Emma Knight's statement - how much is corroborated by other persons?

[Robittybob1]

Looking at Russell's rogatory - Russell get involved with printing off the photos with the help of John Hill and Amy Tierney. 
"So, anyway, I saw her at some point either after the initial searches or after this longer one.  Erm, then, erm, there’s a period of time where, where we didn’t search and, erm, we were trying to do things, you know, nearby, erm, one of the, one of the things we tried to do after the Police, the local GNR Police had arrived, was we tried to get, we tried to get the photograph, erm, Kate certainly had some on her camera, they were looking for one, you know, face on that was big enough rather than a, you know, a profile or something, so that took a little while, we then didn’t have any means of printing it and a lot of the MARK WARNER staff were around including John the Manager, I think it was Kat the Nanny, erm, but certainly one of the Nannies made, you know, certainly had found, found either a, well either a printer themselves that would print only from cameras or at least, erm, a connection to the printer that we could use for the card, I can’t remember what the equipment was in the end, but all of this took quite a, quite a while to get hold of.  Erm, you know, there was sort of pandemonium outside really, erm, attempts were made to, to get in touch with the Consulate, erm, and, erm, you know, there, and a lot of conversations between us together and also members of the, erm, members of the MARK WARNER staff and bystanders as well about what had happened and there was, there was quite a lot of people helping out in, in the sort of local searches as well around the adjacent blocks. "

and latter Russell criticises the coordination of the searches:
"1578    “Okay and how were they planned”'
 Reply    “Bad, err very, very, kind of at the drop of a hat, I mean the, the initial search was just, you know just to make sure she hadn’t wandered off, I think there was some planning by some of the Mark WARNER staff, just to make sure that individuals went off in different areas, there wasn’t really a great deal of coordination with the ones that I did, the early ones were happening before there was a group there and the one I did last, probably after, you know whilst I was back, err outside the apartment for a period of time, there was a lot of searching going on that may have been more coordinated than what I was doing, when I went back out, there wasn’t any clear coordination, so I just went to somewhere different that I hadn’t, that I hadn’t checked before”."

[Robittybob1]

Now I'll look specifically for the word "beach" in Russell's rogatory statement.

Well if this isn't cryptic enough, it is certainly clear who went down to the beach!

"Reply    “Of the last interview. Err I’ve already mentioned that we did, from my actions in, I’ll get it in some kind of order, I did an immediate search err we then doubled back, we split up again, I searched the, round the back of the tennis courts, down that road, supermarket, shopping centre, met up with Dave at some point near that, found out that we’d still not, still not been met. I think probably at that point is when I went back to see Jane and, and, and found out what she, what she, what she said, and then me, Dave and Matt went down to the water front, split up on the beach, met a few, you know asked a few people as we were going round what’s going on, swept back up from the beach, err back to the, back to the apartment then spent a fair amount of time on there both just talking to people err we got photographs there, there was some attempts to, to get, you know contact with consulate and so on and so forth.

[G-Unit]

Remember in the Control Risks report they spoke with Emma and she said Matt and David were down at the beach.

Dave and Matt both mention they were down at the beach and in both instances they mention the Mark Warner people were there too.
In her statement what does she say?

"I returned to the location where the leaflets were being distributed and passed on the information that I had gathered about the missing girl. Lyndsey was busy with the distribution of the leaflets and I went to search in the beach area. On my return I passed by the Duke Pub where I met other members of staff who also joined in the searches.

The hotel manager, John Hill arrived at the location from which the searches were being organised and I can confirm that he called the police."  Emma Knight


Is it possible the search down at the beach was done later?

Can we determine from Matt and David's statements when they were down at the beach to observe the "Mark Warner people"

And I suggest it would have to be before 01.00 hrs as that was when Matt and John Hill visited Jez' apartment.

When did Matt meet with John to even thinking of visiting Jez' place?   There has to be some discussion and planning to even do that.

John fails to mention this visit, but it is raised in the Control Risk report, so it is possible Emma is aware of that happening, for Matt doesn't know John's name but he is mentioned by name in the CR report. (Matt calls him "Stuart Hill").

Remember John Hill and Emma are the Mark Warner people AFAIK.

John Hill - "P74. John Hill, the Mark Warner resort manager, arrived at the veranda to the rear of the apartment." https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/tag/john-hill/

Emma Knight - "I am currently an employee of the Mark Warner Holiday Company, 20 Kensington Church Street, London. I have worked for this company since November 2005 and have held various positions in complexes and hotels abroad.

