Author Topic: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver  (Read 52189 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #120 on: April 26, 2015, 10:21:23 PM »
But presumably only if there is good reason.

The change in the law which came into force days after the McCanns were made arguidos means that people can only become such if there is supporting evidence.
If there has been no resolution to that situation in the intervening period I would imagine there would be little resistance by the judiciary to an extension.

Do we even know who made them arguidos in the first place ... or might there be the possibility their lawyers advised them to request it?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline mercury

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #121 on: April 27, 2015, 01:11:51 AM »
I agree about people being tried by media, but I believe his where abouts and behaviour, along with others, warrents him being questioned at least.

We need motive, means and opportunity.

We do indeed, none of those "indicators" singly or collectively in gadfly's post prove or suggest motive...J Wilkins didnt help in the search, many used their phones that night, many lived and worked in PDL, where is the actual suspicion about this chap?

Offline mercury

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #122 on: April 27, 2015, 01:15:26 AM »
According to the media, he is still an arguido. However, I understand that a person can only remain an arguido for a period of 8 months before the status must be altered. That period must be due to expire any day now.

Murat and the Mccanns were arguidos, it doesn't automatic!ly mean they are guilty, just that police are hedging their bets

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #123 on: April 27, 2015, 07:51:53 AM »
The change in the law which came into force days after the McCanns were made arguidos means that people can only become such if there is supporting evidence.
If there has been no resolution to that situation in the intervening period I would imagine there would be little resistance by the judiciary to an extension.

Do we even know who made them arguidos in the first place ... or might there be the possibility their lawyers advised them to request it?

IMO it is usual for an investigating force to have to prove good reason to extend questioning or status.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #124 on: April 27, 2015, 10:22:26 AM »
I'm not quite sure what the situation is in this instance.

My understanding is that there is a range of timeframes for a Portuguese investigation depending on a number of factors, including the complexity of the investigation, the type of crime, whether arguidos are held on remand or under house arrest, whether there are arguidos or specified suspects at all...

A new provision has been added to cover the eventuality of letters of request (but it doesn't specify whether that just concerns PT waiting for results from a foreign jurisdiction for one of their own investigations). The timeframe is suspended for up to half of the normal one to allow for it.

However, unless I'm mistaken, the current arguidos were given that status as part of the Met's investigation, not the PT one, and I haven't found a specific legal provision for that scenario.

If reports are true that one of the arguidos no longer is one, then that makes me think that usual rules don't apply: an arguido in a PT investigation retains that status until there is a judicial decision. If that's the case, then the arguido status may have been lifted if the Met had eliminated that person from their enquiries - even though that doesn't appear to be a concept in PT law.

A further complication is that the Met apparently submitted a letter of request concerning various DNA issues, which is separate from the ones concerning interviews. If the DNA request is linked to any of the arguidos, then the Met presumably won't eliminate them until that request has been processed and analysed.

The Articles I'm looking at are 276 and 215:

http://www.homepagejuridica.net/attachments/article/718/C%C3%B3digo%20de%20Processo%20Penal%20agosto%202014.pdf


Offline mercury

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #125 on: April 27, 2015, 09:11:01 PM »
Im not sure either, but was there a relevant point you were trying to make?

Offline Carana

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #126 on: April 28, 2015, 08:48:43 AM »
Im not sure either, but was there a relevant point you were trying to make?

The discussion was how long this chap (and others) could remain arguidos...

Offline Anna

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #127 on: April 28, 2015, 11:59:03 PM »
Again old news, but it gives us an idea of the Arquido status time..................

Express http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/565536 ... e-suspects
By James Murray PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Mar 22, 2015

Madeleine police face April deadline over questioning Portuguese suspects

TIME is running out for ­Scotland Yard to question three Portuguese suspects in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The trio were given “arguido” or suspect status in July last year which allowed Portuguese detectives to question them intensively about their movements around the time that Madeleine vanished in May 2007.

Details of those interviews have now been analysed by Scotland Yard officers.

Under Portuguese law the arguido status lasts for only eight months but can be extended, although that is not common.

If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved, which automatically removes the arguido status.

With an April deadline approaching, the Yard is carefully considering its next move. Senior Portuguese police officers recently met British officials in Portugal for an update on what the Yard team seeks to do and how long it will take.

 If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved

Although there are no plans to drop the four-year £10million Operation Grange investigation, led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the meeting focused on what new information has come to light and what more needs to be done.

It is understood that part of the discussion was about DNA samples taken from the Ocean Club holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve where Madeleine was staying with her family.

The trio waiting to have their arguido status lifted are former Ocean Club driver Jose Carlos da Silva, jobless schizophrenic Paulo Jorge Ribeiro and Ricardo Jorge, who was just 16 at the time Madeleine vanished.

They have all strenuously denied knowing anything about her disappearance.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #128 on: April 29, 2015, 12:08:20 AM »
Again old news, but it gives us an idea of the Arquido status time..................

Express http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/565536 ... e-suspects
By James Murray PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Mar 22, 2015

Madeleine police face April deadline over questioning Portuguese suspects

TIME is running out for ­Scotland Yard to question three Portuguese suspects in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The trio were given “arguido” or suspect status in July last year which allowed Portuguese detectives to question them intensively about their movements around the time that Madeleine vanished in May 2007.

Details of those interviews have now been analysed by Scotland Yard officers.

Under Portuguese law the arguido status lasts for only eight months but can be extended, although that is not common.

If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved, which automatically removes the arguido status.

With an April deadline approaching, the Yard is carefully considering its next move. Senior Portuguese police officers recently met British officials in Portugal for an update on what the Yard team seeks to do and how long it will take.

