Author Topic: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion  (Read 205998 times)

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #165 on: July 01, 2015, 06:26:29 PM »
I think 5J is at the far end of the block: according to the cleaner it seems to be one of the few properties not operated by the holiday company.  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_CLEANER.htm
Well done, Brietta.

I see I have been a proper wally in asking about a photo when I did not post the photo I was asking about.   8)-)))

The layout I was asking about is, indeed, the one in Brietta's photo.

And, yup, the cleaner did not clean 5J, hence no keys, hence another way in was required.  She did clean 5I, hence key, hence potential route into 5J.

I am still asking if 5J is at the W end of the block, just to be certain.  The cleaner also cleaned 5K.  If that is really up on the E end of the block, the police did not get into 5J that way.
What's up, old man?

Offline mercury

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #166 on: July 01, 2015, 09:44:11 PM »
5J is an end apartment (west side) on the second story of the building.

See the 3rd and 4th images on the page here:



http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic179-10.html

Block 5 on the right hand side of second image.

Offline pegasus

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #167 on: July 01, 2015, 11:26:08 PM »
Since you have obviously spent more time on this than I have, I would appreciate your view as to whether the following layout is correct or not.

I though 5J was somewhere near the middle but this is putting it as the extreme W end.

That would narrow the method of entry to going into 5I and nipping across the roof to an open window.

If they chose that route it suggests it was easier than trying to get in via a locked front door or a front window that was not open.

Which in turn suggests that getting through a locked front door or a locked front window on 5A was not the easiest route. Unless one had a key.
5J is the west end apartment on the first floor of block 5.
It has no steps up to its balcony. Initial PJ/GNR access was possibly by climbing from 5i balcony to an unlocked window on south face of 5J ?

BTW 4G is the east end apartment on the first floor of block 4.
Block 4 is built on higher ground than block 5. So 4G directly overlooks 5J.

Re 5A. A burglar with a key would not open a window.
The only burglar-accessible window was the child bedroom window.
It was closed but not locked IMO.
See statements of both adult occupants - neither of them had ever checked or pressed the lock button.
See also T7 statements - after the disappearance they checked their windows and found some were closed but not locked.

IMO the 5G + 5L + 4A burglaries / attempted burglaries were probably all by heriberto method on the one accesible window which was unlocked but with shutter down. It is important to note that 4A is almost identical to 5A.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 11:42:05 PM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #168 on: July 02, 2015, 12:55:16 AM »
How Tannerman efits were released.

Madeleine: Brown demands action from the Portuguese police

From ANDREW WILKS in Praia da Luz
Last updated at 18:38 27 May 2007

Gordon Brown intervened in the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann after a series of phone conversations with her father.
The Chancellor was told by Gerry McCann that he was concerned police were not being "forthcoming" with information.
In particular, Mr McCann and his wife Kate felt they should make public a description of a possible suspect.

Through the Foreign Office, Mr Brown arranged a meeting between senior Portuguese officers and the couple, which led to the release of details of a potential sighting of Madeleine being carried by her abductor on the night she went missing.
The Prime Minister-in-waiting's involvement emerged as Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall also showed their support for the McCanns.

They issued a statement which said they had been following the case "with deep concern for the parents and fervently hope that Madeleine will be safely returned to her family as soon as possible. Their Royal Highnesses' thoughts and prayers remain with Mr and Dr McCann at this very difficult time."
It was revealed that the McCanns may visit Rome this week to meet the Pope. The couple say their Catholic faith has sustained them since four-year-old Madeleine was snatched.
The Chancellor, who has a son a few months younger than Madeleine, spoke to Mr McCann on three occasions early last week and pledged support from the very top of Government.
A spokesman for the McCanns said: "The conversations took place against the background of the Chancellor's earlier offer to help when he met and spoke to other members of the family in the UK."



The McCanns said their meeting with police was "amicable and very constructive". They welcomed the decision to release details of a man seen in Praia da Luz on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.
He was said to be white, 35 to 40, medium build, 5ft 10in, wearing a dark jacket and light beige trousers. He was possibly carrying a child.
The McCanns said: "The release of this important information followed an earlier meeting we had with senior police officers. We feel sure this sighting of a man with what appeared to be a child in his arms is both significant and relevant to Madeleine's abduction."

