Author Topic: Narcissistic Personality Disorder  (Read 4048 times)

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Offline Admin

Narcissistic Personality Disorder
« on: July 17, 2012, 02:44:19 PM »
Narcissistic Personality Disorder - What is it?

A pattern of traits and behaviors which signify infatuation and obsession with one's self to the exclusion of all others and the egotistic and ruthless pursuit of one's gratification, dominance and ambition.

Most narcissists (75%) are men.

The heart of the beast is the inability of the narcissist to distinguish true from false, posing from being, Narcissistic Supply from genuine relationships and compulsive drives from true interests and avocations in his life. Narcissism is about deceit. It blurs the distinction between authentic actions, true motives, real desires, original emotions – and the malignant forms that are the attributes of narcissism.

Narcissists are no longer capable of knowing themselves. Terrified by their internal apparitions, paralyzed by their lack of authenticity, suppressed by the weight of their repressed emotions – they occupy a hall of mirrors. Their curious, vibrant, optimistic True Self is dead. The False Self is false, the narcissist's permanent diet of reflections obscures the real world.

The narcissist is the product of unjust, capricious and cruel treatment. He is the finished product off a production line of self-recrimination, guilt and fear. He needs to take an antidote to counter the narcissistic poison. But, unfortunately, there is no drug which ameliorates pathological narcissism.

Confronting one's parents and childhood is a good idea if the narcissist feels that he is ready for it. Can he take it? Can he cope with rediscovered truths, however painful? The narcissist must be careful. This is playing with fire. But if he feels confident that there is nothing that can be revealed to him in such a confrontation that he cannot withstand – it is a good and wise move.

My advice to the narcissist would then be: just dedicate a lot of time to rehearsing the encounter and define well what is it exactly that you want to ask. Do not turn this into a monodrama, group dynamics or trial. Ask in order to be enlightened. Don't try to prove anything, to vindicate, to take revenge, to win, to exculpate. Talk to them as you would with yourself. Do not try to sound professional, mature, intelligent, knowledgeable and distanced. There is no "problem to solve" – just a condition to adjust yourself to. Think about it as diabetes.

At the risk of sounding heartless, I will make three concluding comments:

1.     The narcissist should take life in general and himself, in particular, much less seriously. Being immersed in one's self and in one's condition is never the right recipe to functionality, let alone happiness. The world is a comic, absurd place. It is indeed a theatre to be enjoyed. It is full of colors and smells and sounds to be treasured and cherished. It is varied and it accommodates and tolerates everyone and everything, even narcissists.

2.     The narcissist should regard his condition as an asset. I am a narcissist, so I write about it. My advice to the narcissist would be: ask yourself what can you do with it? In Chinese the ideogram for "crisis" and "opportunity" is one and the same. Why don't you transform the curse in your life – into a blessing in other people's lives? Why don't you tell them your story, warn them, teach them how to avoid the same pitfalls, how to cope with the damage? Why don't you do all this in a more institutionalized manner? For instance, you can start a discussion group on the internet. You can establish "Narcissists Anonymous" in some community shelter. You can open a correspondence network, a help centre for men in your condition, for women abused by narcissists ... the possibilities are endless. And it will instill in you a regained sense of self-worth, a purpose, self-confidence and reassurance. It is only by helping others that we can help ourselves.
This is, of course, a suggestion – not a prescription. But it demonstrates the ways in which you can derive power from adversity.

3.     It is easy for the narcissist to think about Pathological Narcissism as the source of all that is evil and wrong in his life. Narcissism is a catchall phrase, a conceptual scapegoat, an evil seed. It conveniently encapsulates the predicament of the narcissist. It introduces logic and causal relations into his baffled, tumultuous world. But this is a trap. The human psyche is too complex to be captured by a single, all-encompassing explanation, however convincing. The road to self-help and self-betterment passes through numerous junctions and stations. Narcissism is the first and the foremost. But there are many other elements in the complex dynamics that is the soul of the narcissist. The narcissist should take responsibility for his life and not relegate it to some hitherto rather obscure psychodynamic concept. This is the first and most important step on the way to healing.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 02:53:50 PM by Admin »

Offline Admin

Re: Narcissistic Personality Disorder
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 02:47:18 PM »
Narcissistic Personality Disorder - Can it be cured?

