 Jun 2013
Alison Saunders, London's chief crown prosecutor, and her deputy Jenny Hopkins, head of the complex casework unit, discussed the inquiry with their Portuguese counterparts.
It is the first time CPS lawyers have visited the country in connection with the Yard’s £5 million review of the case.
A CPS spokesman confirmed that prosecutors had travelled to Portugal with officers from the Metropolitan Police “to discuss possible next steps”.
The two-year review has identified several potential suspects who have not been interviewed and detectives have indicated that they need to be questioned in order to be eliminated or pursued further.
More than 20 people "of interest", including Britons, have been uncovered. They also include known child offenders who were in the Algarve at the time Madeleine disappeared in May 2007.
Theresa May, the Home Secretary, has agreed to fund a new full-scale investigation and an announcement is expected within the next few weeks.
A new inquiry would allow police to interview suspects in Britain, although they would seek the assistance of the Portuguese to carry out investigations there.
Kate and Gerry McCann’s spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said they would not comment publicly while the review, code-named Operation Grange, continues.
"They remain grateful, however, to the UK authorities for the work being done to establish what happened to Madeleine and to bring those responsible for her abduction to justice,” he said.
The Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine’s disappearance was shelved in 2008 amid fierce criticism.
Operation Grange, conducted by Scotland Yard's Homicide & Serious Crime Command, was launched in May 2011 following a campaign by the McCann family.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, who is leading the police review, said last year that his team had identified 195 potential leads.
Scotland Yard also published an age-enhanced image of what Madeleine might look like today, aged nine, saying it had uncovered new information to suggest she could still be alive and living with her abductor.
Last month, Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell, the head of Scotland Yard's homicide and serious crime command, confirmed that they had identified "both investigative and forensic opportunities".
Officials in Portugal insist that, under their laws, the case can only be reopened if there is new concrete evidence but British investigators are confident that their new leads could provide a breakthrough.
As they marked the sixth anniversary of their daughter’s disappearance last month, Mr and Mrs McCann said they were encouraged by Operation Grange and that the police seemed "more determined than ever".
The couple's hopes were further reinforced by the recent discovery of Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight in Ohio, a decade after they went missing in separate incidents.
The McCanns said the rescue of the women "'reaffirmed" their hope of finding Madeleine, which has never diminished.
Madeleine, who was then nearly four, disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 2007, as her parents dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10135847/CPS-lawyers-travel-to-Portugal-to-explore-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html
Over 5 years ago.
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Over 5 years ago.
Have the CPS been over there more recently then?
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Over 5 years ago.
And no named sources. If the information regarding the reasons for the CPS visiting Portugal are true then someone is leaking like a sieve.
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And no named sources. If the information regarding the reasons for the CPS visiting Portugal are true then someone is leaking like a sieve.
It wouldn’t be the first time.
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Over 5 years ago.
Uh huh ... which is precisely why I am so puzzled about why Faithlilly keeps raising it ... didn't she start a thread about it too?
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Uh huh ... which is precisely why I am so puzzled about why Faithlilly keeps raising it ... didn't she start a thread about it too?
It’s to do with certain supporters clinging to the “SY/PG said” and discussing whether it is still the case. I have lost count of the number of “final” leads that have been mentioned over the last few years. They appear to be reexamining all the reports that had been discounted and ending up at the same conclusions.
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It’s to do with certain supporters clinging to the “SY/PG said” and discussing whether it is still the case. I have lost count of the number of “final” leads that have been mentioned over the last few years. They appear to be reexamining all the reports that had been discounted and ending up at the same conclusions.
exactly nothing has changed in 5 years and i doubt it will
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It’s to do with certain supporters clinging to the “SY/PG said” and discussing whether it is still the case. I have lost count of the number of “final” leads that have been mentioned over the last few years. They appear to be reexamining all the reports that had been discounted and ending up at the same conclusions.
I don't think supporters are clinging to anything... More sceptics clinging to their belief that somehow the McCanns are, still under suspicion when there is nothing to support it...
I dint find anything strange in believing SY and the PJ are being truthful when everything else supports that view ..