In March 2007 I travelled to the Mark Warner complex in Praia da Luz, Portugal. My position was Client Support Manager and my function was to receive and welcome the new guests and be available to resolve any problem that might arise during their stay."

So they are definitely "Mark Warner people".  I think it only these two who are specifically called MW staff.

John Hill and Matt neither mention  going to Jeremy Wilkins' apartment in their statement. - can't cite that.
But the visit is mentioned in the CR report:
"At about 01.00 Matthew was with John Hill (resort manager) when they knocked on Jeremy Wilkins's door to ask if he had seen anything."

I have raised the issue about whether they should be interviewing potential witnesses ahead of the PJ.




Remember the previous error in the Time line information: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

(we know Matt was at reception at this time).

"Estimated time around 23.10 pm Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by E.L.K. when she was on her way to the beach, the search area to which she was assigned by L. J. (child care director and search coordinator)."

Control Risk has this to say:
"Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by Emma Knights when she was on her way to the beach, the search area to which she was assigned by Lyndsey Johnson (child care director and search coordinator)."

So her it says on the way to the beach not actually at the beach.

Right we are now ready to look at what both David and Matt say in their rogatory.

Firstly David Payne rogatory:

"I went up to look at our apartment to check, check the girls were alright and you know, and the actual order that this all happened, you know, it's just err a complete eye opener up for us to see you know what other unfor, unfortunate people have been through just to what a destabilising effect, you know, that circumstances has on you or, and you know I, I think most people had a, you know, idea of, pretty exactly what happened that day leaving but you know after that I think people find it really difficult generally to say exactly what they did and when. Err but as I say we went err we went to the apartment and had a look round and then err I had a look quite earlier on to see err whether the, err girls were alright. I then at some stage went back to see Dianne and say look can you just leave the table, just go back to the apartment and then I had the sweep around the swimming pool where the, err the kiddies pool is, I went to, I just had a quick look at the tennis courts and just basically swept around the, the area just to make, make sure you know that, ah this can't, can't be what's happened,

she must have you know, you just don't want to weigh up that option, it just wasn't an option that could have happened but you knew it had happened and err, and then as I say we spoke, me, Matt and Russell, right come on we've got to have a bit more structure to this, err you know, I'll, I'll you know so he went off down to the Police Station and you know, you know we waited as I say for the Police to arrive and we, our, I think it was in between them arriving or when they arrived that I then went down and did that sweep of you know, right down past the Supermarket err going slightly to the side and then onto the front past where the church is at the bottom. I looked, you know I say I looked in all the rocks and you know just went along the whole beach shouting out and identifying people. Err the, I say, the Mark Warner people they were around there, we, you know as I say we also at a very early stage we knew it was important that we got a picture of Madeleine just to show people, whether it be local, but, but we were also imploring the err the GNR to you know close down and circulate this picture, err and that was, you know that was something that Mark Warner team helped us set up just in the, you know the Tapas bit there.' " David Payne rogatory

And Matt from Matthew Oldfield rogatory:

"So a lot of it in terms of timing is blurred, but up and onto the top road to the Millennium Restaurant, which is pretty much you come up and along this road for about sort of five or ten minutes and sort of this end of town, let them know that a little girl was missing and then gone back through the back streets, down on the beach and then back to the apartment. Erm, at some point we were back and forth to the, to the reception as well. And I think what the reception probably did was ring the MARK WARNER people and say, there's somebody that's saying there's a child missing, because by that time there were lots of MARK WARNER people around, erm, and they were very good, they, you know, they obviously, you know, got there and that might have been the impetus that got them to ring the Police, if, because I understand that there is some discrepancy about when we thought we'd called the Police and when the Police were actually called and that might be that they went on the, on that route first and then went, I think it's Stuart HILL or, well the Manager, the sort of Manager got involved, that might have been when it occurred. Erm, so there was plenty of running around through the back streets and back to the apartment and then, you know, where's the, where are the Police, where are the Police, erm, and so went back down to the reception, this would have been about thirty minutes or so later, erm, back to reception, erm, and at that point, Gerry had come down as well, ...."

Matt doesn't link Mark Warner people with the beach.

Was it really Matt with David down on the beach?  David talks about the three of them but Matt goes to the reception, leaving David and Russell.

Could CR have got it wrong and it was David and Russell who met up with the Mark Warner people at the beach?  I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Bearing in mind that the page you linked to isn't part of the official files. It was produced by KAZLUX, one of the translators.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

[Robittybob1]

Bearing in mind that the page you linked to isn't part of the official files. It was produced by KAZLUX, one of the translators.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

But why did Kazlux make the same mistake as I did. 
As I understand it now the three men went to the beach to search, DP ROB and MO. 
 MO splits off and goes to reception to see if they have rung the police and meets up with Gerry and they wait till the GNR arrive and end up back at the apartment.