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is treated in talk therapy (psychodynamic or cognitive-behavioral). The prognosis for an adult narcissist is poor, though his adaptation to life and to others can improve with treatment. Medication is applied to side-effects and behaviours (such as mood or affect disorders and obsession-compulsion) - usually with some success.

NPD is a systemic, all-pervasive condition, very much like pregnancy: either you have it or you don't. Once you have it, you have it day and night, it is an inseparable part of the personality, a recurrent set of behavior patterns.

Recent research shows that there is a condition which might be called "Transient or Temporary or Short Term Narcissism" as opposed to the full-fledged Narcissistic Personality Disorder, (NPD). (Ronningstam, 1996). The phenomenon of "Reactive Narcissistic Regression" or "Acquired Situational Narcissism" is well known: people regress to a transient narcissistic phase in reaction to a major life crisis which threatens their mental composure.

There are narcissistic touches in every personality and in this sense, all of us are narcissists to a certain extent. But this is a far cry from the NPD pathology.

One bit of good news: no one knows why, but, in certain, rare, cases, with age (in one's forties), the disorder - especially its [ censored word]ocial manifestations - seems to decay and, finally, stay on in the form of a subdued mutation of itself. This does not universally occur, though.

Having a relationship with a narcissist sometimes borders on co-dependence, or even symbiosis. Moreover, the narcissist is a consummate emotional manipulator and extortionist.

True, in some cases, there is real threat to his mental stability. Even "demonstrative" (failed) suicide cannot be ruled out in the repertory of narcissistic reactions to abandonment. And even a modest amount of residual love harboured by the narcissist's partner makes the separation very difficult for him or her.

The narcissist is with his partner because he regards IT as a valuable Source of Narcissistic Supply. When the partner ceases to supply him with what he needs – he loses all interest in IT. (I use IT judiciously – the narcissist objectifies his partners, treats them as he would inanimate objects.)

The transition from over-valuation (reserved for potential and actual Sources of Narcissistic Supply) to devaluation (reserved for other mortals) is painfully and shockingly swift. Even partners who previously prayed for the narcissist to depart and leave them alone are anguished. The partner is the narcissist's pusher and the drug that she is purveying (Narcissistic Supply) is potent because it sustains the narcissist's very essence (his False Self).

Without Narcissistic Supply the narcissist disintegrates, crumbles and shrivels – very much as vampires do in horror movies when exposed to sunlight.

The narcissist is a delicately attuned piece of equipment. At the first sign of danger to his inflated, fantastic and grandiose self – he will disappear on you.

Pathological narcissism is very hard to treat successfully. NPD has been recognized as a distinct mental disorder a little more than two decades ago. There is no one who can honestly claim expertise or even in-depth understanding of this complex condition.

So, no one knows whether therapy works. What is known is that therapists find narcissists repulsive, overbearing and unnerving. It is also known that narcissists try to co-opt, play-down or even humiliate the therapist.




« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 02:56:12 PM by Admin »

Offline Admin

Re: Narcissistic Personality Disorder
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 03:04:50 PM »
What is the Difference between a Psychopath and the Narcissist?

The behaviors of narcissists and psychopaths can look very similar in their staggering disregard and abuse of others. Distinctions arise, however, in the explanation of their actions. The narcissist will crave recognition and validation. He will demand that others notice and appreciate his special qualities; his special qualities make his needs special, which leaves him feeling entitled to their satisfaction. He demands all this as if his nner self is at stake, and it is. Disappointment leaves him feeling unappreciated, neglected. Anger and rage then surface in aggressive and passive-aggressive displays, often in proportion to the hurt and vulnerability he can’t own. The psychopath is less obsessed than the narcissist with validation. Indeed, his inner world seems to lack much of anything to validate: it is barren, with nothing in it that would even be responsive to validation.

