UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧

Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Mark Alexander was in September 2010 convicted of the murder of his elderly reclusive father Samuel (70), an Egyptian-born former University lecturer. => Topic started by: Daisy on March 05, 2017, 11:59:49 AM

Title: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on March 05, 2017, 11:59:49 AM
Dad was admitted to hospital on 23rd May 2008 for a colostomy operation.  It took him a good 6 months to recover and I put off plans to move to London that year so that I could be there for him and nurse him back to health.

“Mark looked after his dad and did all the shopping.  He was always there.  He seemed to be concerned about his father’s poor health.  I thought it was an admirable relationship; Mark was doing his studies and looking after his father.  He was incredibly attentive towards him” JPi
“Mark had been commuting from his home on a pretty much daily basis to care for his dad who was bedridden and needed Mark for things like changing his colostomy bag.  Sami told me that he found it frustrating that Mark had to do everything for him.  I was impressed with how well Mark coped with his situation.” SN

Once I had got him back on his feet he was in much better spirits and could be seen driving, bricklaying, and fence post fixing.  As the Honourable Judge Reddihough noted in his sentencing remarks, “There is clear evidence before the court that by the time of this offence Sami had made a reasonably good recovery from the illness he had suffered.”

“I saw Sami and told him I thought he looked much better.  He thanked me and said that he felt much better, in fact he said, a lot, lot better.”KS
“It appears that (Sami) misrepresented his health status to Adult Social Care.  It is possible (that he) may have fraudulently secured Direct Payments having given incomplete information about his income.” Serious Case Review – May 2011.

By 2009 dad was employing cleaners and housekeepers rather than ‘carers’ per se.  Service users “have flexibility over the way that the money is spent and what types of service/ support they purchase in order to meet their assessed needs.”  This could cover anything from cooking meals to doing the shopping, so could be very broadly interpreted.  The Serious Case Review noted one respondent who “declined to take up Samuel’s advert for a person assistant to help with care-giving, reflecting that “he wanted a slave, not a carer.”


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Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 05, 2017, 01:42:01 PM
By 2009 dad was employing cleaners and housekeepers rather than ‘carers’ per se.  Service users “have flexibility over the way that the money is spent and what types of service/ support they purchase in order to meet their assessed needs.”  This could cover anything from cooking meals to doing the shopping, so could be very broadly interpreted.  The Serious Case Review noted one respondent who “declined to take up Samuel’s advert for a person assistant to help with care-giving, reflecting that “he wanted a slave, not a carer.”

So if Sami was employing these people what did he tell them before his disappearance?

....or as I suspect, none of these people have been identified?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on March 05, 2017, 08:29:17 PM
So if Sami was employing these people what did he tell them before his disappearance?

....or as I suspect, none of these people have been identified?

Well Social Services were aware of this person so there were obviously others who replied to his advert. More to follow on this subject.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 06, 2017, 02:12:57 PM
Well Social Services were aware of this person so there were obviously others who replied to his advert. More to follow on this subject.

Wasn't it a case that Sami, like many elderly people, didn't want strangers in his home so avoided employing people.  Isn't that also the real reason why Mark did the caring for his father when he was recuperating and not properly trained carers?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 14, 2017, 02:01:42 PM
Wasn't it a case that Sami, like many elderly people, didn't want strangers in his home so avoided employing people.  Isn't that also the real reason why Mark did the caring for his father when he was recuperating and not properly trained carers?

On the other hand, he could have used 'slave labour'  rife in the 'care' industry. The 'gang masters' could have killed Sami?  Yes, fantastic I know but still it is a theory.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on March 14, 2017, 04:05:28 PM
On the other hand, he could have used 'slave labour'  rife in the 'care' industry. The 'gang masters' could have killed Sami?  Yes, fantastic I know but still it is a theory.


We know so little about how Sami led his life, and with whom he associated, that anything seems possible !!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 14, 2017, 06:34:43 PM
On the other hand, he could have used 'slave labour'  rife in the 'care' industry. The 'gang masters' could have killed Sami?  Yes, fantastic I know but still it is a theory.

His son would have known.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on March 14, 2017, 06:49:16 PM

We know so little about how Sami led his life, and with whom he associated, that anything seems possible !!

