The Lisbon Libel Trial

[G-Unit]

While awaiting the ECHR's take on the McCann v Amaral trial, I thought it might be interesting to examine the claims made and the successes and failures of each one. I'm starting at the beginning with the first claim.

The McCann's lawyer, Isabel Duarte, claimed that Amaral's thesis, laid out in his book, documentary and media interviews was that;

the 3rd claimant (Madeleine McCann) died in the apartment that the family occupied in Praia da Luz on the night of May 3, 2007, that this death occurred as a result of an accident for which the 1st and 2nd claimants are responsible, that these claimants simulated the abduction of the child and then subtracted the body that they concealed, everything to evade the action of justice.
Page 3 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

The first judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro rejected the bolded statement, saying;

This thesis doesn't, according to what is thought, affirm that the claimants had "responsibilities in the death of their daughter", but rather that they had responsibilities in the concealment of her body.
Page 10 https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/v02.htm

So press headlines such as this were misleading and untrue;

Who is Goncalo Amaral? Ex-Madeleine McCann detective who claims Kate and Gerry killed their daughter
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2751442/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry/

[Venturi Swirl]

I don't know what point you're trying to make.  Didn't Amaral claim the McCanns oversedated Madeleine, thereby killing her?

[Brietta]

Who gives a tinker's curse about the libel trial when the final decision is yet to be decided as soon as the ECHR gets round to telling us what conclusions they arrive at.

I rather get the impression that sceptics prefer to wallow in past glories rather than addressing current events which might very well have a bearing on Madeleine's case.
The icing on the cake of which is that even the German prosecutor concedes there is a small chance Madeleine could be alive.
Madeleine McCann 'may still be alive' admits German prosecutor in astonishing interview
German cops said there was no forensic evidence to prove her death and suggested 'hope” she might yet be found.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-may-still-alive-22189090

[G-Unit]

The claims continue;

These facts deprive the 3rd claimant (Madeleine McCann) of the just and apropriate investigation of her disappearance.

These facts damage and will continue to damage in the future the moral integrity of the 4° and 5° claimants (the McCann twins), whose right to good name and good name of their family are affected by those facts.

The 1st and 2nd claimants are, because of the same facts, totally destroyed, depressed, feeling ashamed and experiencing a deep malaise because they are considered as having responsibility in the disappearance of their daughter and as coward people who have hidden her body, simulating a kidnapping.
page 3 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

The claiments were unable to prove the truth of any of the above allegations, and they are all listed as "FACTS NOT PROVEN"
page 31 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

Consequently the judge decided to;

VIII. Fully dismiss the requests made in the attached action by the claimants  MADELEINE MCCANN, SEAN MICHAEL MCCANN and AMELIE EVE MCCANN.
Page 51 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

So from April 27th 2015 the McCann children were no longer included in the action. Even so, the McCanns issued a statement following the first judgement saying;

We want to emphasise the action was never about money. It was entirely focused on the effect of the libels on our other children and the damage that was done to the search for Madeleine.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/apr/28/madeleine-mccann-parents-win-libel-damages-goncalo-amaral-trial

While that may have been their focus, their claims on behalf of their children were not successful. Only their parents were awarded payments. Was that because they proved the truth of their claim as above; i.e.?

"The 1st and 2nd claimants are, because of the same facts, totally destroyed, depressed, feeling ashamed and experiencing a deep malaise because they are considered as having responsibility in the disappearance of their daughter and as coward people who have hidden her body, simulating a kidnapping."

No, that claim was listed in "FACTS NOT PROVEN" too. (page 31 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0)

[Venturi Swirl]

Who gives a tinker's curse about the libel trial when the final decision is yet to be decided as soon as the ECHR gets round to telling us what conclusions they arrive at.

I rather get the impression that sceptics prefer to wallow in past glories rather than addressing current events which might very well have a bearing on Madeleine's case.
The icing on the cake of which is that even the German prosecutor concedes there is a small chance Madeleine could be alive.
Madeleine McCann 'may still be alive' admits German prosecutor in astonishing interview
German cops said there was no forensic evidence to prove her death and suggested 'hope” she might yet be found.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-may-still-alive-22189090

Ain't that the truth.

[Wonderfulspam]

Who gives a tinker's curse about the libel trial when the final decision is yet to be decided as soon as the ECHR gets round to telling us what conclusions they arrive at.

