Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?

[G-Unit]

entryism ... the policy or practice of members of a particular political group joining an existing political party with the intention of changing its principles and policies, instead of forming a new party
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Entryist


Like Miliant of yesteryear ... Momentum is an entryist political organisation which is using the Labour party in an attempt to gain power.

If they are so certain that their policies make them electable ... why not be honest about it and form their own political party with Corbyn at their head and go for it?

Momentum didn't exist when Corbyn won the leadership election, so it wasn't doing anything before then. On the other hand Progress, with Blairite roots was very busy pushing it's agenda to stop Corbyn being elected;

The press and television have been mesmerised by the non-existent conspiracy of 150,000 co-ordinated “hard leftists” paying their £3 memberships to join Labour. At the same time they have ignored a million-pound operation to stop Corbyn and boost Liz Kendall — an operation that even one of its leading members calls “an unaccountable faction dominated by a secretive billionaire.”
This unaccountable faction is called Progress.
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-7dd3-Who-are-the-real-entryists#.V5T_aNIrLrc

[G-Unit]

What propaganda do you think I have fallen for?  You obviously credit me with very little intelligence nor believe I have the ability to form an opinion based on the actions and words of the man himself, or of those of his acolytes.  Nor do you credit me with the ability to separate media hyperbole about the man from the facts - and there are enough facts to convince me that Jeremy is never, ever going to form a Labour government and to convince me that he is an incompetent labour leader, and not the brightest button in the box. 

Yes, yes, yes, we all know the media has it in for Jezbollah, in the same way they have (had) it in for Farage, Trump, Nick Griffin etc over the years - it doesn't mean that these latter individuals' views and actions are any less appalling than as portrayed in the media.  The media had a field day with Griffin a few years ago - were you standing up for him on internet forums when people were saying nasty things about him too? 

Perhaps it is you who has fallen for Jeremy's wizened, one-eyed Wilk, snaggle-toothed and be-whiskered charms and for his own "new brand of politics" propaganda?  it's a possibility isn't it...?

Here's a couple of facts for you;

Corbyn made 123 public appearances campaigning for Remain. Twice as many Labour voters voted Remain than voted Leave. Nevertheless his MP's accused him of not doing enough. Eagle made 10 public appearances. More Tory voters voted Remain, but nobody in their party attacked Cameron. Or did they.................?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/it-s-neither-labour-nor-uk-s-interests-blame-jeremy-corbyn-brexit

So it wasn't anything to do with Brexit really when the PLP turned on Corbyn, that was just an excuse.

The Labour rebels plotted separately and without a big candidate to take on Corbyn. In doing so they have inevitably become part of the current problem. They are in the painfully contorted position of being both passionately sincere and disingenuous in pointing out that the Corbyn leadership “isn’t working”. For sure they mean it, but one of the many reasons it is not working is that they constantly attack him.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/labour-rebels-problem-jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith

As far as I can see all your facts are taken from media reports. Of course there are always media reports giving another view.

I would like to accept your protestations of a considered opinion, but when you start the hyperbolic personal attacks it's a sure sign that your opinion is personal, not logical.

[Miss Taken Identity]

There is a hatred and fear of left-wing politics by some in this country, as we have seen since Corbyn won the Labour leadership election;
http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/14637934.Kevin_McKenna__Why_the_powers_that_be_fear_Jeremy_Corbyn/

They attacked Nigel Farage in a similar way but people took no notice and his support grew. Tha same effect can be seen with Corbyn.

If Scotland became disenchanted with the SNP Labour could easily win a general election. Whether it could do so with Corbyn in charge remains to be seen.

To be fair G Many people, not just 'some' do not want a left wing neo communist- everyone is equal - clap trap.  It is a political romancer who believes they can deliver such an ideology without blood being spilled.

If the rich companies don't give much in Tax ( like amazon) et el, they can't leave the country as their company is online- they are a net worthless to our nation, and indeed taking jobs and revenue from our country makes them parasites in my eyes. The wealthy who pay less tax than the poor  we don't need them either. This is the thinking in all the dictatorships, looking back how did the poor get richer? as the rich got poorer did that help the survival of their economies?  It didn't work for ANY communist country-It dosn't work for socialist EU, what makes us think the UK and JC can make it work....any revolution requires participation of the people! After voting to get out of the EU I can't see those voters wanting things to stay as they are, Corbyn asn't actually mentioned his policies has he?