A lack of empathy, exploiting others for your own gain, and the refusal to be held accountable for the harm you cause others are the cornerstones of sociopathy. If you want to split hairs and say, “No, no, no. Borderlines and Narcissists act in sociopathic ways because they fear abandonment, rejection and feeling and appearing inferior and not because they’re sociopaths,” be my guest.

Finally, there is a very close connection between psychopathic and narcissistic conditions. Both character types reflect a subjectively empty internal world and a dependence on external events to provide self-esteem. Some theorists (Kernberg, 1975; Meloy, 1988) put psychopathy and narcissism on one dimension, characterized overall as narcissistic; the psychopath is considered as on the pathological end of the narcissistic continuum. I would argue that [ censored word]ocial and narcissistic people are different enough to warrant a continuum for each. Most sociopathic people do not idealize repetitively, and most narcissistic ones do not depend on omnipotent control. But many people have aspects of both character types, and self-inflation can characterize either one.

There is no cure for psychopathy and people with this personality disorder are often misdiagnosed, if they do participate in therapy. More often than not, the psychopath will refuse therapy because he believes he does not have a problem. Psychopaths who are forced into counseling will get worse because they use psychology and current research to manipulate the world around them even more. They will be able to mask their personality disorder for longer periods of time, which inevitably does more damage to their victims in the long run.

Whether they're born or made; whether they're classified just right in the DSM or not; whether they're 'mentally ill' or 'emotionally ill;' whether they're severe NPD, 'narcissistic type' or "only" have 'narcissistic tendencies,' doesn't matter here. Leave all that to the university guys. Study it yourself after you're out and away and he's leaving you alone. The abuse hurts you deep and hard no matter what labels and qualifiers are slapped on the narcissist. Try all the maneuvers you want, but if he's close to you, if you're in contact with him, he'll hurt you.

As a counterpart to sociopathy, the condition of Narcissism is, in a metaphorical sense, one half of what sociopathy is. Even clinical Narcissists are able to feel most emotions as strongly as anyone else does, from guilt and sadness to desperate love and passion. The half that is missing is the crucial ability to understand what other people are feeling. Narcissism is a failure not of conscience but of empathy, which is the capacity to perceive emotions in others and to react to them appropriately. The poor Narcissist cannot see past his own nose, emotionally speaking, and any input from the outside will spring back as if nothing had happened. Unlike sociopaths, narcissists often are in psychological pain, and may sometimes seek psychotherapy. When a Narcissist looks for help, one of the underlying issues is usually that, unbeknownst to him, he is alienating his relationships on account of his lack of empathy with others, and is feeling confused, abandoned, and lonely. He misses the people he loves, and is ill-equipped to get them back. Sociopaths, in contrast, do not care about other people, and so do not miss them when they are alienated or gone, except as one might regret the absence of a useful appliance that one had somehow lost.

The clinical tool used to diagnose psychopathy, as developed by Hare, is called the PCL-R. Half of the checklist (Factor 1) correlates with narcissistic personality disorder and defines the core personality traits of psychopathy .

Narcissist or psychopath? Seems the differences are fewer than the similarities. Be aware that either way you are dealing with a psychological predator. Safety is only achieved through distance. You've been warned.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 03:08:45 PM by Admin »

Offline starryian

Re: Narcissistic Personality Disorder
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2012, 03:54:44 PM »
An interesting read Admin,
It shows the link between the two personality types can be indistinguishable or be concurrent within the same individual. I believe that Bamber has both - although the narcissistic element to a lesser extent. He felt the need for validation from Julie Mugford 'I should have been an actor' He revelled in his own ingenuity in thinking that he had gotten away with the 'perfect murder' It was an 'ego-boost for him. This, I believe alongside his psychopathy - his utter inability to feel any guilt, remorse, empathy, sympathy or regret for his own actions that made Jeremy Bamber the cold-blooded, calculating killer that he was. And it is also why he has not admitted to his crimes (the only one of 38 whole life tariff who hasn't) His personality type, I believe is quite unique. Something, I am sure he would take a great deal of satisfaction from.
Starryian..

Offline Joanne

Re: Narcissistic Personality Disorder
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2012, 05:43:16 PM »
Narcissism or Psychopathy - Differences.

Basically the need for attention and acceptance, if it's a prominent and dominating aspect of what drives a person, is a distinctive trait in Narcissism. As such it is not exclusively something psychopaths are known for.

It is often said that psychopaths have strong narcissistic tendencies, and the statement isn't completely wrong. But I also often see statements saying Malignant Narcissism and Psychopathy are the same, and this is not the case. There are some very important fundamental differences between psychopaths and malignant narcissists.

Narcissists may be callous and abusive - malignant narcissists definitely are callous and abusive! - and they lack empathy. These are things they have in common with psychopaths. But narcissists have a very strong emotional need for attention or Attention Seeking, Acceptance and Admiration. Their self esteem depends on whether or not they receive these things, and this makes them very vulnerable to rejection and other forms of negative attention such as humiliation, being out shined by someone else, or of being deliberately or naturally ignored.

Psychopaths do not need attention and we certainly do not need acceptance, at least not just for the sake getting it. Their emotional well being does not depend on whether or not they get these things, but they do play a part for most psychopaths' sense of satisfaction. In this we're probably not that different from normal people: We like to get attention, to be admired and respected just like everybody else, but we do not feel bad if we don't get these things.

For psychopaths getting attention and respect from others is most of all a technique to get what they want without having to resort to coercion - threats, blackmail, and physical violence, i.e. - with the same frequency as we otherwise would. Having attention and respect - and acceptance - from others is really only paramount for as far as it is necessary to avoid the risks associated with the more negative techniques. In short: Attention and acceptance to psychopaths are not goals or ends, they're means to ends.

When we (psychopaths) do care about whether or not we get attention it is not because we have an emotional dependency on being recognized or confirmed by our surroundings. It doesn't matter to us that people speak badly about us, or that they try to avoid us. Being feared makes an opening for controlling those who fear you, and control leads to possible power.

Making sure you get a lot of attention is also a kind of control, it is a potential opener for gaining power, and it is the central, and often the only, reason why we seek to get it.

This is a well known fact, and the entertainment industry - just to mention one - knows and uses it: Make yourself known, make sure people notice you and that they can't overlook you, and you have the basis for influencing how people respond to you.

If people like you, there's a greater chance that they'll support you or help you in other ways, especially if it's mutual. <-- This is what I've chosen to do, but I certainly did not always use a friendly approach. I've been very abusive in the past, and it has worked very well for me too. - But I've changed in many ways, and I find the mutual idea much more interesting now - and that is good, because it keeps me out of prison, and it has created a good possibility for me to actually do something valuable that others can benefit from... But that was a side note.


Narcissists seek attention and acceptance for it's own sake, and are miserable if they don't get it.
Psychopaths seek attention and acceptance because it is part of a technique to get something else. Attention and/or acceptance for it's own sake doesn't matter to how a psychopath feels.

A Narcissist, opposite a psychopath, is very vulnerable to Social Rejection and rejection in general. If you deny them admiration and respect, and - more important still - if you humiliate them publicly, you can crush a narcissist completely (provided you do it right and with timing).


Narcissists get very hurt when they get rejected.
Psychopaths do not feel any emotional pain or discomfort when they get rejected.


No narcissistic person can go through public humiliation and not feel emotionally very disturbed by it. With this knowledge one can destroy a narcissist quite easily... This is the typical area of most psychopaths' expertise, and it is why we so easily can control most narcissistic people. For the same reason most psychopaths have a lot of contempt for narcissistic people. We see individuals who love to abuse and humiliate, but who are even more vulnerable to these things themselves, and it's hard to find it in your heart to respect such people...
- I suspect we may have this in common with most neurotypicals.