There are lots of mysteries and it appears Sami led a double life which Mark wasn't even aware of.  I was really hoping someone from the Drayton Parslow area would see this board.  There are people out there who know something - it is just finding them which is the problem.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 24, 2017, 09:52:10 PM
His son would have known.

Really? Hmm My sister didn't know her husband was having an affair with their neighbour for 5 years!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Angelo222 on March 27, 2017, 12:11:22 PM
Really? Hmm My sister didn't know her husband was having an affair with their neighbour for 5 years!

lucky neighbour     @)(++(*  but then I assume they weren't doing it in the garden by the garage?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 28, 2017, 07:24:04 PM
Clearly, Sami was receiving a full care package but wasn't employing anyone to care for him in the latter days of his life.  Question is, was this out of choice or had control been taken away from him?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on March 29, 2017, 07:03:55 AM
Clearly, Sami was receiving a full care package but wasn't employing anyone to care for him in the latter days of his life.  Question is, was this out of choice or had control been taken away from him?

We haven't got a definitive date when careers were last seen going into the house.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 30, 2017, 02:40:07 PM
We haven't got a definitive date when careers were last seen going into the house.

Had there been a carer or carers in place at the time of Sami's murder they would have reported him missing or been told by the client that their services were not required because he was going away for a while.  Carers working in the community are trained to observe unusual occurrences with elderly people in their care.  Had a carer turned up and found Sami missing he or she's first port of call would have been the neighbours and then the police.  This never happened so it was unlikely that there was any carer looking after Sami.  Certainly there is no evidence that anyone was attending him at the time of his death despite receiving a full care package.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on March 31, 2017, 09:03:17 AM
Had there been a carer or carers in place at the time of Sami's murder they would have reported him missing or been told by the client that their services were not required because he was going away for a while.  Carers working in the community are trained to observe unusual occurrences with elderly people in their care.  Had a carer turned up and found Sami missing he or she's first port of call would have been the neighbours and then the police.  This never happened so it was unlikely that there was any carer looking after Sami.  Certainly there is no evidence that anyone was attending him at the time of his death despite receiving a full care package.


I disagree. The carers answered Samis advert in the paper. As they were being paid cash in hand they certainly wouldn't risk being prosecuted for not paying tax or national insurance  so this is why they didn't report anything. They would have gone looking for the next job to make some ready cash. The neighbours have already said they saw carers going in and out as I have stated in previous posts
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on March 31, 2017, 09:47:59 AM

I disagree. The carers answered Samis advert in the paper. As they were being paid cash in hand they certainly wouldn't risk being prosecuted for not paying tax or national insurance  so this is why they didn't report anything. They would have gone looking for the next job to make some ready cash. The neighbours have already said they saw carers going in and out as I have stated in previous posts


And, I know it isn't nice to say this, but if Sami was a difficult man, and did not treat his carers well, perhaps they were somewhat relieved not to find him in, and were none too bothered about where he might have gone. They were free to find a better job.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 31, 2017, 09:02:57 PM

I disagree. The carers answered Samis advert in the paper. As they were being paid cash in hand they certainly wouldn't risk being prosecuted for not paying tax or national insurance  so this is why they didn't report anything. They would have gone looking for the next job to make some ready cash. The neighbours have already said they saw carers going in and out as I have stated in previous posts

Daisy, you might not realise it but carers have to be registered and certified in the work they do.  We aren't talking about casual Mrs Mops here.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on March 31, 2017, 09:05:03 PM

And, I know it isn't nice to say this, but if Sami was a difficult man, and did not treat his carers well, perhaps they were somewhat relieved not to find him in, and were none too bothered about where he might have gone. They were free to find a better job.

If they found him difficult they wouldn't have worked for him in the first place.  I'm afraid these excuses just don't wash.  There were no carers in place so nobody missed him...very convenient eh?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 01, 2017, 01:05:31 PM
If they found him difficult they wouldn't have worked for him in the first place.  I'm afraid these excuses just don't wash.  There were no carers in place so nobody missed him...very convenient eh?

Or cash in hand people? However, he would still have a phone number of one of them if he needed extra help.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on April 02, 2017, 04:54:25 PM
Or cash in hand people? However, he would still have a phone number of one of them if he needed extra help.

