Shane Mitchell’s whereabouts during the course of the entire evening?

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
I've just been reminded by a very kind poster on the red forum that I did, in fact, use another username way back - "Angeline" - I'd completely forgotten about that. However, now that I've been reminded, I believe I made it clear who I was and was using that username because I couldn't get into the account under my own name for some reason. So, no suggestion that I was trying to hide my identity there!


Why did I go from “kind” to a “troll” in a matter of months?

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
I didn't mean the actual call was still on Luke's phone - I should have made that clearer. The record of the call going to voicemail is in the phone logs, Corinne said in her statement that she was trying to call Luke to find out what was going on https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9986.msg452488.html#msg452488


Corinne Mitchell’s evidence in court was ”I kept trying to phone him as he was late and in trouble”

[Nicholas]

From memory, she mentions it very briefly -- like it's very incidental and not significant at all -- and rubishes it.

Nicholas, do you think it's possible that LM cycled to the easthouses end of the path after the texts from Jodi on Judith's phone between 1634 - 1639?

Hoaxer Sandra Lean has claimed that JuJ said killer Luke Mitchell was coming up the path on his bike

Wasn’t it then allegedly changed or something or other to him coming up the path with his dog Mia?

Did killer Luke Mitchell often go to meet [Name removed] on his bike?

[Nicholas]

What was Shane Mitchell burning in the back garden that night?

Para 139
“the suspect had, following a barrage of questions to which the questioner had not awaited any answer, conceded that his mother and brother had had a fire on the night of 30 June 2003 in the log burner in the back garden of the house where the suspect lived
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=e2988aa6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

[Nicholas]

And what did hoaxer Sandra Lean write about what John F said about killer Luke Mitchell’s bike ?

John F stated during the trial after seeing a TV news report about attempts to trace two youths on a motorbike it had left him 'shaking'

If you look at another piece of information lithium put out about the many witnesses to Jodi being stabbed in the leg by Luke prior to the murder, in hindsight it’s an astounding allegation! When it’s broken down though it becomes something else.

Sandra Lean
There was only one witness to this and that is John F. No-one else ever made such a claim, even though there were several other people in the flat that night, many of whom gave statements.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9986.msg453126.html#msg453126

Suspect this may have been a reason why [Name removed] went after John F - for not having told anyone about killer Luke Mitchell’s behaviour towards his sister [Name removed] sooner

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
If you mean the statements that his friends were playing with him in the woods, the times they were there, who was there, what Luke was wearing and whether or not Luke said Jodi wasn't coming out, yes, those statements all exist and, with the exception of the later changed account of David High to say Luke said Jodi wasn't coming out (which he hadn't claimed earlier), they all corroborate Luke's movements that night.


 

”The witness told the court that on the evening of 30 June last year, the day when Jodi was killed, he met up with Mr Mitchell at Newbattle Abbey College.

But he noticed Mr Mitchell was by himself.

He told the court: "I asked him where Jodi was because it was unusual for them not to be together.

"He said that she wasn't coming out."

The court heard that when questioned by police after the murder, Mr High had given a slightly different version of that, stating that Mr Mitchell had said Jodi "couldn't" come out.

[Nicholas]

Btw, a relative of mine worked in Shotts Prison for a spell and got to know LM quite well, dealing with him and speaking to him on a daily basis. She indicated that he was likeable, well-mannered, well-spoken and of a nervous disposition, often stuttering in speech and his eyes often blinking almost like a nervous twitch or tick. She also said he was quite small -- around 5ft 4 in height. I found this quite surprising, as he was said to be around this height circa 2003, when he was only 14 years old. I've heard people, Scott Forbes and one of his interviewers who met LM in Polmont YOI when this interviewer was incarcerated there, describe LM as "quite a big laddie who could handle himself". Maybe my female relative was mistaken in terms of his height? Does anyone know how tall LM is?

Corinne Mitchell doesn’t appear to be very tall either - was she shorter than him back in 2003?

Not sure of Sandra Lean’s height but she’s not very tall and photos of her and Corinne Mitchell make them appear to be of similar height. In one photo Sandra appears taller.

[Nicholas]

From memory, she mentions it very briefly -- like it's very incidental and not significant at all -- and rubishes it.

Nicholas, do you think it's possible that LM cycled to the easthouses end of the path after the texts from Jodi on Judith's phone between 1634 - 1639?

Then there’s this
👇
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg20897.html#msg20897

[Nicholas]

Btw, a relative of mine worked in Shotts Prison for a spell and got to know LM quite well, dealing with him and speaking to him on a daily basis. She indicated that he was likeable, well-mannered, well-spoken and of a nervous disposition, often stuttering in speech and his eyes often blinking almost like a nervous twitch or tick. She also said he was quite small -- around 5ft 4 in height. I found this quite surprising, as he was said to be around this height circa 2003, when he was only 14 years old. I've heard people, Scott Forbes and one of his interviewers who met LM in Polmont YOI when this interviewer was incarcerated there, describe LM as "quite a big laddie who could handle himself". Maybe my female relative was mistaken in terms of his height? Does anyone know how tall LM is?

Corinne Mitchell doesn’t appear to be very tall either - was she shorter than him back in 2003?

Not sure of Sandra Lean’s height but she’s not very tall and photos of her and Corinne Mitchell make them appear to be of similar height. In one photo Sandra appears taller.

Sandra Lean is 5.3 and apparently Corinne Mitchell is “an inch or so taller” than Sandra

Claimed (here https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg101160.html#msg101160 ) that he’s about 5.6


I disagree with Sandra Lean’s statement

“All of the documentation about how the "incestuous" relationship rubbish got into the public domain is in the police files - it was a uite deliberate ploy, with no basis whatsoever in fact or reality”

I’m of the view it’s very possible there was a covert incestuous relationship between Corinne and Luke Mitchell

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/enmeshment-and-blurred-boundaries-emotional-incest-explained-0210204

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Push bikes!

Push bikes featured with an almost ridiculous amount of significance in the early investigation, and it was literally years before I discovered why.

The police were running around asking all and sundry what they knew about Luke and push bikes. In their earliest statements, JF and GD "volunteered" stories about Luke and various pushbikes. An account attributed to [Name removed] spoke of Luke swapping one bike for another. GD tried to throw Luke and JF under the bus by claiming JF had stolen a bike, and then swapped it with Luke for one of Luke's bikes. The police took Luke's bike (flat tyres and all) from the wall of the garage at his home for testing. AW spoke of a bike JF had kept in the hallway at her house - JF said it was a rubbish bike, he'd chained it to the railings at the local college and left it there. GD threw in the "yellow framed bike" in his account of his and JFs movements on the path that day. JuJ told the police Luke would come to the house for Jodi either on foot or on his bike.

Why? Why so much focus on push bikes?

Well, it turns out that JuJ told police Luke had told her on the phone, just before 11pm, that he was at the Newbattle entrance to the path and was coming up on his bike. What he actually said was he was coming up with his dog. The search trio was already at the top of the path when Luke arrived - did they too expect him earlier because he was on his bike? AW expressed surprise that he had the dog with him.

I can see the earliest investigators thinking,, hang on, there's something not right here - what's he done with the bike, since, from the moment they left JuJ's house at 23.18, they were already suspicious of Luke, believing he had left JuJ's house with Jodi at tea-time and was now claiming not to have seen her all evening. One officer believed Luke was "galloping about behind the school" when he (Luke), and the others, hadn't moved from the V point, and another claimed Luke had "led his officers a merry dance."

\Where did that early misinformation, and the suspicion about bikes come from? And more to the point,, why? Who, in reality, could mistake "on my bike" for "with my dog"? For clarity, JuJ corrected this herself, but not until some weeks later - in between times, everyone was still under the impression that either Luke was on his bike that night, or that for some reason, he had lied to JuJ about it. Neither was true, but nobody except JuJ knew that.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg386893.html#msg386893

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
\Where did that early misinformation, and the suspicion about bikes come from? And more to the point,, why? Who, in reality, could mistake "on my bike" for "with my dog"? For clarity, JuJ corrected this herself, but not until some weeks later - in between times, everyone was still under the impression that either Luke was on his bike that night, or that for some reason, he had lied to JuJ about it. Neither was true, but nobody except JuJ knew that.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg386893.html#msg386893

Maybe it wasn’t ‘misinformation’ as Sandra Lean claimed and killer Luke Mitchell did mention being “on his bike” to JuJ and was referring to earlier in the evening?

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Push bikes!

Push bikes featured with an almost ridiculous amount of significance in the early investigation, and it was literally years before I discovered why.