And you do not know exactly what SY are investigating
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It’s to do with certain supporters clinging to the “SY/PG said” and discussing whether it is still the case. I have lost count of the number of “final” leads that have been mentioned over the last few years. They appear to be reexamining all the reports that had been discounted and ending up at the same conclusions.
That seems to be the way that the Portuguese police appear to operate don't you know. Even the information given to the public that Madeleine's case was to be reopened was announced via a press release;
Quote
Portuguese police have reopened the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, according to an announcement by the Public Prosecutor’s office.
A press statement revealed that “new elements of evidence” which were presented by the PJ police justified the "continuation of the investigation". The case had been closed by Portuguese police in 2008 - a year after Madeleine McCann disappeared from the tourist complex in Praia da Luz where her family was spending their vacation."
http://portugalresident.com/portuguese-police-reopen-madeleine-mccann-inquiry
No names no pack drill - and do please note from the same article ...
Quote
Media reports are stating that the request to reopen the case was made by PJ police as a result of a two-year-long investigation led by a team of detectives from Porto. It is reported that the squad of four investigators identified witnesses who had never been queried when the case was still open, and that they travelled to the Algarve on several occasions to gather evidence and carry out informal interrogations.
It is also said that the only way that these investigations could be conducted ‘on the record’ would be if the inquiry was reopened and that the police’s leads are, as British police suspect as well, based around the theory of a kidnapping.
http://portugalresident.com/portuguese-police-reopen-madeleine-mccann-inquiry
It may seem odd to us but it appears to be the Portuguese way which makes it all the more remarkable that Pedro do Carmo chose to declare (2017) that the McCanns ARE NOT SUSPECTS following on from Andy Redwood saying (2013) the same some years ago. Making the police position consistent whether you like it or not ... and to borrow on from the title of the thread ... The McCanns Are Not Suspects.
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That article is 2 years later. The paper has still gone bust and they are looking to sue Amaral at that stage.
Are you trying to tell me that the McCanns did not drop their action against T & Q?
And futher their reason for doing so was on legal advice?
Presented as to "concentrate on the action against Sr Amaral"?
And further this latter action was successful for the McCanns?
An interesting concept is all that.
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Are you trying to tell me that the McCanns did not drop their action against T & Q?
And futher their reason for doing so was on legal advice?
Presented as to "concentrate on the action against Sr Amaral"?
And further this latter action was successful for the McCanns?
An interesting concept is all that.
they certainl did drop the case ...on legal advice..as to exactly why we cannot be certain...imo. Certinly suing a bankrupt newspaper wouldnt be the wisest thing to do
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they certainl did drop the case ...on legal advice..as to exactly why we cannot be certain...imo. Certinly suing a bankrupt newspaper wouldnt be the wisest thing to do
No money in it.
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No money in it.
so the paper would not even defend the action ...so no point
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they certainl did drop the case ...on legal advice..as to exactly why we cannot be certain...imo. Certinly suing a bankrupt newspaper wouldnt be the wisest thing to do
They could have sued the author of the piece.
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They could have sued the author of the piece.
did he have any assets
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did he have any assets
Dunno. But we are lead to believe it was not about money.
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Dunno. But we are lead to believe it was not about money.
Who said it was .....if you sue someone and they have assets they can be forced to issue an apology to reduce damages... No assets..they probably don't even have to turn up at court and leave you with hefty legal bills
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they certainl did drop the case ...on legal advice..as to exactly why we cannot be certain...imo. Certinly suing a bankrupt newspaper wouldnt be the wisest thing to do
It would appear you have some of this posterior about facade.
If a writ were issued there had of necessity to be two legal persons involved [plaintiff v defendant]
ergo T & Q existed at the time any writ was issued............................ join up the dots
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Who said it was .....if you sue someone and they have assets they can be forced to issue an apology to reduce damages... No assets..they probably don't even have to turn up at court and leave you with hefty legal bills
You are struggling now.
Ifs and probablies all over the oche , meaning you don't know
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You are struggling now.
