Is the Labour Party in danger of imploding?

[G-Unit]

Andrew Marr has just interviewed Corbyn and the tone has changed. Less attacking, more listening. Perhaps the media as a whole, like the PLP, will now admit defeat and allow Corbyn a fair hearing so people can make informed decisions.

Apparently Benn the backstabber has put himself forward as wanting to chair Labour's Brexit group.

Corbyn's dignity in the face of all the abuse directed at him has been impressive. He has consistently offered the olive branch to his detractors in the Party. He's not crowing now, he's still prepared to work with them for the greater good. It may be his undoing, but he's being true to his pacifist and collegiate beliefs.

If the Party do unite and support him Labour will be able to offer a real alternative to Tory values and aims for the first time in many years. If people reject it, so be it, but at least it will be offered.

[Alfie]

I watched an interview with him last night and he was as slippery as an eel on the issue of the forth-coming and inevitable purge of the moderates.  In short, I believe his pacifist Jesus impression is just that - a front.  He will get others to do his dirty work for him of course to preserve the saintly image but it will be done with his implicit consent.

[Alice Purjorick]

I watched an interview with him last night and he was as slippery as an eel on the issue of the forth-coming and inevitable purge of the moderates.  In short, I believe his pacifist Jesus impression is just that - a front.  He will get others to do his dirty work for him of course to preserve the saintly image but it will be done with his implicit consent.

Pretty much like any politician of any flavour then.
He is however duly elected leader of HM Opposition. If you don't like him, quit moaning and vote tory "next time it comes around on the guitar". If he loses then he pretty much has to fall on his sword, assuming a pacifist has a sword. The job's a good 'un.
Simples

[Alfie]

A reader's comment from the Times:

How spineless can 170 Labour rebels be?
So Jeremy marches on, regardless. He wants unlimited immigration with in his words "no upper limit", Momentum and most of the 500,000 signed up supporters back this view so where does that leave the millions of pro-Labour workers who voted Leave in the referendum?
Jeremy doesn't get it any more than Cameron or Osborne got it banging on about industry and the single market during the referendum campaign.
Many of the 17.2 million who voted leave were and are very worried about unlimited immigration. They haven't changed their minds.
The rapturous welcome for Corbyn in Liverpool is more about the scousers loathing for the Tories and their history of militancy than about any rational thinking on the EU.
If a donkey had turned up in a red jacket it would have won the votes in Liverpool.

[G-Unit]

I watched an interview with him last night and he was as slippery as an eel on the issue of the forth-coming and inevitable purge of the moderates.  In short, I believe his pacifist Jesus impression is just that - a front.  He will get others to do his dirty work for him of course to preserve the saintly image but it will be done with his implicit consent.

You can believe what you like but without evidence you can't prove it. What you say could be seen as libel, imo.

The rebels do need to watch their step. The NEC is now pro-Corbyn and many CLP's too. I'm not sure, but a CLP dissatisfied with it's MP may be able to deselect them.

Their woeful campaign against Corbyn suggests they are incompetent, does it not? All this fuss to make him even more popular! 

[Alfie]

You can believe what you like but without evidence you can't prove it. What you say could be seen as libel, imo.

The rebels do need to watch their step. The NEC is now pro-Corbyn and many CLP's too. I'm not sure, but a CLP dissatisfied with it's MP may be able to deselect them.

Their woeful campaign against Corbyn suggests they are incompetent, does it not? All this fuss to make him even more popular! 

He's not "even more popular " with the electorate and that's all that really matters, not to Jeremy and his fanclub obviously, but to anyone who actually wants an alternative to Tory rule at some point in the next decade or two.

[Alice Purjorick]

You can believe what you like but without evidence you can't prove it. What you say could be seen as libel, imo.

The rebels do need to watch their step. The NEC is now pro-Corbyn and many CLP's too. I'm not sure, but a CLP dissatisfied with it's MP may be able to deselect them.

Their woeful campaign against Corbyn suggests they are incompetent, does it not? All this fuss to make him even more popular! 