Another good point, no doubt he would have recorded their details in a phone, a diary, a notebook etc...  The thing is that Mark has never been able to account for anything or anyone.  The mysterious builders, the distant acquaintances, the home helps, the carers.  The list is endless.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 02, 2017, 07:31:06 PM
Another good point, no doubt he would have recorded their details in a phone, a diary, a notebook etc...  The thing is that Mark has never been able to account for anything or anyone.  The mysterious builders, the distant acquaintances, the home helps, the carers.  The list is endless.

It may seem odd to you but everyone's lives are different. I know married women who have never known how much their husbands earn. I find that unbelievable. Maybe Sami had phone numbers etc stored on his computer which the police will not release to the defence. The only people obstructing this case are the police!!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 03, 2017, 11:32:06 PM
It may seem odd to you but everyone's lives are different. I know married women who have never known how much their husbands earn. I find that unbelievable. Maybe Sami had phone numbers etc stored on his computer which the police will not release to the defence. The only people obstructing this case are the police!!

Daisy I am willing to accept that Sami had secrets from his son. I am struggling with there being NOTHING  not a thing=zero evidence of anyone being in contact and no forensic  evidence of anyone else being in that house.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 04, 2017, 07:11:30 AM
Daisy I am willing to accept that Sami had secrets from his son. I am struggling with there being NOTHING  not a thing=zero evidence of anyone being in contact and no forensic  evidence of anyone else being in that house.

Do we know if the police did a forensic sweep of the house? I think once they suspected Mark they looked no further and made him fit the crime.  I am reading Bob Woffindon's book at the moment and it is disgusting that in all cases the police didn't follow up leads or make enquirers once they had their suspect. I wonder why the police won't return Sami's computer. If there is nothing on it then there is no reason to keep it.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on April 04, 2017, 10:10:52 AM
Do we know if the police did a forensic sweep of the house? I think once they suspected Mark they looked no further and made him fit the crime.  I am reading Bob Woffindon's book at the moment and it is disgusting that in all cases the police didn't follow up leads or make enquirers once they had their suspect. I wonder why the police won't return Sami's computer. If there is nothing on it then there is no reason to keep it.

Which Bob Woffinden book are you reading, Daisy?  I am currently reading the one he wrote in conjunction with Sion Jenkins, about Billie-Jo's murder. I, too, am disgusted by some of the things that went on!

As for John's comment about there being no forensics in the house, I say exactly the same thing about Vincent Tabak's DNA being absent from the flat where he is supposed to have killed Joanna Yeates (see our thread, if you are interested).

Has anyone asked the police why they wont return Sami's computer? Sounds fishy to me-----but then, lots of things about lots of cases sound fishy to me!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on April 04, 2017, 10:16:12 AM
It may seem odd to you but everyone's lives are different. I know married women who have never known how much their husbands earn. I find that unbelievable. Maybe Sami had phone numbers etc stored on his computer which the police will not release to the defence. The only people obstructing this case are the police!!

This comment made me smile!  My husband and I have been married for over 40 years. I never knew exactly how much he earned-----he would have told me, but I didn't ask! He never knew exactly how much I earned either, and he didn't ask. I do not know how much money he has in the bank, nor does he know how much I have. We have never had a joint account, apart from the mortgage.
On the other hand, I have a friend who divorced her husband, partly because she discovered that he had a "secret" bank account. I find that unbelievable, so, yes, we are obviously all different!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on April 04, 2017, 03:39:10 PM
It may seem odd to you but everyone's lives are different. I know married women who have never known how much their husbands earn. I find that unbelievable. Maybe Sami had phone numbers etc stored on his computer which the police will not release to the defence. The only people obstructing this case are the police!!

And maybe he hasn't.  What is clear in this case is that nothing adds up to a miscarriage of justice and everything points to a coverup and charade by the son.  Marks story about his father going off on his own has nothing to support it.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 04, 2017, 07:06:15 PM
Which Bob Woffinden book are you reading, Daisy?  I am currently reading the one he wrote in conjunction with Sion Jenkins, about Billie-Jo's murder. I, too, am disgusted by some of the things that went on!