I can see the earliest investigators thinking,, hang on, there's something not right here -
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg386893.html#msg386893

Maybe something was not right!?

Maybe killer Luke Mitchell (or Shane Mitchell) did scrap his other bike - as has been suggested previously

[Nicholas]

From memory, she mentions it very briefly -- like it's very incidental and not significant at all -- and rubishes it.

Nicholas, do you think it's possible that LM cycled to the easthouses end of the path after the texts from Jodi on Judith's phone between 1634 - 1639?

Sandra Lean
Push bikes!

Push bikes featured with an almost ridiculous amount of significance in the early investigation, and it was literally years before I discovered why.

The police were running around asking all and sundry what they knew about Luke and push bikes. In their earliest statements, JF and GD "volunteered" stories about Luke and various pushbikes. An account attributed to [Name removed] spoke of Luke swapping one bike for another. GD tried to throw Luke and JF under the bus by claiming JF had stolen a bike, and then swapped it with Luke for one of Luke's bikes. The police took Luke's bike (flat tyres and all) from the wall of the garage at his home for testing. AW spoke of a bike JF had kept in the hallway at her house - JF said it was a rubbish bike, he'd chained it to the railings at the local college and left it there. GD threw in the "yellow framed bike" in his account of his and JFs movements on the path that day. JuJ told the police Luke would come to the house for Jodi either on foot or on his bike.
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg386893.html#msg386893

Yet hoaxer Sandra Lean doesn’t include what was known about killer Luke Mitchell’s bikes and how many he had and all what ‘all and sundry’ knew about his bikes ?

 

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Luke's next door neighbour told police that he saw Luke out on the street, heading for his house at "about 10 o'clock or a little after." I've never quite worked out where the police were trying to go with this - I think it was in some way trying to frame an opportunity for Luke to have disposed of the weapon or clothing.

Here are the known facts - Luke returned home at 9.30pm (based on testimony from the other boys he was hanging around with that night.) He took Mia out for her last walk at around 10.20 - 10.30 - it was during this walk that he received JuJ's text intended for Jodi.

If we insert neighbour's sighting into that, the prosecution case is that Luke, having escaped unnoticed, cleaned up and been identified sitting, perfectly normal,  on a wall at the end of his street by 5.45pm, messed around in the woods with his mates, returned home, went out again to be seen returning half an hour later (having disposed of the weapon - the clothing part was dropped when they decided Corinne had burned it in the garden), went out again 20 - 30 minutes later to take the dog for a walk.

Really? Luke normally returned home after 10, having seen Jodi home for her curfew of 10pm. Interestingly, the neighbour's wife could not back up her husband's claim of seeing Luke "at or a little after" 10pm - it's equally possible the neighbour assumed Luke was returning at his normal time because that was what he (the neighbour) was used to seeing.

If Luke really was the cunning mastermind they tried to paint him as, wouldn't it have made more sense to "dispose of the weapon" under the cover of taking the dog for a walk, rather than drawing attention to himself with all that toing and froing?

Aside from the ludicrous scenario above, the prosecution would have us believe Luke returned home, cleaned up (without leaving any forensic traces in the house), left his blood stained clothing with his mother to burn while he went out to be seen at the end of his street. His mother then waited an hour and a quarter before trying to burn the clothing. An hour later,, it rained heavily, presumably putting the fire out, because it was lit again (these are prosecution claims, remember) an hour and a half to two hours later, with no accelerants, and burned so fiercely that it destroyed every single forensic trace - zips, metal studs, melted synthetic fabrics, threads, everything. The neighbour didn't have to close the window to keep the smoke from this inferno out - he "liked" the smell of woodsmoke.

Meanwhile, Jodi had been "missing" - at least from her parents' perspective, for more than 4 hours - her body could have been found at any time. There was no time dispose of the ash from the burner and replace it with "innocent ash" - Luke and Corinne were in the police station from half past midnight to 7am the following morning, and were under police surveillance from then on.

How people actually believed  this nonsense is beyond me. https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,551.msg386928.html#msg386928

Shane Mitchell wasn’t and the police didn’t go to the Mitchell’s house until the 2nd of July 2003

[Nicholas]

Sandra Lean
Aside from the ludicrous scenario above, the prosecution would have us believe Luke returned home, cleaned up (without leaving any forensic traces in the house)

Why would he have left ‘forensic traces in the house’’?

During the police search of the Mitchell house did they also find disposable gloves?