Ifs and probablies all over the oche , meaning you don't know
I'm not struggling at all... Stop posting your opinions as facts
Neither of us know
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they certainl did drop the case ...on legal advice..as to exactly why we cannot be certain...imo. Certinly suing a bankrupt newspaper wouldnt be the wisest thing to do
But,but,but what about the truth? what about people not believing they are innocent, what about their dignity and good name I mean surely you can't put a price on those things?
well... hm maybe you can!
... and there was no pickings from this skeleton. I mean they didn't even want an apology. ^*&&
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But,but,but what about the truth? what about people not believing they are innocent, what about their dignity and good name I mean surely you can't put a price on those things?
well... hm maybe you can!
... and there was no pickings from this skeleton. I mean they didn't even want an apology. ^*&&
Do we know if they asked for an apology?
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I assume it would be easy to make Portuguese nationals living in Portugal arguidos. Not so easy British nationals living in the UK. Perhaps that’s why the input of the CPS was needed.
Not sure if you mean when whoever it was from the CPS went over to Portugal or not. If so, sorting out the legal common ground / nearest equivalents would have been a key part of that meeting, iMO.
The T7 + 1 were all interviewed under caution (IIRC) via the rogs. If they'd still been in PT at that time, I've no idea whether they would have had to have had arguido status or whether it would have just been another round of interviews for clarification (i.e. not meeting the requirement for the status).
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Not sure if you mean when whoever it was from the CPS went over to Portugal or not. If so, sorting out the legal common ground / nearest equivalents would have been a key part of that meeting, iMO.
The T7 + 1 were all interviewed under caution (IIRC) via the rogs. If they'd still been in PT at that time, I've no idea whether they would have had to have had arguido status or whether it would have just been another round of interviews for clarification (i.e. not meeting the requirement for the status).
Who was the + 1? I thought they were interviewed as significant witnesses, not as suspects.
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Who was the + 1? I thought they were interviewed as significant witnesses, not as suspects.
LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE SQUAD
WITNESS TESTIMONY OF JEREMY WILKINS
Occupation:
This statement, consisting of five pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully states in it anything I know to be false or do not believe to be true.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
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Who was the + 1? I thought they were interviewed as significant witnesses, not as suspects.
I never said they were considered as suspects.
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I never said they were considered as suspects.
The rogatory interviews included a list of people so I'm not sure why you've highlighted Jes Wilkins in particular. I still believe no one was questioned under caution.
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The rogatory interviews included a list of people so I'm not sure why you've highlighted Jes Wilkins in particular. I still believe no one was questioned under caution.
If they were questioned under caution then the caution would have been recorded as part of the interview...so depends if we have the full transcript
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The rogatory interviews included a list of people so I'm not sure why you've highlighted Jes Wilkins in particular. I still believe no one was questioned under caution.
I agree.
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Not sure if you mean when whoever it was from the CPS went over to Portugal or not. If so, sorting out the legal common ground / nearest equivalents would have been a key part of that meeting, iMO.
The T7 + 1 were all interviewed under caution (IIRC) via the rogs. If they'd still been in PT at that time, I've no idea whether they would have had to have had arguido status or whether it would have just been another round of interviews for clarification (i.e. not meeting the requirement for the status).
What did you mean by "interviewed under caution"? Was that just saying they swear to tell the truth?
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And what possible forensic evidence could that yield to prove the McCanns hid the body?
A body would not just yield forensic evidence. The location would be highly significant too. The investigation could then work out who was in that place at what time ( phone records and witness statements could be re-examined) and who might have known about that place if it was somewhere remote, how did it get there? There are all kinds of possibilities for the investigation if they found a body.
On the subject of the McCanns being declared 'not suspects'. That could change, investigations don't stand still they evolve. There are plenty of cases where people were 'not suspects' and then became suspects.
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A body would not just yield forensic evidence. The location would be highly significant too. The investigation could then work out who was in that place at what time ( phone records and witness statements could be re-examined) and who might have known about that place if it was somewhere remote, how did it get there? There are all kinds of possibilities for the investigation if they found a body.
On the subject of the McCanns being declared 'not suspects'. That could change, investigations don't stand still they evolve. There are plenty of cases where people were 'not suspects' and then became suspects.
so on the present evidence teh mccanns are not suspects...which puts amarals book into perspective...obviously if new evidence comes to light things could change....thats what Ive been saying for some time
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What did you mean by "interviewed under caution"? Was that just saying they swear to tell the truth?
its a bit more than that...google explains it well..
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its a bit more than that...google explains it well..
"The interview should take place at a police station unless delay in bringing a suspect there would be damaging. A person cautioned is told: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court."
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so on the present evidence teh mccanns are not suspects...which puts amarals book into perspective...obviously if new evidence comes to light things could change....thats what Ive been saying for some time
How do you know? S.Y. are hardly going to announce if they have become suspects before they are ready to charge someone in a high profile case like this.
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How do you know? S.Y. are hardly going to announce if they have become suspects before they are ready to charge someone in a high profile case like this.
We have been through all this before.... So by your thoughts... Murat could still be in the frame... The three burglars... Just about anyone..
The PJ And SY have said the McCann's ate not suspects... The archiving report said there was no evidence of any crime by the McCann's... Themccanns don't seen to be being investigated at all... SY have spent 12 million going through the files and interviewing suspects in Portugal... The McCann's have not been interviewed under cautioun... Then we have the McCann's actions... All that tells me the McCann's are not suspects in any way.... Others can believe that both police forces are playing some bizarre game... I find that idea ridiculous
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How do you know? S.Y. are hardly going to announce if they have become suspects before they are ready to charge someone in a high profile case like this.
Why not? The PJ did just that to Murat and the McCanns in 2007. What’s changed?
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How do you know? S.Y. are hardly going to announce if they have become suspects before they are ready to charge someone in a high profile case like this.
Of course they are not.
Until the McCanns and Murat were hauled in to be questioned directly before being made arguidos we had no official confirmation that they were even suspects, in fact quite the opposite.
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Of course they are not.
Until the McCanns and Murat were hauled in to be questioned directly before being made arguidos we had no official confirmation that they were even suspects, in fact quite the opposite.
they were brought in for questioning and made arguidos because new evidence came to light...or at least they thought it had....should new evidence come to light again no doubt the same would happen
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Of course they are not.
Until the McCanns and Murat were hauled in to be questioned directly before being made arguidos we had no official confirmation that they were even suspects, in fact quite the opposite.
So the PJ announced they were suspects, why wouldn’t the Met then?
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So the PJ announced they were suspects, why wouldn’t the Met then?
Surely the Met can't announce the McCann's as suspects as it is a Portugal crime. It would be up to the Portuguese to do that.
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Surely the Met can't announce the McCann's as suspects as it is a Portugal crime. It would be up to the Portuguese to do that.
I have heard the UK police could charge a UK citizen with a crime committed in another country.
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I have heard the UK police could charge a UK citizen with a crime committed in another country.
Depends on the crime.
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Surely the Met can't announce the McCann's as suspects as it is a Portugal crime. It would be up to the Portuguese to do that.
SY could treatvthe mccans ss suspects and interview them under caution
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Surely the Met can't announce the McCann's as suspects as it is a Portugal crime. It would be up to the Portuguese to do that.
Why haven’t they then?
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Why haven’t they then?
Would you expect the police to announce who if any one is a suspect to appease the public.
There seems to be some agreement on the not naming of suspects according to this.
dated 2013
College of Policing says forces should name suspects when charged, but not when arrested
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/college-policing-says-forces-should-name-suspects-when-charged-not-when-arrested/
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Would you expect the police to announce who if any one is a suspect to appease the public.
There seems to be some agreement on the not naming of suspects according to this.
dated 2013
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/college-policing-says-forces-should-name-suspects-when-charged-not-when-arrested/
Who mentioned "appeasing the public"? Is that what you think the PJ did in 2007 when they made the McCanns official suspects?
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Who mentioned "appeasing the public"? Is that what you think the PJ did in 2007 when they made the McCanns official suspects?
"Crucify him, crucify him!"