As for John's comment about there being no forensics in the house, I say exactly the same thing about Vincent Tabak's DNA being absent from the flat where he is supposed to have killed Joanna Yeates (see our thread, if you are interested).

Has anyone asked the police why they wont return Sami's computer? Sounds fishy to me-----but then, lots of things about lots of cases sound fishy to me!

I am reading The Nicholas cases. Just finished the chapter on Glyn Razzel. That poor man- he has given lots of evidence to prove he is innocent and the police have ignored evidence pointing elsewhere. I will read the Vincent Tabak thread although I read about it at the time and thought he was guilty. He hasn't appealed has he to my knowledge?

The police can just refuse to release information or DNA for analysis as they did very publicly in the Kevin Nunn case. They gave no reason. Police work has nothing to do with finding out the truth which is sad.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 04, 2017, 07:14:37 PM
And maybe he hasn't.  What is clear in this case is that nothing adds up to a miscarriage of justice and everything points to a coverup and charade by the son.  Marks story about his father going off on his own has nothing to support it.

It may not add up to you. We all know why Mark told the neighbours his dad had gone away. He has explained that he did it to save embarrassment. We all tell white lies occasionally. I have certainly told people who ring that my husband is out when he doesn't want to speak to them and other people will identify with me. Of course these don't matter generally but in a murder enquiry these untruths become highly significant and the prosecution pounces on them.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on April 04, 2017, 07:16:09 PM
I am reading The Nicholas cases. Just finished the chapter on Glyn Razzel. That poor man- he has given lots of evidence to prove he is innocent and the police have ignored evidence pointing elsewhere. I will read the Vincent Tabak thread although I read about it at the time and thought he was guilty. He hasn't appealed has he to my knowledge?

The police can just refuse to release information or DNA for analysis as they did very publicly in the Kevin Nunn case. They gave no reason. Police work has nothing to do with finding out the truth which is sad.

I have read about Glyn Razzell, and I believe he is innocent. I know I am in the minority concerning Vincent Tabak, and I know I could be wrong, but it does not sit well with me, even though he pleaded guilty.
I know nothing about Kevin Nunn, and must read about him. What made you interested in Mark's case, which I had never heard of before, until I came onto your thread. Sami certainly led an unusual life.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 04, 2017, 07:24:49 PM
I have read about Glyn Razzell, and I believe he is innocent. I know I am in the minority concerning Vincent Tabak, and I know I could be wrong, but it does not sit well with me, even though he pleaded guilty.
I know nothing about Kevin Nunn, and must read about him. What made you interested in Mark's case, which I had never heard of before, until I came onto your thread. Sami certainly led an unusual life.

I had been helping Paul Bush whose case you can read about on here. I worked with his Caseworker and his Barrister and due to him being represented at his first appeal by the fake lawyer Giovanni di Stefanno, he was given the right to appeal again without going through the CCRC. They dismissed it and Paul went into a downward spiral, writing to all his friends saying he wanted no more contact with anyone. I replied to him and said I would still support him but he never replied. I then went onto mojuk.org.uk and looked through various cases and decided to contact Mark. The rest is history.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on April 04, 2017, 09:56:22 PM
It may not add up to you. We all know why Mark told the neighbours his dad had gone away. He has explained that he did it to save embarrassment. We all tell white lies occasionally. I have certainly told people who ring that my husband is out when he doesn't want to speak to them and other people will identify with me. Of course these don't matter generally but in a murder enquiry these untruths become highly significant and the prosecution pounces on them.

Yes, we do know why Mark told everyone who asked why his father had gone away but your reason differs greatly from mine. If he had gone away his car and personal effects would have gone with him but they didn't. 

And then months later he is found by police buried in the back garden proving he didn't go away at all but was murdered.  Meanwhile all the time his son lied to cover up what had occurred and spun a yarn which few take seriously.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 06, 2017, 07:06:57 AM
Yes, we do know why Mark told everyone who asked why his father had gone away but your reason differs greatly from mine. If he had gone away his car and personal effects would have gone with him but they didn't. 

And then months later he is found by police buried in the back garden proving he didn't go away at all but was murdered.  Meanwhile all the time his son lied to cover up what had occurred and spun a yarn which few take seriously.


Mark has a huge amount of support and is believed by many including his MP and Terry Waite.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on April 07, 2017, 09:52:04 AM

Mark has a huge amount of support and is believed by many including his MP and Terry Waite.


From what I have read,  more than a few are taking Mark's case seriously-------come on John, we are not talking Vincent Tabak here !!!!

It IS a very strange case though, and I have, as yet, no clear view either way. I cannot understand Sami's lifestyle at all, and I wonder what he might have been involved in, to be so secretive.  From what we know, it is perfectly possible that he made serious enemies, and possible that one of these might have killed him.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 09, 2017, 12:38:19 PM

From what I have read,  more than a few are taking Mark's case seriously-------come on John, we are not talking Vincent Tabak here !!!!

It IS a very strange case though, and I have, as yet, no clear view either way. I cannot understand Sami's lifestyle at all, and I wonder what he might have been involved in, to be so secretive.  From what we know, it is perfectly possible that he made serious enemies, and possible that one of these might have killed him.

I agree withh all that Mrsw.

I am also unsure, however the possibility is there for others who hated him to kill him. or kill him for money.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on April 09, 2017, 01:31:15 PM

Mark has a huge amount of support and is believed by many including his MP and Terry Waite.

I don't doubt that Daisy and that is why we are here discussing the case.  The difficulty is though that all we have seen so far is hearsay with little or no evidence to support Mark's claims of total innocence. In fact, the entire Sami went off on his own story is a Mark concoction so I wonder how anyone with doubts including MP's and Terry Waite can explain this?

There are many other factors of course which have never been satisfactorily explained.  The burial at the family home however is probably the greatest obstacle, only Mark Alexander had unlimited access to the family home, the adjacent garage and the garden.  Only he had the means and opportunity to dig a grave alongside the garage and fill it in over a period of time in multiple layers in a hastily organised manner using an amateurish mixture of mortar and cement.  If Sami had been murdered at home by a third party I have no doubt whatsoever that Mark would have been onto the police instantly.  Maybe Terry Waite can explain his belief in Mark's innocence taking these factors into account.  I bet he won't though!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on April 09, 2017, 02:10:46 PM
Mark was away at college for a lot of the time, so how can we know that he was the only person who had access to the family home? 

John, how do you explain the fact that there were three layers of concrete concealing Sami's body. Mark admits to having laid the top layer, and this, allegedly, was done in an amateur fashion, whereas the other layers seemed to have been professionally done.  Are you suggesting that Mark got someone else to bury his father's body?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on April 10, 2017, 11:30:32 AM
Mark was away at college for a lot of the time, so how can we know that he was the only person who had access to the family home? 

John, how do you explain the fact that there were three layers of concrete concealing Sami's body. Mark admits to having laid the top layer, and this, allegedly, was done in an amateur fashion, whereas the other layers seemed to have been professionally done.  Are you suggesting that Mark got someone else to bury his father's body?

Believe me, he would have known as would the neighbours.

As far as the three layers are concerned it isn't a mystery.  When someone is intent upon disposing of a body in a back garden of a house located in a housing estate it isn't the best idea to draw attention to it because if it later becomes public knowledge that the elderly resident of said property has mysteriously gone missing...well, you know the rest.

The person who dug the shallow grave and then filled it over with mortar had to do so probably in the hours of darkness while neighbours were asleep. He would only be able to bring small quantities of sand and cement to the house in order not to attract unwanted attention.  Thus we have multiple layers of what can only be described as a chaotic mess of mortar. I have no doubt that several trips were made to the house secretly and without anyone noticing.  In the end this person, whom we now know to be the victim's son, Mark Alexander, decided he would order a small load of premix concrete and apply that over his own handiwork. The pretext for this effort being that underpinning of the garage wall was required. 

As previously discussed, underpinning is not something an amateur would tackle, it usually requires a surveyors report. Thereafter the wall to be underpinned is excavated under and jacked up before concrete is injected underneath and allowed to cure properly before the jacks or props are removed.  None of this took place at the Alexander's residence.  I am quite sure however that had this work really been needed that the owner of the property, Samuel Alexander, would have been in attendance to oversee it.