Mean while Russell and David at least see the Mark Warner people down at the beach.   
Russell comes back at some stage and with help of John Hills produces the photos.
Some of these are given to the GNR and the PJ later.

At 01.00 Matt and John go to Jeremy's place.
Emma gets involved in finding a spare apartment in block 4 for the McCanns but they don't use it that morning but opt out going to  David Payne's apartment instead.

[Robittybob1]

Looking at Emma's statement again:

"I went to the bedroom where Kate and Mrs Payne were. Kate was still upset, crying and calling Madeleine's name, shouting 'where is she''
She also banged on the headboard. At that moment I went to check on the twins in their room and they were ok.

I remember being in the main bedroom with Kate, Mrs Payne, Gerry, Russell and David who were sitting on the bed and I sat on the floor. At that moment David suggested that the press should be contacted. Russell disagreed, saying they should keep calm and let the police take care of the situation.

At that moment Kate appeared to lose control, crying and constantly asking 'where is she'' whilst banging on the bed.

Gerry remained calm throughout. On one occasion Kate and Gerry both went to the main bedroom and I could hear both of them crying."

That is confirmed by several people and it sounds as if she really was present at this time.

This next bit is quite confused as it is clear the extra cots were delivered to Payne's apartment.

"Quite a bit later that night I remember the police asking everyone to leave the apartment. I received a call from John informing me that he had arranged for another apartment for the McCanns. I went to reception and helped Lyndsey to move the two cots to the new apartment

The McCanns went to the new apartment and I remember seeing Kate and Mrs Payne seated on the sofa, each holding one of the twins. I left the new apartment at 04.30 in the morning after instructions from John Hill. I was the last to leave, the police had already left, but I left my number saying that I was available for anything that might be needed."

[G-Unit]

Now I'll look specifically for the word "beach" in Russell's rogatory statement.

Well if this isn't cryptic enough, it is certainly clear who went down to the beach!

"Reply    “Of the last interview. Err I’ve already mentioned that we did, from my actions in, I’ll get it in some kind of order, I did an immediate search err we then doubled back, we split up again, I searched the, round the back of the tennis courts, down that road, supermarket, shopping centre, met up with Dave at some point near that, found out that we’d still not, still not been met. I think probably at that point is when I went back to see Jane and, and, and found out what she, what she, what she said, and then me, Dave and Matt went down to the water front, split up on the beach, met a few, you know asked a few people as we were going round what’s going on, swept back up from the beach, err back to the, back to the apartment then spent a fair amount of time on there both just talking to people err we got photographs there, there was some attempts to, to get, you know contact with consulate and so on and so forth.

I wonder what that means?

met up with Dave at some point near that, found out that we’d still not, still not been met.

We'd still not been met by whom?

Russell's evidence is very strange. He describes searching;

We searched a cul-de-sac area......We went on to search the gardens and patios. Then we went downhill towards the centre.  On the second search we went to the shopping centre and then towards the tennis courts.  We searched around the back of the tennis courts.

On my way back I bumped into Dave
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

So 'we' searched but on the way back 'we' became 'I'. Who were 'we' and where did the other person(s) go? It seems Dave wasn't one of them. Later he says;

I searched mainly on my own

[Robittybob1]

I wonder what that means?

met up with Dave at some point near that, found out that we’d still not, still not been met.

We'd still not been met by whom?

Russell's evidence is very strange. He describes searching;

We searched a cul-de-sac area......We went on to search the gardens and patios. Then we went downhill towards the centre.  On the second search we went to the shopping centre and then towards the tennis courts.  We searched around the back of the tennis courts.

On my way back I bumped into Dave
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

So 'we' searched but on the way back 'we' became 'I'. Who were 'we' and where did the other person(s) go? It seems Dave wasn't one of them. Later he says;

I searched mainly on my own

It is messy for sure but all I'm really focused on is whether David was with Russell or Matt at the beach, and I think they were at a time when the Mark Warner people were there too.
It is possible but the statements are jumbled so it becomes very difficult to be definite.

What is surprising is that neither John Hill nor Emma were there to meet  the GNR when they arrived, and then latter  one of the Mark Warner/OC staff handed a phone to Officer Roque with a call purportedly from the UK Consulate saying the PJ have authority in the case.
"He also refers to a situation when he was searching outside, near the pool, that someone from the OC whom he cannot identify, passed him a mobile phone, as a British Consulate employee who spoke in Portuguese, wanted to talk to the authorities. Upon speaking to him, he told him that the investigation and subsequent actions were under the responsibility of the PJ."