Portuguese police have known of the sighting for three weeks but because of laws which forbid the release of details of an investigation, it could not be disclosed.
In other countries, such a vital piece of the jigsaw would have been released early on in the hope of witnesses coming forward.
Although they have praised the efforts to find their daughter, the McCanns were said to be increasingly frustrated at delays and communication problems. The family threatened legal action to push for the information to be released.
Earlier the couple told how they are so haunted by the abduction of their daughter that they sleep with their two other children, two-year-old twins Amelie and Sean.
Kate, 38, said: "The twins sleep in the bed with us now. They help us to get through this. We are a strong family and they were so close to Madeleine, only 20 months apart."

In their first newspaper interview, the pair described how their lives have been turned inside out.
Gerry, also 38, said he has woken every day distraught at not receiving a call to tell him Madeleine has been found safe. "My waking thought is that the phone by the bedside has not rung and that means Madeleine has not been found."
Telling how she copes with not having her daughter around, Kate added: "I am better in the morning, it seems like a fresh start. Evenings are harder. I haven't been able to use the camera since I took that last photograph of Madeleine."
The couple spoke before taking Amelie and Sean to a playground where the two children played on the swings and slide and darted in and out of a Wendy house.
"The twins are so young they just get on with things but obviously we don't want them to forget about Madeleine,' said Kate.
"We are hoping to see a child psychologist next week to explain what has happened to Madeleine to the twins."



Kate also relived the moment she realised her child had been abducted. "For a few seconds there was total disbelief. It was terrifying. You just don't expect in a million years that this could happen."
Gerry added: "The way the scene was left means there was absolutely no doubt she had been abducted."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-457922/Madeleine-Brown-demands-action-Portuguese-police.html

The British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown called the police counterpart of Mr.Gonçalo Amaral, in Leicester, to warn him that Gonçalo Amaral had been removed. Gonçalo Amaral was only given notice of his 'removal' from the case two hours after this call was made.

"When politics intrude into a criminal investigation, nothing will end well, whether the criminal investigation relates to a homicide, a burglary, a disappearance, or corruption.” (GA)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 12:58:16 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #169 on: July 02, 2015, 08:25:49 AM »

(snip)
The British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown called the police counterpart of Mr.Gonçalo Amaral, in Leicester, to warn him that Gonçalo Amaral had been removed. Gonçalo Amaral was only given notice of his 'removal' from the case two hours after this call was made.

"When politics intrude into a criminal investigation, nothing will end well, whether the criminal investigation relates to a homicide, a burglary, a disappearance, or corruption.” (GA)

The person who Brown allegedly called varies.... in this version it was Socrates.

“And on the 2nd of October, after I was questioned by a paper, Diário de Notícias, about what I thought of the English police saying that Madeleine had been sighted in Morocco, I unburdened that they should worry about what really had happened to Madeleine instead of worrying about other situations because when the English police left Portugal, what was agreed upon between the Portuguese police and the English police was that the investigation had to move forward in terms of understanding how the death had occurred. The death of Madeleine McCann. And what had happened to the body.”

“We were not discussing abductions or that the child had been taken to become a sex slave, none of that. We were speaking about death and concealment of a body. And it’s on that 2nd of October that I leave. I left the investigation, it’s on that 2nd of October that Gordon Brown speaks with José Sócrates – it would be good if Mr José Sócrates would explain, if he is able to explain what happened – I think that his stance was one of – from what I could understand at that time, a stance of distance from the investigation, he didn’t give a lot of importance to Gordon Brown’s statement – Gordon Brown tried to involve the Portuguese prime minister in that controversy, so to speak.”

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic21993.html

Offline Carana

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #170 on: July 02, 2015, 08:27:46 AM »
From further on:

Q: How is it possible that the English prime minister’s spokesman quit Tony Blair to become the McCanns’ spokesman within 24 hours?

“That’s another mystery within the mystery. And if we understand that little mystery, maybe we can understand what lies behind, not the disappearance, not the child’s death, but behind the protection – why protect this family, this couple?”


What's the mystery? He was seconded to the Foreign Office to help deal with the media.

