Author Topic: The months, weeks and days final trigger points leading up to the massacre:  (Read 2259 times)

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Offline adam

Reading the wills and seeing Sheila would inherit half.

Finding out June may be changing her will.

June and Neville finding out about the caravan break in.

Owing Neville a lot of money.

Sheila moving into the cottage Bamber had spent thousands of pounds and dozens of hours furnishing.

The twins maybe being sent to expensive boarding school Gresham's.

Bamber perhaps moving back into WHF.

Sheila having a greater share in the caravan site.

The blazing row with Neville just before the massacre.

The opportunity at WHF. A rifle and everyone gathered together.

Sheila and the twins enjoying a free summer holiday at WHF.

Another long day working on the farm.

The last minute 'don't be so ridiculous' dismissal from Julie.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 08:31:59 PM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Reading the wills and seeing Sheila would inherit half.

Finding out June may be changing her will.

June and Neville finding out about the caravan break in.

Owing Neville a lot of money.

Sheila moving into the cottage Bamber had spent thousands of pounds and dozens of hours furnishing.

The twins maybe being sent to expensive boarding school Gresham's.

Bamber perhaps moving back into WHF.

Sheila having a greater share in the caravan site.

The blazing row with Neville just before the massacre.

The opportunity at WHF. A rifle and everyone gathered together.

Sheila and the twins enjoying a free summer holiday at WHF.

Another long day working on the farm.

The last minute 'don't be so ridiculous' dismissal from Julie.

I can't imagine any sibling would expect to inherit more than an equal share with any other siblings.  JB received a salary and perks for working on the farm and a dividend payment for his role at OCP. 

Is there any firm evidence June was anticipating changing her will by way of discussions with her accountant and/or solicitor? 

I'm not condoning the OCP break-in but I very much doubt this would change NB's and June's feelings towards JB.  After all they were practicing Christians and no doubt capable of forgiving. 

I believe JB owed NB 1k or 2k for his overseas trip.  Didn't his nieces and nephews owe him many 000's for various land and property deals and projects?  Was NB putting JB under pressure to pay up?  No.  If he was he could have arranged for BW to make deductions from his salary.

Why on earth would SC want to move into JB's cottage in a sleepy village?  SC couldn't drive and had no friends locally.  The contrast between GH and Maida Vale couldn't be greater.  SC was a city girl.

Is there any firm evidence the Bambers were planning on funding the twins through Greshams?

Is there any firm evidence of JB moving back to WHF.  He talked about another property being renovated for him.

I don't believe SC received anything from OCP?  June was going to make a monthly allowance to SC.  About £300 I believe. 

Is there any firm evidence NB had a "blazing row" with JB "just before the massacre"?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

You know that every point can be backed up with sources -
 

'Slaughter at the farm' said Bamber was outraged Sheila, who had not done a days work on the farm, would inherit half. Bamber testified he had seen Neville's will.

Mary Mugford testified Bamber told her June may be changing her will to give the twins more.

'Slaughter at the farm' said June and Neville found out about the caravan break in. June wanted to take action and Bamber was worried about being disinherited.

DB said Bamber owed Neville 2 thousand. So did Bamber in his police interview.

Bamber in his police interview said he had spent about 3 thousand furnishing his flat.

Bamber in his WS said there were discussions about Sheila moving into his cottage.

June and Neville would be keen for the twins to go to the prestigious and expensive Greshams. But agree CC would have the final say.

If Sheila was moving into the cottage. There was more than enough room for Bamber at WHF. He also worked there. Was there somewhere else he could go to ?

There was a recent thread on here about Sheila having influence on the caravan site. Bamber had previously rejected this.

AE's WS says there was a blazing row at the caravan site between Neville and Bamber. Just before the massacre.

There was an opportunity for Bamber to commit the massacre. The police and courts believe so as well.

Sheila and the twins were at WHF on a free holiday.

Bamber in his police interview said he was on his tractor for 8 - 10 hours that evening. 

Julie in her WS said she said to Bamber 'don't be so ridiculous' when he said 'tonights the night'. 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 11:38:45 PM by adam »

Offline adam

Can anyone think of any other trigger points in the short term build up to the massacre ?

Offline scipio_usmc

I can't imagine any sibling would expect to inherit more than an equal share with any other siblings.

What?  It is common for siblings to try to get more and to want more than the rest. My grandmother got screwed out of her inheritance completely by her younger sister.

Worse still is killing to get an inheritance and while not exactly rare luckily it is relatively uncommon.   


Is there any firm evidence NB had a "blazing row" with JB "just before the massacre"?

The evidence establishes Jeremy had long planned to kill everyone so he could inherit the family's wealth and live a privileged life and that this visit is when he would have the opportunity to kill everyone framing Sheila.   There is nothing that suggests he moved up the timetable out of necessity or acted out anger because of something that happened shortly before the murders.  At worst being angry at his family over something recent would just mean he would have less motivation to call it off/ not carry his plot out.

“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Can anyone think of any other trigger points in the short term build up to the massacre ?

Yes since SC's second breakdown CC looked after the twins full-time and he would not have relinquished this role back to SC.  It is obvious from his letter drafted to NB and his discussions with his mother, the twins teachers and Dr F that sadly SC was not well enough to care for the twins.  This would not have changed in the future due to the chronic nature of her illness.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Yes since SC's second breakdown CC looked after the twins full-time and he would not have relinquished this role back to SC.  It is obvious from his letter drafted to NB and his discussions with his mother, the twins teachers and Dr F that sadly SC was not well enough to care for the twins.  This would not have changed in the future due to the chronic nature of her illness.

Do you believe this was sufficient for her to get into such a rage attempt four murders and one suicide ?

If she was not well enough to look after two six year olds, I don't how she could successfully complete the massacre/suicide.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 06:21:01 AM by adam »

Offline adam

What?  It is common for siblings to try to get more and to want more than the rest. My grandmother got screwed out of her inheritance completely by her younger sister.

Worse still is killing to get an inheritance and while not exactly rare luckily it is relatively uncommon.   


The evidence establishes Jeremy had long planned to kill everyone so he could inherit the family's wealth and live a privileged life and that this visit is when he would have the opportunity to kill everyone framing Sheila.   There is nothing that suggests he moved up the timetable out of necessity or acted out anger because of something that happened shortly before the murders.  At worst being angry at his family over something recent would just mean he would have less motivation to call it off/ not carry his plot out.

People may plan big, risky things, but when it comes to actually executing the plan, lose their nerve.

The things on my list helped outweigh the obvious apprehension Bamber would have felt. Anger, resentment, having an opportinity and a last minute 'ridiculous' dismissal by Julie resulted in his midnight cycle ride.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:16:20 AM by adam »

Offline Holly Goodhead

Do you believe this was sufficient for her to get into such a rage attempt four murders and one suicide ?

It is clear from CC's mother's WS, SC was very upset and distressed about the twins no longer living with her.  CC's mother attempted to calm SC but she did not say anything about the twins returning.  We don't know what sort of conversations CC and SC had when she left St Andrews in April '85 re the twins.  It is clear CC was not prepared to relinquish his role of full-time parent to the twins back to SC.   All concerned, incl SC, must have realised the prospect of SC becoming ful-time parent to the twins again was simply not a realistic one due to her illness and inability to care for the twins properly. 

According to JB his parents were making various suggestions to SC eg moving back to Essex, working at OCP and having help caring for the twins by way of foster day care.  Working at OCP was certainly something that was discussed prior to her visit as SC's best friend, Tora Tomkinson, is on record saying SC liked the idea of earning the proposed £70 a week.  Although SC may have liked the idea of work and earning £70 a week I doubt if she was prepared to move back to Essex for this.  Obviously none of us were there to witness the conversations and whether they went on into the small hours.  I think it's likely NB and June pretty much gave SC an ultimatum: either move back to Essex and get the support you need to look after the twins or remain in London and see the twins on CC's terms.  The latter would not have have sat comfortably with the Bambers: CC was an unemployed studio potter, living in rented accommodation with his then girlfriend.

If she was not well enough to look after two six year olds, I don't how she could successfully complete the massacre/suicide.

CC said the twins were having to get themselves ready for school and then wake SC.  He also said she was not attentive towards them: not listening or reponding to them.  I don't see how this precludes someone being unable to load a rifle and fire it?

CC also said SC was highly strung, very violent and would smash up his prized possessions. 

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Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?