As I stated earlier, none of what Mark Alexander claims stands up to scrutiny, I am yet to be persuaded.

Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on May 01, 2017, 12:27:17 PM
Believe me, he would have known as would the neighbours.

As far as the three layers are concerned it isn't a mystery.  When someone is intent upon disposing of a body in a back garden of a house located in a housing estate it isn't the best idea to draw attention to it because if it later becomes public knowledge that the elderly resident of said property has mysteriously gone missing...well, you know the rest.

The person who dug the shallow grave and then filled it over with mortar had to do so probably in the hours of darkness while neighbours were asleep. He would only be able to bring small quantities of sand and cement to the house in order not to attract unwanted attention.  Thus we have multiple layers of what can only be described as a chaotic mess of mortar. I have no doubt that several trips were made to the house secretly and without anyone noticing.  In the end this person, whom we now know to be the victim's son, Mark Alexander, decided he would order a small load of premix concrete and apply that over his own handiwork. The pretext for this effort being that underpinning of the garage wall was required. 

As previously discussed, underpinning is not something an amateur would tackle, it usually requires a surveyors report. Thereafter the wall to be underpinned is excavated under and jacked up before concrete is injected underneath and allowed to cure properly before the jacks or props are removed.  None of this took place at the Alexander's residence.  I am quite sure however that had this work really been needed that the owner of the property, Samuel Alexander, would have been in attendance to oversee it.

As I stated earlier, none of what Mark Alexander claims stands up to scrutiny, I am yet to be persuaded.



I still have questions about the underpinning but don't have enough knowledge to be absolutely convinced of what Mark is saying. Thank you for your continued explanations John and I will put more questions to Mark. I sent him the last batch of questions a few weeks' ago but he is in the middle of exams at the moment and will answer them once he has finished.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on May 01, 2017, 03:51:22 PM


I still have questions about the underpinning but don't have enough knowledge to be absolutely convinced of what Mark is saying. Thank you for your continued explanations John and I will put more questions to Mark. I sent him the last batch of questions a few weeks' ago but he is in the middle of exams at the moment and will answer them once he has finished.

No problem Daisy. 

As to underpinning, it is a reasonably simple process but it involves digging a large hole alongside the offending wall and jacking it up before pouring engineering strength concrete underneath. The concrete is allowed to mature before the jacks are removed and the remaining hole reinstated.  Underpinning is not what occurred at the Alexander's garage.

(http://fthmb.tqn.com/aWxsgP2vDgbUFqV_lnparHMluF8=/1280x720/filters:fill(auto,1)/about/underpinning-572c0fe13df78c038e819007.jpg)

(http://www.abcanchors.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PB106085.jpg)
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 13, 2017, 08:25:27 PM
No problem Daisy. 

As to underpinning, it is a reasonably simple process but it involves digging a large hole alongside the offending wall and jacking it up before pouring engineering strength concrete underneath. The concrete is allowed to mature before the jacks are removed and the remaining hole reinstated.  Underpinning is not what occurred at the Alexander's garage.

(http://fthmb.tqn.com/aWxsgP2vDgbUFqV_lnparHMluF8=/1280x720/filters:fill(auto,1)/about/underpinning-572c0fe13df78c038e819007.jpg)


(http://www.abcanchors.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PB106085.jpg)

What did occur? great place to conceal a body!
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: John on May 14, 2017, 05:40:52 PM
What did occur? great place to conceal a body!

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/09/08/article-1310193-0B17C7CA000005DC-359_468x294.jpg)
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on April 26, 2018, 09:50:14 PM
There are lots of mysteries and it appears Sami led a double life which Mark wasn't even aware of.  I was really hoping someone from the Drayton Parslow area would see this board.  There are people out there who know something - it is just finding them which is the problem.

Mark was the one leading the double life and only Mark knows all the details
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 07:16:51 AM
Mark was the one leading the double life and only Mark knows all the details

No Sami was the one leading a double life. The police discovered he had many aliases, several mobile phones and acquaintances that Mark knew nothing about. What Mark was told by the police really shocked him as he had no idea of his fathers activities.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 08:02:22 AM
No Sami was the one leading a double life. The police discovered he had many aliases, several mobile phones and acquaintances that Mark knew nothing about. What Mark was told by the police really shocked him as he had no idea of his fathers activities.