I rather get the impression that sceptics prefer to wallow in past glories rather than addressing current events which might very well have a bearing on Madeleine's case.
The icing on the cake of which is that even the German prosecutor concedes there is a small chance Madeleine could be alive.
Madeleine McCann 'may still be alive' admits German prosecutor in astonishing interview
German cops said there was no forensic evidence to prove her death and suggested 'hope” she might yet be found.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-may-still-alive-22189090

That's hilarious.

He has concrete evidence Maddie is dead & Brueckner murdered her.

But she might still be alive.

Wolters is a genius.

[Wonderfulspam]

While awaiting the ECHR's take on the McCann v Amaral trial, I thought it might be interesting to examine the claims made and the successes and failures of each one. I'm starting at the beginning with the first claim.

The McCann's lawyer, Isabel Duarte, claimed that Amaral's thesis, laid out in his book, documentary and media interviews was that;

the 3rd claimant (Madeleine McCann) died in the apartment that the family occupied in Praia da Luz on the night of May 3, 2007, that this death occurred as a result of an accident for which the 1st and 2nd claimants are responsible, that these claimants simulated the abduction of the child and then subtracted the body that they concealed, everything to evade the action of justice.
Page 3 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0

The first judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro rejected the bolded statement, saying;

This thesis doesn't, according to what is thought, affirm that the claimants had "responsibilities in the death of their daughter", but rather that they had responsibilities in the concealment of her body.
Page 10 https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/v02.htm

So press headlines such as this were misleading and untrue;

Who is Goncalo Amaral? Ex-Madeleine McCann detective who claims Kate and Gerry killed their daughter
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2751442/goncalo-amaral-madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry/

Something that bothers me about the Paxman interview of Gerry McCann that's relevant to this point.

He asked Gerry, 'did you kill your daughter?'

But that wasn't what was being alleged by the PJ or Amaral.

Paxman should have asked,  'Did Maddie die & you cover up her death?'

Gerry obviously answered no, that he he didn't kill his daughter.

But notably, Paxman never asked if Kate killed her, so we never got an answer on that either.

[Venturi Swirl]

Ah, should have known Paxo was in on it.

[Venturi Swirl]

Something that bothers me about the Paxman interview of Gerry McCann that's relevant to this point.

He asked Gerry, 'did you kill your daughter?'

But that wasn't what was being alleged by the PJ or Amaral.

Paxman should have asked,  'Did Maddie die & you cover up her death?'

Gerry obviously answered no, that he he didn't kill his daughter.

But notably, Paxman never asked if Kate killed her, so we never got an answer on that either.

Do you think if Paxman had asked Gerry "Did Maddie die and you cover up her death" that he would have got a different answer to the one he did get? 

[G-Unit]

Who gives a tinker's curse about the libel trial when the final decision is yet to be decided as soon as the ECHR gets round to telling us what conclusions they arrive at.

I rather get the impression that sceptics prefer to wallow in past glories rather than addressing current events which might very well have a bearing on Madeleine's case.
The icing on the cake of which is that even the German prosecutor concedes there is a small chance Madeleine could be alive.
Madeleine McCann 'may still be alive' admits German prosecutor in astonishing interview
German cops said there was no forensic evidence to prove her death and suggested 'hope” she might yet be found.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-may-still-alive-22189090

The libel trial is finished and the final judgement has been delivered. The ECHR will be deciding whether the State of Portugal breached the McCann's human rights.

I think posts about the German's suspect should be posted on the appropriate thread, which is not this thread.

[Venturi Swirl]

The libel trial is finished and the final judgement has been delivered. The ECHR will be deciding whether the State of Portugal breached the McCann's human rights.

I think posts about the German's suspect should be posted on the appropriate thread, which is not this thread.

What do you hope to glean from re-examining the Lisbon Libel Trial again?

[G-Unit]

I don't know what point you're trying to make.  Didn't Amaral claim the McCanns oversedated Madeleine, thereby killing her?

If it wasn't mentioned in the trial, which is the subject of this thread, then it's irrelevant.

[Wonderfulspam]

Do you think if Paxman had asked Gerry "Did Maddie die and you cover up her death" that he would have got a different answer to the one he did get?

No.

But that still doesn't excuse Paxman of asking the wrong questions.

[Venturi Swirl]

No.

But that still doesn't excuse Paxman of asking the wrong questions.

Why is it the wrong question?  I thought you were convinced the McCanns MURDERED their daughter.

[Venturi Swirl]

If it wasn't mentioned in the trial, which is the subject of this thread, then it's irrelevant.

Was it not mentioned in the trial then?