[Alice Purjorick]

Whichever way you slice it and dice it at the top two things never change.
1.The poor peasant out on the street struggling to make enough to buy a tin of beans to feed his kids is always just that.
2. The secret policeman is always the secret policeman.
 &%+((£

[Alfie]

Here's a couple of facts for you;

Corbyn made 123 public appearances campaigning for Remain. Twice as many Labour voters voted Remain than voted Leave. Nevertheless his MP's accused him of not doing enough. Eagle made 10 public appearances. More Tory voters voted Remain, but nobody in their party attacked Cameron. Or did they.................?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/it-s-neither-labour-nor-uk-s-interests-blame-jeremy-corbyn-brexit

So it wasn't anything to do with Brexit really when the PLP turned on Corbyn, that was just an excuse.

The Labour rebels plotted separately and without a big candidate to take on Corbyn. In doing so they have inevitably become part of the current problem. They are in the painfully contorted position of being both passionately sincere and disingenuous in pointing out that the Corbyn leadership “isn’t working”. For sure they mean it, but one of the many reasons it is not working is that they constantly attack him.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/22/labour-rebels-problem-jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith

As far as I can see all your facts are taken from media reports. Of course there are always media reports giving another view.

I would like to accept your protestations of a considered opinion, but when you start the hyperbolic personal attacks it's a sure sign that your opinion is personal, not logical.

My opinion is obviously personal (that tends to come with the territory of having an opinion), it is also perfectly logical, and happens to chime with the opinions of many, many other people in this country, includng those who have worked alongside Corbyn for many months, people who have hoped that they could overlook the man's obvious short-comings and pull together with him and his cronies to form some sort of cohesive opposition.  All my opinion is based on reports from the media, including TV and radio because I do not have first hand access to Corbyn, or his fellow MPs.  Do you, or are all your opinions based on media reporting too?  IF the latter, what makes your opinion so much more important and special than mine?  Are you blessed with greater insight, intelligence and knowledge than me, is that it?

[G-Unit]

To be fair G Many people, not just 'some' do not want a left wing neo communist- everyone is equal - clap trap.  It is a political romancer who believes they can deliver such an ideology without blood being spilled.

If the rich companies don't give much in Tax ( like amazon) et el, they can't leave the country as their company is online- they are a net worthless to our nation, and indeed taking jobs and revenue from our country makes them parasites in my eyes. The wealthy who pay less tax than the poor  we don't need them either. This is the thinking in all the dictatorships, looking back how did the poor get richer? as the rich got poorer did that help the survival of their economies?  It didn't work for ANY communist country-It dosn't work for socialist EU, what makes us think the UK and JC can make it work....any revolution requires participation of the people! After voting to get out of the EU I can't see those voters wanting things to stay as they are, Corbyn asn't actually mentioned his policies has he?

We are all equal in that we come into the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. It's the bit in between where inequalities occur. The inequalities aren't natural, they are man-made, so can be changed if the will to change them exists.

The Labour Party is a democratic Socialist Party and Corbyn is a democratic socialist. It advocates democratic government,  not government by a dictator. Corbyn hasn't made firm policy proposals, but he has revealed the direction he would like to move in;

Renationalise railways to bring down fares. Franchises would be managed locally;
Locally owned energy suppliers, emulating the German model;
Integration of health and social care;
Creation of a lifelong education service that would help retrain and reskill workers;
Universal childcare;
Repeal the Tory Trade Union Act;
Fixed pay ratios for companies to stop top management earning many multiples more than lowest paid workers;
Restriction on dividend payments for firms that don't pay the living wage.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/jeremy-corbyns-policies-at-the-fabian-conference-2016-2016-1

[Alice Purjorick]

The labour party set the rules by which its leader is elected whether that leader is electable as Prime Minister is a different issue.
If the labour party want a new leader there is a mechanism they set up to elect one. Whether one likes Corbyn or not he seems to be pushing for his party to follow its own rules. Where is the problem with that?
Those who to tried to oust him by other means sought to subvert their own party's rules.
Oh and don't bother with the "an honourable gentleman or decent chap or anyone with with any common sense or dignity would or reds under the bed" bollocks its not relevant.
The reason no one invoked the rules apart from Ms Eagle was they were to quote Margaret Thatcher "frit".

[G-Unit]

The labour party set the rules by which its leader is elected whether that leader is electable as Prime Minister is a different issue.
If the labour party want a new leader there is a mechanism they set up to elect one. Whether one likes Corbyn or not he seems to be pushing for his party to follow its own rules. Where is the problem with that?
Those who to tried to oust him by other means sought to subvert their own party's rules.
Oh and don't bother with the "an honourable gentleman or decent chap or anyone with with any common sense or dignity would or reds under the bed" bollocks its not relevant.
The reason no one invoked the rules apart from Ms Eagle was they were to quote Margaret Thatcher "frit".