[Robittybob1]

I don't think there would be any way to cross reference anything from this next segment:
"After a short rest I returned to work at 08.00. I did not see Kate or Gerry during the whole morning, but went to the new apartment at about lunchtime. Kate and Gerry were not there but there were other members of the group taking care of the twins.

I remember there were helicopters flying overhead and showing them to the twins.

I remember that both Kate and Gerry were calmer that day and Kate had stopped crying. They were accompanied by family members who had travelled to Portugal and by the local priest. I remember that on the night Madeleine disappeared, Kate wanted to contact the local priest, but it was not possible to reach him by phone.

I remember being present in the apartment with Kate, Gerry and other members of the family when they gave their first press conference. Gerry sat at the table and wrote what he wanted to say to the press and Kate, although she did not want to speak to the press, accompanied Gerry and stood by his side while he read the statement. I and the others stayed at the apartment door to observe.

During the weeks that followed, when Kate and Gerry were still staying in the complex I accompanied them and helped in the preparation of the posters for Gerry and planned the way to take the twins to the creche without being bothered by the press. Gerry was always calm and polite, whilst Kate could not hide her emotion. At times she appeared reasonably all right at other times she would walk about crying."

I wonder why Emma wasn't asked to give an earlier statement.  "During the weeks that followed, when Kate and Gerry were still staying in the complex" 

[Robittybob1]

The last part of her statement are the answers to specific questions:

"In relation to the specific questions, these are my replies:

1. My first meeting with the McCanns occurred when they arrived at the complex and my relationship with them was purely professional as Manager of Client Support services and a s Mark Warner representative.
2) I first spoke to Gerry and Kate McCann at about 23.00 on the night of 3rd May in their apartment after the disappearance of Madeleine.

3) Gerry and Kate said that their daughter had disappeared and that she had been abducted.

4) I would describe Kate's reaction as hysterical and desperate. Gerry was visibly upset and cried out of our earshot, but he maintained a firm position and helped in all he could.
5) As mentioned previously, their emotional state was one of consternation and despair. "
Emma Knight

The only part I have a problem with there is: "2) I first spoke to Gerry and Kate McCann at about 23.00 on the night of 3rd May in their apartment after the disappearance of Madeleine".  IMO I tend to think Gerry was waiting at the main reception at that time.

[G-Unit]

But why did Kazlux make the same mistake as I did. 
As I understand it now the three men went to the beach to search, DP ROB and MO. 
 MO splits off and goes to reception to see if they have rung the police and meets up with Gerry and they wait till the GNR arrive and end up back at the apartment.

Mean while Russell and David at least see the Mark Warner people down at the beach.   
Russell comes back at some stage and with help of John Hills produces the photos.
Some of these are given to the GNR and the PJ later.

At 01.00 Matt and John go to Jeremy's place.
Emma gets involved in finding a spare apartment in block 4 for the McCanns but they don't use it that morning but opt out going to  David Payne's apartment instead.

Initially they did go to 4G, then moved to the Payne's apartment later.

[Robittybob1]

Initially they did go to 4G, then moved to the Payne's apartment later.

How would you prove that?

[Robittybob1]

Initially they did go to 4G, then moved to the Payne's apartment later.

Who's statement corroborated that?

[Robittybob1]

At what stage of the investigation did the PJ know that John Hill and Matt went and woke up Jez Wilkins to ask him specific questions about the case.  Shouldn't that have been a job for the PJ?
 

It is clearly mentioned in the report from the Control Risk group that Emma was involved with.

I see the statement by Jez on the 7th May already mentions this incident.  How soon did that information go back to the PJ?  Surely if GA questioned John Hill and or Emma about that they would not have forgotten about that so soon!

[jassi]

At what stage of the investigation did the PJ know that John Hill and Matt went and woke up Jez Wilkins to ask him specific questions about the case.  Shouldn't that have been a job for the PJ?
 

It is clearly mentioned in the report from the Control Risk group that Emma was involved with.

I see the statement by Jez on the 7th May already mentions this incident.  How soon did that information go back to the PJ?  Surely if GA questioned John Hill and or Emma about that they would not have forgotten about that so soon!

GA was case  coordinator, Did he personally question anyone?

[G-Unit]

Who's statement corroborated that?

Emma Knight and Dianne Webster. Emma left them in 4G at 4,30am. Dianne says they arrived in 5H at around that time.