Mark murdered and buried his fathers body then went all out to cover his tracks; I'd call that leading a double life.

Amazing how one minute Mark claims to be upset by his fathers murder, then the next he's publishing details relating to his father that could have the potential of painting him in a poor light.

Even you are discrediting his father, on Marks behalf, as though he were the perpetrator?

Though I do not believe there is any malice in what you are doing Daisy.

The point is, Mark has convinced you with all his claims, so you may feel you need to defend him.

"There is a class of individuals who have been around forever and who are found in every race, culture, society and walk of life. Everybody has met these people, been deceived and manipulated by them, and forced to live with or repair the damage they have wrought. These often charming—but always deadly—individuals have a clinical name: psychopaths. Their hallmark is a stunning lack of conscience; their game is self-gratification at the other person's expense. Many spend time in prison, but many do not. All take far more than they give.

The most obvious expressions of psychopathy—but not the only ones—involve the flagrant violation of society's rules. Not surprisingly, many psychopaths are criminals, but many others manage to remain out of prison, using their charm and chameleon-like coloration to cut a wide swathe through society, leaving a wake of ruined lives behind them.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/199401/charming-psychopath
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 08:24:21 AM
Mark murdered and buried his fathers body then went all out to cover his tracks; I'd call that leading a double life.

Amazing how one minute Mark claims to be upset by his fathers murder, then the next he's publishing details relating to his father that could have the potential of painting him in a poor light.

Even you are discrediting his father, on Marks behalf, as though he were the perpetrator?

Though I do not believe there is any malice in what you are doing Daisy.

The point is, Mark has convinced you with all his claims, so you may feel you need to defend him.




.


We don’t know that Mark murdered his father.  Also Mark defends his father all the time. Posters on this forum asked for more information on the case and I have provided it.  I am not personally discrediting Mark’s father, I am merely providing factual information. Mark was on the child protection register and I have provided the report from Social Services. Surely that proves he wasn’t a suitable father? Mark attended around ten primary schools as his father kept moving him to evade Social Services. Everything I have provided is from police or Social Services and is not my personal opinion as I never knew him.  One has to question what Sami had to hide.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 08:50:31 AM

We don’t know that Mark murdered his father.  Also Mark defends his father all the time. Posters on this forum asked for more information on the case and I have provided it.  I am not personally discrediting Mark’s father, I am merely providing factual information. Mark was on the child protection register and I have provided the report from Social Services. Surely that proves he wasn’t a suitable father? Mark attended around ten primary schools as his father kept moving him to evade Social Services. Everything I have provided is from police or Social Services and is not my personal opinion as I never knew him.  One has to question what Sami had to hide.

Thanks for this Daisy. As I said before, I think you've done the right thing posting the case details here. And to reiterate what I said before; I do not think for one minute there is any malice behind what you are doing. I am not blaming you for defending Mark.

But it does appear he's manipulated you. Sorry but that's how it comes across.

The point I'm making is Mark is having you focus on his father and everyone else, in the process, attempting to keep the attention away from himself.

It's a distraction technique these types of individuals use.

What stands out is that Mark appears well versed at playing the victim.

Simon Hall was also on the child protection register, before he was born.

It sounds to me like Mark and his father may have had a twisted reciprocal relationship.

https://www.bidsketch.com/blog/everything-else/relationship-failure/

https://theconversation.com/alternative-facts-a-psychiatrists-guide-to-twisted-relationships-to-truth-72469
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:03:40 AM

We don’t know that Mark murdered his father.  Also Mark defends his father all the time. Posters on this forum asked for more information on the case and I have provided it.  I am not personally discrediting Mark’s father, I am merely providing factual information. Mark was on the child protection register and I have provided the report from Social Services. Surely that proves he wasn’t a suitable father? Mark attended around ten primary schools as his father kept moving him to evade Social Services. Everything I have provided is from police or Social Services and is not my personal opinion as I never knew him.  One has to question what Sami had to hide.

What does Mark have to hide?