Offline starryian

Re: Narcissistic Personality Disorder
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2012, 05:56:21 PM »
Narcissism or Psychopathy - Differences.

Basically the need for attention and acceptance, if it's a prominent and dominating aspect of what drives a person, is a distinctive trait in Narcissism. As such it is not exclusively something psychopaths are known for.

It is often said that psychopaths have strong narcissistic tendencies, and the statement isn't completely wrong. But I also often see statements saying Malignant Narcissism and Psychopathy are the same, and this is not the case. There are some very important fundamental differences between psychopaths and malignant narcissists.

Narcissists may be callous and abusive - malignant narcissists definitely are callous and abusive! - and they lack empathy. These are things they have in common with psychopaths. But narcissists have a very strong emotional need for attention or Attention Seeking, Acceptance and Admiration. Their self esteem depends on whether or not they receive these things, and this makes them very vulnerable to rejection and other forms of negative attention such as humiliation, being out shined by someone else, or of being deliberately or naturally ignored.

Psychopaths do not need attention and we certainly do not need acceptance, at least not just for the sake getting it. Their emotional well being does not depend on whether or not they get these things, but they do play a part for most psychopaths' sense of satisfaction. In this we're probably not that different from normal people: We like to get attention, to be admired and respected just like everybody else, but we do not feel bad if we don't get these things.

For psychopaths getting attention and respect from others is most of all a technique to get what they want without having to resort to coercion - threats, blackmail, and physical violence, i.e. - with the same frequency as we otherwise would. Having attention and respect - and acceptance - from others is really only paramount for as far as it is necessary to avoid the risks associated with the more negative techniques. In short: Attention and acceptance to psychopaths are not goals or ends, they're means to ends.

When we (psychopaths) do care about whether or not we get attention it is not because we have an emotional dependency on being recognized or confirmed by our surroundings. It doesn't matter to us that people speak badly about us, or that they try to avoid us. Being feared makes an opening for controlling those who fear you, and control leads to possible power.

Making sure you get a lot of attention is also a kind of control, it is a potential opener for gaining power, and it is the central, and often the only, reason why we seek to get it.

This is a well known fact, and the entertainment industry - just to mention one - knows and uses it: Make yourself known, make sure people notice you and that they can't overlook you, and you have the basis for influencing how people respond to you.

If people like you, there's a greater chance that they'll support you or help you in other ways, especially if it's mutual. <-- This is what I've chosen to do, but I certainly did not always use a friendly approach. I've been very abusive in the past, and it has worked very well for me too. - But I've changed in many ways, and I find the mutual idea much more interesting now - and that is good, because it keeps me out of prison, and it has created a good possibility for me to actually do something valuable that others can benefit from... But that was a side note.


Narcissists seek attention and acceptance for it's own sake, and are miserable if they don't get it.
Psychopaths seek attention and acceptance because it is part of a technique to get something else. Attention and/or acceptance for it's own sake doesn't matter to how a psychopath feels.

A Narcissist, opposite a psychopath, is very vulnerable to Social Rejection and rejection in general. If you deny them admiration and respect, and - more important still - if you humiliate them publicly, you can crush a narcissist completely (provided you do it right and with timing).


Narcissists get very hurt when they get rejected.
Psychopaths do not feel any emotional pain or discomfort when they get rejected.


No narcissistic person can go through public humiliation and not feel emotionally very disturbed by it. With this knowledge one can destroy a narcissist quite easily... This is the typical area of most psychopaths' expertise, and it is why we so easily can control most narcissistic people. For the same reason most psychopaths have a lot of contempt for narcissistic people. We see individuals who love to abuse and humiliate, but who are even more vulnerable to these things themselves, and it's hard to find it in your heart to respect such people...
- I suspect we may have this in common with most neurotypicals.
Many thanks for that Joanne,
That was really interesting. I agree who would respect anyone who is like this?  8@??)( 8((()*/
Starryian..