 If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved

Although there are no plans to drop the four-year £10million Operation Grange investigation, led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the meeting focused on what new information has come to light and what more needs to be done.

It is understood that part of the discussion was about DNA samples taken from the Ocean Club holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve where Madeleine was staying with her family.

The trio waiting to have their arguido status lifted are former Ocean Club driver Jose Carlos da Silva, jobless schizophrenic Paulo Jorge Ribeiro and Ricardo Jorge, who was just 16 at the time Madeleine vanished.

They have all strenuously denied knowing anything about her disappearance.

If you look at the laws (link in my post above), the arguido status time is more complicated than that.

Offline mercury

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #129 on: April 29, 2015, 12:19:24 AM »
The discussion was how long this chap (and others) could remain arguidos...

But, the point is, does it matter? If police cannot get anything  in months, then another few months probably won't make much difference.


Offline Anna

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #130 on: April 29, 2015, 12:28:33 AM »
If you look at the laws (link in my post above), the arguido status time is more complicated than that.


Artigo 215

1 - Pre-trial detention is extinguished when, since its inception, have passed: a) four months without having been charged; b) eight months without, and there will be instruction has been issued instructory decision; c) A year and two months without there being any conviction in 1st instance; . d) One year and six months without there being any conviction with res judicata 2 - The periods referred to in the preceding paragraph are high, respectively, for 6 months, 10 months, 1 year and 6 months and 2 years, in cases of terrorism or violent or highly organized crime, or when proceeding for a crime punishable with a maximum prison sentence of more than eight years, or crime: a) Provided for in Article 299 o, in paragraph 1 of Article 312, paragraph 2 of Article 315, paragraph 1 of Article 318, in Articles 319, 326 and 331 or in paragraph 1 of Article 333 of the Criminal Code; b) vehicle theft or falsification of documents relating to them or identifying elements of vehicles; c) forgery of money, securities, tax stamps, seals and equivalent or its passage; d) fraud, fraudulent bankruptcy, harmful administration of public or cooperative sector, forgery, corruption, embezzlement or participating in business; e) bleaching advantages of illicit origin; f) fraud obtaining or embezzlement of subsidies, grants or credit; . g) Covered by convention on safety of air or maritime navigation 3 - The periods referred to in paragraph 1 are high, respectively, for a year, a year and four months, two years and six months and three years and four months, when the procedure is for one of the crimes referred to above, and prove exceptionally complex, due in particular to the number of defendants or offended or highly organized nature of the crime. 4 - The exceptional complexity referred to in this article may only be declared during the 1st instance, by reasoned order, on its own initiative or at the request of the prosecutor after hearing the defendant and the wizard. 5 - The periods referred to in paragraphs c) and d ) of paragraph 1 and the correspondingly referred to in paragraphs 2 and 3 are added six months if there has been appealed to the Constitutional Court or the criminal proceedings have been suspended for trial in another question of law. 6 - Should the defendant have been sentenced to prison in 1st instance and the sentence was confirmed in ordinary appeal, the maximum period of preventive detention rises to half the sentence has been fixed. 7 - The existence of several cases against the accused for crimes committed before it received probation does not exceed the time limits laid down in the preceding paragraphs. 8 - In counting the maximum length of probation periods periods are included in that the accused have been subject to obligation to remain in the room.

http://bdjur.almedina.net/item.php?field=node_id&value=1219140

276

1 - The prosecutor terminating the investigation, filing it or deducting charges, the maximum periods of six months, if defendants arrested or under obligation to remain in the room, or eight months if there are no.
2 - The term six months referred to above is high: a) For eight months, when the survey have as their object one of the crimes referred to in paragraph 2 of Article 215; b) for 10 months when, regardless of the crime, the procedure proved exceptionally complex, according to the final part of paragraph 3 of Article 215; c) For 12 months, the cases referred to in paragraph 3 of Article 215 3 - For the purposes of the before, the period shall run from the moment that the investigation has passed to run against a person or that he has verified the creation of accused. 4 - The process of the holder magistrate informs the immediate superior breach of any period provided for in paragraphs 1 and 2 or paragraph 6 of Article 89, indicating the reasons for the delay and the time required to complete the survey. 5 - In the cases referred to above, the supervisor may to call the process and always informs the Attorney General's Office, the accused and the term violation of worker and the time required to complete the survey. 6 - Having received the notification referred to in the preceding paragraph, the Attorney General of the Republic may determine ex officio or the defendant's request or the wizard, the procedural acceleration in accordance with Article 109


http://bdjur.almedina.net/item.php?field=node_id&value=1219218


“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline mercury

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #131 on: April 29, 2015, 12:36:31 AM »
Gosh Anna, rivetting isn't it all

 *&*%£

Doesn't make a jot of difference to anything at the end of the day. As I posted a couple of days ago, just another innocent person being targetted, no hard evidence at all

Offline Anna

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #132 on: April 29, 2015, 12:44:53 AM »
Gosh Anna, rivetting isn't it all

 *&*%£

Doesn't make a jot of difference to anything at the end of the day. As I posted a couple of days ago, just another innocent person being targetted, no hard evidence at all

"Innocent until proven guilty" indeed, Mercury, but we are discussing when the release from Arquido status will be lifted.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline mercury

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #133 on: April 29, 2015, 12:53:13 AM »
"Innocent until proven guilty" indeed, Mercury, but we are discussing when the release from Arquido status will be lifted.

Why?

Offline Anna

Re: Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva, Driver
« Reply #134 on: April 29, 2015, 12:56:48 AM »
Why?

So that we know that he is then a free person and not an arquido, of course.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato