Who, when were Police called to OC? When did they arrive? incl GNR PJ & Interpol

[G-Unit]

Perhaps I am getting confused, but 3051/2 seems to be calls made from the OC land-line.

If there is a further call from the OC land-line to GNR Lagos at 11.02 on 4/5/07, I was not aware of that one.  Many thanks.

The call I am thinking of appears in the list of calls received by GNR Lagos on 3 May.  It's the horrible misordered one, but it contains the calls from Securitas to GNR Lagos.

The call in question is from Sylvia's mobile to GNR Lagos, so it will not turn up in OC land-line records.

I guess I need to dig out Sylvia's mobile number, plus the page with the call on it.

Ah, the one I found was from OC to Silvia's mobile! Sorry, SiL!

How about this sheet? 23:08:46

[ShiningInLuz]

Ah, the one I found was from OC to Silvia's mobile! Sorry, SiL!

How about this sheet? 23:08:46

That's the one.

Now to be pedantic, the call started at 23.08.46 and lasted 41 seconds.

Equally, while 964098114 cannot be matched in full to the staff lists due to redaction, enough remains to strongly suggest it is Silvia's mobile, not someone elses.

Quite why Silvia would have the GNR mobile in her mobile and chose not to use an OC land-line is beyond me, but I will stick with the records we have got.

Silvia called GNR Lagos at 23.09, probably to be told that the GNR were already in OC reception.  Even though she glosses over this in her statement.

[ShiningInLuz]

Back to the drawing board

Egg on face time.

[G-Unit]

That's the one.

Now to be pedantic, the call started at 23.08.46 and lasted 41 seconds.

Equally, while 964098114 cannot be matched in full to the staff lists due to redaction, enough remains to strongly suggest it is Silvia's mobile, not someone elses.

Quite why Silvia would have the GNR mobile in her mobile and chose not to use an OC land-line is beyond me, but I will stick with the records we have got.

Silvia called GNR Lagos at 23.09, probably to be told that the GNR were already in OC reception.  Even though she glosses over this in her statement.

I used to have the number of the local police in my mobile contacts. It depends if she had had reason to ring them at another time, I suppose. Perhaps she rang them because of the obvious distress in 5A.

[Robittybob1]

... snip ...

Silvia called GNR Lagos at 23.09, probably to be told that the GNR were already in OC reception.  Even though she glosses over this in her statement.

Silvia's statement does say she was informed the GNR were at the main reception.  If this is how she was informed we have a fixed point in time.  23.09 Silvia at the apartment G5A. 

[Robittybob1]

I used to have the number of the local police in my mobile contacts. It depends if she had had reason to ring them at another time, I suppose. Perhaps she rang them because of the obvious distress in 5A.

Silvia was sent there by her manager Robin Crossland to be an interpreter so it was important for her to be with the GNR when they arrive.

[Robittybob1]

I would like the researchers to consider who it was that travelled with the GNR officers Roque and da Costa, along with Gerry and Silvia.

It is a bit odd in the end that with the involvement of Silvia in the whole affair over the identification of Robert Murat that she doesn't recall who it was.  Was it Russell O'Brien (ROB) or was it Matthew Oldfield (MO)? 

In the research on those calls made by  Silvia I noticed Pegasus had claimed it was MO.   The problem with saying it was MO is that that would make Emma Knight's statement totally impossible.

Maybe Pegasus was wrong.  I'd love to be able to work that out.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6160.msg237938#msg237938
"The GNR spent some time at main reception as the father was there, also MO, and SB who translated what the father said. Then the 2 GNR (and GM MO and SB) went in the GNR car to the apartment.(source: Da Costa statement Oct 2007).
ETA If we allow a few minutes translation at reception and 1 minute drive that gives arrival at 5A at about 2300?"

I don't have a problem with the GNR arriving at reception at 23.00 Hours.   I don't think Pegasus actually says why he thinks this was MO.  It isn't a bad guess as MO was asked to call the police right from the beginning.

[G-Unit]

I would like the researchers to consider who it was that travelled with the GNR officers Roque and da Costa, along with Gerry and Silvia.

It is a bit odd in the end that with the involvement of Silvia in the whole affair over the identification of Robert Murat that she doesn't recall who it was.  Was it Russell O'Brien (ROB) or was it Matthew Oldfield (MO)? 

In the research on those calls made by  Silvia I noticed Pegasus had claimed it was MO.   The problem with saying it was MO is that that would make Emma Knight's statement totally impossible.

Maybe Pegasus was wrong.  I'd love to be able to work that out.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6160.msg237938#msg237938
"The GNR spent some time at main reception as the father was there, also MO, and SB who translated what the father said. Then the 2 GNR (and GM MO and SB) went in the GNR car to the apartment.(source: Da Costa statement Oct 2007).
ETA If we allow a few minutes translation at reception and 1 minute drive that gives arrival at 5A at about 2300?"

I don't have a problem with the GNR arriving at reception at 23.00 Hours.   I don't think Pegasus actually says why he thinks this was MO.  It isn't a bad guess as MO was asked to call the police right from the beginning.

Gerry phoned Kate at 23.17 I believe. That suggests they weren't together so was he on his way back from reception then?

According to Emma Knight Russell was around, but she never mentions Matthew;

 Gerry returned to the apartment accompanied by Russell......I remember being in the main bedroom with Kate, Mrs Payne, Gerry, Russell and David
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

Russell. however, says;

at the time the police arrived he was not present as he was searching for Madeleine.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN.htm

It was Matthew;

 But, erm, we were there about sort of eleven, ten past eleven when the GNR sort of Police arrived and there was two of them in a Police car......So they arrived just about five minutes after Gerry and I had been there. And one of the cleaning ladies I think came to translate, I think this is Sylvia or Sylvie, I'm not sure, but she was there helping, you know, saying, this is, you know, this is the father.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[Robittybob1]

Gerry phoned Kate at 23.17 I believe. That suggests they weren't together so was he on his way back from reception then?

According to Emma Knight Russell was around, but she never mentions Matthew;

 Gerry returned to the apartment accompanied by Russell......I remember being in the main bedroom with Kate, Mrs Payne, Gerry, Russell and David
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

Russell. however, says;

at the time the police arrived he was not present as he was searching for Madeleine.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN.htm

It was Matthew;

 But, erm, we were there about sort of eleven, ten past eleven when the GNR sort of Police arrived and there was two of them in a Police car......So they arrived just about five minutes after Gerry and I had been there. And one of the cleaning ladies I think came to translate, I think this is Sylvia or Sylvie, I'm not sure, but she was there helping, you know, saying, this is, you know, this is the father.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

I appreciate your effort but obviously I'm going to have to ask you for a little assistance to understand your POV.
Tell me  about that phone call from Gerry to Kate please?

[Robittybob1]

Where does this list come from http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg221304#msg221304

Why are some names marked XXXX?

[Robittybob1]

I see my problem now.  There must be a big mistake in the file: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

"23.00/23.05 pm - A GNR patrol arrives at Ocean Club (two men); When they arrived they saw the girl's father, a friend whom GNR Officer N. F. P. d. C. describes as tall and blond, an OC employee and a translator who was also an OC employee, named S.B.. He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which GNR Officer N. F. P. d. C. did not understand.

Estimated time around 23.10 pm Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by E.L.K. when she was on her way to the beach, the search area to which she was assigned by L. J. (child care director and search coordinator).

23:14 Gerry calls Kate (8 seconds)

23:17 Gerry calls Kate (31 seconds)"

That sentence "Estimated time around 23.10 pm Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by E.L.K. when she was on her way to the beach" is given the wrong time frame. 


Emma in the report to Control Risks  mentions this encounter but it must have been a lot earlier than 23.10.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-SEP-07.htm#oa29-p11to14

"Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by Emma Knights when she was on her way to the beach, the search area to which she was assigned by Lyndsey Johnson (child care director and search coordinator)."

When did DP MO or Emma go to the beach?  Does she mention the beach in her statement?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm  she says:
"I returned to the location where the leaflets were being distributed and passed on the information that I had gathered about the missing girl. Lyndsey was busy with the distribution of the leaflets and I went to search in the beach area. On my return I passed by the Duke Pub where I met other members of staff who also joined in the searches." 
That sounds like it happened within the early stages of the Missing Child Procedures.

[G-Unit]

I appreciate your effort but obviously I'm going to have to ask you for a little assistance to understand your POV.
Tell me  about that phone call from Gerry to Kate please?

After her arrival in Portugal on 28th April 2007, with the exception of one incoming call on Wednesday 2nd May 2007 at 11.21 (which, very interestingly, was the Swansea 'wrong number'), and one call from her husband at 23.17 on Thursday 3rd May 2007, everything else has been 'whoosh-clunked' from memory.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

[Eleanor]

After her arrival in Portugal on 28th April 2007, with the exception of one incoming call on Wednesday 2nd May 2007 at 11.21 (which, very interestingly, was the Swansea 'wrong number'), and one call from her husband at 23.17 on Thursday 3rd May 2007, everything else has been 'whoosh-clunked' from memory.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

People do clear their Mobiles from time to time.

[slartibartfast]

People do clear their Mobiles from time to time.

...and the police get suspicious from time to time.

[Mr Gray]

...and the police get suspicious from time to time.

I would hope the police are suspicious all the time