Very well said.

The PLP sought, by their vote of no confidence, to override the will of the party members by forcing Corbyn to resign. His refusal forced them into this leadership election which it seems he will win again.

If the PLP have no confidence in his leadership it's they who should resign, perhaps. He has a mandate which they should accept.

[Miss Taken Identity]

We are all equal in that we come into the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. It's the bit in between where inequalities occur. The inequalities aren't natural, they are man-made, so can be changed if the will to change them exists.

The Labour Party is a democratic Socialist Party and Corbyn is a democratic socialist. It advocates democratic government,  not government by a dictator. Corbyn hasn't made firm policy proposals, but he has revealed the direction he would like to move in;

Renationalise railways to bring down fares. Franchises would be managed locally;
Locally owned energy suppliers, emulating the German model;
Integration of health and social care;
Creation of a lifelong education service that would help retrain and reskill workers;
Universal childcare;
Repeal the Tory Trade Union Act;
Fixed pay ratios for companies to stop top management earning many multiples more than lowest paid workers;
Restriction on dividend payments for firms that don't pay the living wage.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/jeremy-corbyns-policies-at-the-fabian-conference-2016-2016-1

I agree with you on the inequalities part. I am disconcered with how democratic or not the Labour party are at chosing a leader as far as I am concerned it is the lobbyist and big bucks who call the real shots- and I fear JC may not have the clout to stand up against them. For this reason,all the sleaze bag- self serving labour mp's and supporters want the power and money for themselves, so JC is not going to deliver their riches to them- hence they will fight him by what ever means-(they wheeled in the disgusting blair - and even worse money sniffers kinnocks) which usually involves back stabbing/undermining etc. a bit like what socalist do to whistleblowers in public services. remember those 'sent to coventry'  tactics- sacked for being incompetent with loads of witnesses who never even knew your surname but worked with you kind of thing? This kind of behaviour was born in the Labour party and has infected all public services.

With regards the 'social care' this is run by a private company IE councils, which now run all hospital discharged patients  yes the social work now run the NHS... oh yes bet you didn't know that is what is meant by 'social care partnerships' more managers- less workers, patient care cut!  where is your NHS money going? ask nicely.

Not everyone is happy about handing over their hard earned cash (TAX) to be give to people they wouldn't spit on, so demanding that inequalities should be met with robbing the poor to give to the less rich  and more rich is a bit much to be honest. There is no social justice in this country, that was removed by multiculturalism.

And finally we do not have democracy in this country we are the queens subjects, we also have party politics, hardly democratic.


I would add that I am not a supporter of any political party.

[G-Unit]

I agree with you on the inequalities part. I am disconcered with how democratic or not the Labour party are at chosing a leader as far as I am concerned it is the lobbyist and big bucks who call the real shots- and I fear JC may not have the clout to stand up against them. For this reason,all the sleaze bag- self serving labour mp's and supporters want the power and money for themselves, so JC is not going to deliver their riches to them- hence they will fight him by what ever means-(they wheeled in the disgusting blair - and even worse money sniffers kinnocks) which usually involves back stabbing/undermining etc. a bit like what socalist do to whistleblowers in public services. remember those 'sent to coventry'  tactics- sacked for being incompetent with loads of witnesses who never even knew your surname but worked with you kind of thing? This kind of behaviour was born in the Labour party and has infected all public services.

With regards the 'social care' this is run by a private company IE councils, which now run all hospital discharged patients  yes the social work now run the NHS... oh yes bet you didn't know that is what is meant by 'social care partnerships' more managers- less workers, patient care cut!  where is your NHS money going? ask nicely.

Not everyone is happy about handing over their hard earned cash (TAX) to be give to people they wouldn't spit on, so demanding that inequalities should be met with robbing the poor to give to the less rich  and more rich is a bit much to be honest. There is no social justice in this country, that was removed by multiculturalism.

And finally we do not have democracy in this country we are the queens subjects, we also have party politics, hardly democratic.


I would add that I am not a supporter of any political party.

I agree that our 'democracy' is an illusion. We vote occasionally for candidates chosen by others who then go to Parliament and pretend to represent us.

The EU referendum and the Labour leadership election were actually democratic. One person, one vote, one question, pick your answer. In both cases the answer was not the one required by those in positions of power, hence the fuss.

People should take note of the fact that a truly democratic decision is not what the powerful want. There will be no more referendums for a while and if Corbyn loses the leadership election the voting rules will be likely to be changed.

I also don't belong to any political party.

[John]

I agree that our 'democracy' is an illusion. We vote occasionally for candidates chosen by others who then go to Parliament and pretend to represent us.