Offline jassi

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #171 on: July 02, 2015, 08:44:22 AM »
From further on:

Q: How is it possible that the English prime minister’s spokesman quit Tony Blair to become the McCanns’ spokesman within 24 hours?

“That’s another mystery within the mystery. And if we understand that little mystery, maybe we can understand what lies behind, not the disappearance, not the child’s death, but behind the protection – why protect this family, this couple?”


What's the mystery? He was seconded to the Foreign Office to help deal with the media.

Is that in itself not a bit of mystery?  Is that the sort of thing the FO routinely do?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #172 on: July 02, 2015, 09:03:44 AM »
The person who Brown allegedly called varies.... in this version it was Socrates.

“And on the 2nd of October, after I was questioned by a paper, Diário de Notícias, about what I thought of the English police saying that Madeleine had been sighted in Morocco, I unburdened that they should worry about what really had happened to Madeleine instead of worrying about other situations because when the English police left Portugal, what was agreed upon between the Portuguese police and the English police was that the investigation had to move forward in terms of understanding how the death had occurred. The death of Madeleine McCann. And what had happened to the body.”

“We were not discussing abductions or that the child had been taken to become a sex slave, none of that. We were speaking about death and concealment of a body. And it’s on that 2nd of October that I leave. I left the investigation, it’s on that 2nd of October that Gordon Brown speaks with José Sócrates – it would be good if Mr José Sócrates would explain, if he is able to explain what happened – I think that his stance was one of – from what I could understand at that time, a stance of distance from the investigation, he didn’t give a lot of importance to Gordon Brown’s statement – Gordon Brown tried to involve the Portuguese prime minister in that controversy, so to speak.”

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic21993.html

He can talk to both on the same day. Socrates then notify LP.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #173 on: July 02, 2015, 09:04:24 AM »
Is that in itself not a bit of mystery?  Is that the sort of thing the FO routinely do?

It may be a mystery if there is a hint of paranoia in the air ... and much of what is said in relation to Madeleine McCann's case smacks of just that.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Benice

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #174 on: July 02, 2015, 09:38:17 AM »
It may be a mystery if there is a hint of paranoia in the air ... and much of what is said in relation to Madeleine McCann's case smacks of just that.

IMO the most paranoid person in this whole case is Amaral - starting with his decision to put a UK police officer under surveillance and continuing throughout his book and interviews.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #175 on: July 02, 2015, 09:56:39 AM »
It may be a mystery if there is a hint of paranoia in the air ... and much of what is said in relation to Madeleine McCann's case smacks of just that.


According to the spin at various points (not directly from Amaral himself), apparently the UK would refuse to sign the Lisbon Treaty if Amaral wasn't removed... He was too close to the truth and Gerry had to be protected at all costs because he was a VIP in the Scottish political circles, in between doing open-heart surgery and being a powerful figure in the nuclear industry. This was no doubt why the UK ordered NSA to pretend they'd didn't have any satellite close-up snaps of PdL that night. And the diplomatic exchange was Gerry in return for the UK protecting Socrates. I'm sure I've missed a few dozen more...


Offline G-Unit

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #176 on: July 02, 2015, 11:35:04 AM »
Is that in itself not a bit of mystery?  Is that the sort of thing the FO routinely do?

Well, Murat didn't get any help, if that's relevant.
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Offline Carana

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #177 on: July 02, 2015, 11:38:36 AM »
He can talk to both on the same day. Socrates then notify LP.

So Brown phones Socrates, who then phones LP?

Seriously?

Offline Carana

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #178 on: July 02, 2015, 11:50:42 AM »
Is that in itself not a bit of mystery?  Is that the sort of thing the FO routinely do?

It's happened before when there's been a UK media circus descending en masse in an overseas country that was ill-equipped to deal with it.

I'll post an example I have in mind when I eventually find it again. An ambassador's memoirs over some crisis or other that led to a media circus of a similar nature. It was not in Portugal. 

Offline Angelo222

Re: Documentaries & Articles for Discussion
« Reply #179 on: July 02, 2015, 12:05:04 PM »
Well, Murat didn't get any help, if that's relevant.

Good point, I don't think this has been discussed before and could make an interesting new topic.

Question being, did the British Government have a policy of rendering assistance to holidaymakers abroad to the exclusion of expats?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!