They seem to like their woeful campaigns.
Remember the a(u)nti-toff campaign in the Crewe and Nantwich by-election in 2008. Possibly not! but it was a case of how not to do it. New Labour's Captain Bertorelli moment. How to engineer an 18% swing to the opposing party without really trying!. It is well worth a read when you are short of laughs. I lived in the constituency at the time and saw the New Labour plonkers running around dressed up in "carnival outfits" yelling ra ra ra we are your new toff and other such blx. Seriously, it did happen! That's New Labour for you and to think some want to go back to that? Christ even Corbyn couldn't be worse than that fiasco.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crewe_and_Nantwich_by-election,_2008

"The Labour Party ran a personal class-based campaign against the Conservative candidate, calling him "the Tarporley Toff", "Lord Snooty", "Tory Boy Timpson". Labour supporters donned top hats to mock Timpson, whose family own Timpson, a national shoe repair and key-cutting business.This has been viewed by some social commentators as a form of reverse snobbery".
The electorate soon showed 'em which end was up. "He might be a toff but he is our toff"......... eight years on he remains "their toff" in Westminster.

[Alfie]

"The sense that Labour has been captured by left-wing entryists was strengthened by a poll showing that Smith had won the contest by a margin of 63%-37% among voters who were members before last year’s general election. Corbyn won by 85%-15% among those who have signed up since he became leader of the party" - is it any wonder most Labour MPs are not fully supportive of their leader, a man who has consistently voted against his own party all his political life?  The PLP may well be a bunch of wimps and incompetents but nothing alters the fact that they have a cuckoo in their nest, one who is being fed and supported by lefty Marxist/Trot entryists. 

[G-Unit]

"The sense that Labour has been captured by left-wing entryists was strengthened by a poll showing that Smith had won the contest by a margin of 63%-37% among voters who were members before last year’s general election. Corbyn won by 85%-15% among those who have signed up since he became leader of the party" - is it any wonder most Labour MPs are not fully supportive of their leader, a man who has consistently voted against his own party all his political life?  The PLP may well be a bunch of wimps and incompetents but nothing alters the fact that they have a cuckoo in their nest, one who is being fed and supported by lefty Marxist/Trot entryists.

You may find that your 'reds under the beds' obsession is becoming outdated.

You seem to think the PLP belongs to the 'wimps and incompetents'. It is only 'theirs' if they remain MP's and if they make up a majority of Labour MP's. Labour has always contained a spectrum of opinions, as do most parties.

It remains to be seen how the party will change under Corbyn's leadership, but why people are dead set against a man who;

Cares about the poor and vulnerable
Wants the NHS to stay in public ownership
Wants to stop penalising students by putting them into debt
Wants a fair national education system
Wants to encourage a thriving manufacturing economy like the Germans have
Wants all regions of the UK to be given a chance
Isn't keen on the UK joining in wars which are not our business

Is beyond me, it really is. Let the man try.

If he can get our men out of call centres and sandwich shops and back into manufacturing, good on him.
If he can provide the housing and services we need to support immigrants, good on him.
If he can reduce waiting lists for non urgent operations, good on him.
If he can reverse the trend of higher education being only for those with money, good on him.
If he can stop our military personnel being killed for reasons which aren't clearly to our benefit, good on him.

If he can't then it will at least have been tried.

[Alfie]

You may find that your 'reds under the beds' obsession is becoming outdated.

You seem to think the PLP belongs to the 'wimps and incompetents'. It is only 'theirs' if they remain MP's and if they make up a majority of Labour MP's. Labour has always contained a spectrum of opinions, as do most parties.

It remains to be seen how the party will change under Corbyn's leadership, but why people are dead set against a man who;

Cares about the poor and vulnerable
Wants the NHS to stay in public ownership
Wants to stop penalising students by putting them into debt
Wants a fair national education system
Wants to encourage a thriving manufacturing economy like the Germans have
Wants all regions of the UK to be given a chance
Isn't keen on the UK joining in wars which are not our business

Is beyond me, it really is. Let the man try.

If he can get our men out of call centres and sandwich shops and back into manufacturing, good on him.
If he can provide the housing and services we need to support immigrants, good on him.
If he can reduce waiting lists for non urgent operations, good on him.
If he can reverse the trend of higher education being only for those with money, good on him.
If he can stop our military personnel being killed for reasons which aren't clearly to our benefit, good on him.

If he can't then it will at least have been tried.

He can't do ANY of those things if he and his party don't appeal to the public and get themselves elected.  All the evidence to date seems strongly to suggest he doesn't and the leadership qualities required to pull this sinking ship round look decidedly lacking.   It's not JUST about the policies, it's about leadership, communication, trust, security.   

What is Corbyn's position on free movement of people by the way?  It seems to have been the single most important issue as far as Leave voters were concerned, is Jeremy for it or against it now, does anyone really know where he stands?

[Alice Purjorick]

You may find that your 'reds under the beds' obsession is becoming outdated.

You seem to think the PLP belongs to the 'wimps and incompetents'. It is only 'theirs' if they remain MP's and if they make up a majority of Labour MP's. Labour has always contained a spectrum of opinions, as do most parties.

It remains to be seen how the party will change under Corbyn's leadership, but why people are dead set against a man who;

Cares about the poor and vulnerable
Wants the NHS to stay in public ownership
Wants to stop penalising students by putting them into debt
Wants a fair national education system
Wants to encourage a thriving manufacturing economy like the Germans have
Wants all regions of the UK to be given a chance
Isn't keen on the UK joining in wars which are not our business

Is beyond me, it really is. Let the man try.

If he can get our men out of call centres and sandwich shops and back into manufacturing, good on him.
If he can provide the housing and services we need to support immigrants, good on him.
If he can reduce waiting lists for non urgent operations, good on him.
If he can reverse the trend of higher education being only for those with money, good on him.
If he can stop our military personnel being killed for reasons which aren't clearly to our benefit, good on him.

If he can't then it will at least have been tried.

And about as informed as lumping Marx and Trotsky together.

[G-Unit]

He can't do ANY of those things if he and his party don't appeal to the public and get themselves elected.  All the evidence to date seems strongly to suggest he doesn't and the leadership qualities required to pull this sinking ship round look decidedly lacking.   It's not JUST about the policies, it's about leadership, communication, trust, security.   

What is Corbyn's position on free movement of people by the way?  It seems to have been the single most important issue as far as Leave voters were concerned, is Jeremy for it or against it now, does anyone really know where he stands?

The evidence to date must have been heavily influenced by the spectacle of a Party in disarray. He can't be blamed for the disgraceful behaviour of those MP's who seem to have no respect for democracy. It's now up to them to unite behind their leader and concentrate on doing the job they were elected to do; oppose the government. It's called being adults.

Many leave voters were concerned about uncontrolled immigration because they could see services; housing, education, healthcare all being swamped. If the services and infrastructure were in place those people would be likely to be less concerned. Most Brits aren't racist, they are tolerant of other people and cultures, particularly younger people who see a person, not a nationality or colour.

[Alfie]

The evidence to date must have been heavily influenced by the spectacle of a Party in disarray. He can't be blamed for the disgraceful behaviour of those MP's who seem to have no respect for democracy. It's now up to them to unite behind their leader and concentrate on doing the job they were elected to do; oppose the government. It's called being adults.

Many leave voters were concerned about uncontrolled immigration because they could see services; housing, education, healthcare all being swamped. If the services and infrastructure were in place those people would be likely to be less concerned. Most Brits aren't racist, they are tolerant of other people and cultures, particularly younger people who see a person, not a nationality or colour.

You seem to be suggesting that people who are against unlimited immigration and who voted Leave will be happy for immigration to continue unchecked so long as a Labour government spends billions building houses and health care for them.  You cannot be serious can you?!  Is this Jeremy's position too then?  Oh dear...

[stephen25000]

The evidence to date must have been heavily influenced by the spectacle of a Party in disarray. He can't be blamed for the disgraceful behaviour of those MP's who seem to have no respect for democracy. It's now up to them to unite behind their leader and concentrate on doing the job they were elected to do; oppose the government. It's called being adults.

Many leave voters were concerned about uncontrolled immigration because they could see services; housing, education, healthcare all being swamped. If the services and infrastructure were in place those people would be likely to be less concerned. Most Brits aren't racist, they are tolerant of other people and cultures, particularly younger people who see a person, not a nationality or colour.

Corbyn was quite happy to vote against a Labour government mentioned,  over 200 times I believe.

He also was quite happy I heard to have regular elections for a leader.

So that makes him a prize hypocrite if he now complains about Labour M.P.'s not backing him, or future elections.

[G-Unit]

Corbyn was quite happy to vote against a Labour government mentioned,  over 200 times I believe.

He also was quite happy I heard to have regular elections for a leader.

So that makes him a prize hypocrite if he now complains about Labour M.P.'s not backing him, or future elections.

Has he?