The EU referendum and the Labour leadership election were actually democratic. One person, one vote, one question, pick your answer. In both cases the answer was not the one required by those in positions of power, hence the fuss.

People should take note of the fact that a truly democratic decision is not what the powerful want. There will be no more referendums for a while and if Corbyn loses the leadership election the voting rules will be likely to be changed.

I also don't belong to any political party.

An excellent post.  The Referendum vote was indeed democracy at its finest and people knew that their vote counted.

What was particularly amazing about the Referendum was that despite both main Parties banging the REMAIN drum and despite all these so-called experts promoting the idea that it would be doom and gloom if we left the EU, the majority of voters voted LEAVE.  Both Cameron and Corbyn made their positions known to their electorate and both summarily failed.  Cameron has resigned in defeat yet Corbyn hangs on to whatever teensy weensy bit of influence and power he has left.

One of two things will happen next in relation to the Labour leadership.  If Corbyn wins I can see the Labour Party split with the rebel MP's going off to form a new party.  If Corbyn loses, the Labour Party will continue as is.

Who knows what the situation will be by the time a leadership election finally happens in two months time?

[Alfie]

An excellent post.  The Referendum vote was indeed democracy at its finest and people knew that their vote counted.

What was particularly amazing about the Referendum was that despite both main Parties banging the REMAIN drum and despite all these so-called experts promoting the idea that it would be doom and gloom if we left the EU, the majority of voters voted LEAVE.  Both Cameron and Corbyn made their positions known to their electorate and both summarily failed.  Cameron has resigned in defeat yet Corbyn hangs on to whatever teensy weensy bit of influence and power he has left.

One of two things will happen next in relation to the Labour leadership.  If Corbyn wins I can see the Labour Party split with the rebel MP's going off to form a new party.  If Corbyn loses, the Labour Party will continue as is.

Who knows what the situation will be by the time a leadership election finally happens in two months time?

Post Brexit Jeremy Corbyn appeared to back the free movement of people on a recent Newsnight interview, so on that basis alone I can't see him winning the GBP round to voting for a Labour government any time soon, unless he performs a volte face closer to election day, which obviously as a man of honour and principle he is unlikely to do... &%+((£.

[G-Unit]

An excellent post.  The Referendum vote was indeed democracy at its finest and people knew that their vote counted.

What was particularly amazing about the Referendum was that despite both main Parties banging the REMAIN drum and despite all these so-called experts promoting the idea that it would be doom and gloom if we left the EU, the majority of voters voted LEAVE.  Both Cameron and Corbyn made their positions known to their electorate and both summarily failed.  Cameron has resigned in defeat yet Corbyn hangs on to whatever teensy weensy bit of influence and power he has left.

One of two things will happen next in relation to the Labour leadership.  If Corbyn wins I can see the Labour Party split with the rebel MP's going off to form a new party.  If Corbyn loses, the Labour Party will continue as is.

Who knows what the situation will be by the time a leadership election finally happens in two months time?

Very true, lots of time for things to develop. I'm not sure the rebels have enough integrity to leave, but whether they can keep any support...........I expect they will do what Blair and Progress tell them in the end, as they have all along in my opinion.

[Alice Purjorick]

An excellent post.  The Referendum vote was indeed democracy at its finest and people knew that their vote counted.

What was particularly amazing about the Referendum was that despite both main Parties banging the REMAIN drum and despite all these so-called experts promoting the idea that it would be doom and gloom if we left the EU, the majority of voters voted LEAVE.  Both Cameron and Corbyn made their positions known to their electorate and both summarily failed.  Cameron has resigned in defeat yet Corbyn hangs on to whatever teensy weensy bit of influence and power he has left.

One of two things will happen next in relation to the Labour leadership.  If Corbyn wins I can see the Labour Party split with the rebel MP's going off to form a new party.  If Corbyn loses, the Labour Party will continue as is.

Who knows what the situation will be by the time a leadership election finally happens in two months time?

A month ago all the allegedly "smart" money was on Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister and anyone who said different was a daisy......... ooops oh dear.
I am glad I am not smart and thought a flutter on TM at 9:4 was a good bet 

[Alfie]

Very true, lots of time for things to develop. I'm not sure the rebels have enough integrity to leave, but whether they can keep any support...........I expect they will do what Blair and Progress tell them in the end, as they have all along in my opinion.

On what basis do you doubt the integrity of 172 elected members of parliament?  The fact that they have no faith in Jeremy Corbyn, a man they perceive to be an incompetent leader?  My local MP is one of the 172, and he is a man of integrity IMO who does much good work for his constituency.