Sami may not have been a suitable father but that didn't give his son the right to murder him. He had the choice of walking away.

If Mark had all this deep seated anger and resentment towards his father because of his awful upbringing, why didn't he seek help from the professionals?
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 09:17:58 AM
What does Mark have to hide?

Sami may not have been a suitable father but that didn't give his son the right to murder him. He had the choice of walking away.

If Mark had all this deep seated anger and resentment towards his father because of his awful upbringing, why didn't he seek help from the professionals?

Mark has nothing to hide.

Where have you got the idea that Mark has anger and resentment towards his father? This is totally untrue. He worshipped his father. I am in touch with one of Mark’s relations and he is frustrated that Mark idolised his father. He has NEVER said a bad word against him.  He has seen professionals in prison who can’t believe that Mark still holds his father in such high esteem after all he has done to him.  He doesn’t acknowledge he had an awful upbringing, just an unconventional one.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:40:06 AM
Mark has nothing to hide.

Where have you got the idea that Mark has anger and resentment towards his father? This is totally untrue. He worshipped his father. I am in touch with one of Mark’s relations and he is frustrated that Mark idolised his father. He has NEVER said a bad word against him.  He has seen professionals in prison who can’t believe that Mark still holds his father in such high esteem after all he has done to him.  He doesn’t acknowledge he had an awful upbringing, just an unconventional one.

That's the impression he has portrayed to you and a handful of others but I do not believe for one minute it's the truth, based on much of what you have posted on his behalf.

He doesn't acknowledge to you, and others, he had an awful upbringing because to do so would be acknowledging the truth.

And he cannot afford for you to see that side to him. He mustn't let his mask slip. But it slips in much of what he writes and the way in which he writes.

I suspect the relation you are in touch with is indeed frustrated with Mark because they think he idolised his father, but in reality it was and is just a show. A facade.

I feel sorry for the relation because they are clearly in denial of who Mark really is. Maybe the relation could do some research on psychopathy and/or on dysfunctional relationships?

https://www.emergingfrombroken.com/the-fog-of-dysfunctional-adult-to-child-relationships/

https://www.emergingfrombroken.com/how-abusers-and-perpetrators-get-away-with-it/

http://psychopathsandlove.com
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Daisy on April 27, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
That's the impression he has portrayed to you and a handful of others but I do not believe for one minute it's the truth, based on much of what you have posted on his behalf.

He doesn't acknowledge to you, and others, he had an awful upbringing because to do so would be acknowledging the truth.

And he cannot afford for you to see that side to him. He mustn't let his mask slip. But it slips in much of what he writes and the way in which he writes.

I suspect the relation you are in touch with is indeed frustrated with Mark because they think he idolised his father, but in reality it was and is just a show. A facade.

I feel sorry for the relation because they are clearly in denial of who Mark really is. Maybe the relation could do some research on psychopathy and/or on dysfunctional relationships?

https://www.emergingfrombroken.com/the-fog-of-dysfunctional-adult-to-child-relationships/

https://www.emergingfrombroken.com/how-abusers-and-perpetrators-get-away-with-it/

http://psychopathsandlove.com

I have to disagree. Mark thought the world of his father and attended to his personal needs which most of us couldn’t do. How many of you could change a stoma bag especially when it leaks during the night?  Please don’t compare Mark to Jeremy as he is a totally different character. Mark is quietly spoken, deeply religious and a gentle soul.  Nursing staff and doctors commented on how devoted Mark was to his father. Sami used to swear at Mark during the many times he was in hospital and staff chastised him as Mark never argued back.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on April 27, 2018, 09:08:02 PM
I have to disagree. Mark thought the world of his father and attended to his personal needs which most of us couldn’t do. How many of you could change a stoma bag especially when it leaks during the night?  Please don’t compare Mark to Jeremy as he is a totally different character. Mark is quietly spoken, deeply religious and a gentle soul.  Nursing staff and doctors commented on how devoted Mark was to his father. Sami used to swear at Mark during the many times he was in hospital and staff chastised him as Mark never argued back.

What I have witnessed from your numerous posts Daisy is that you are emotionally involved and Mark is playing on your emotions in order to keep you on side and to fight his corner.

It doesn't matter how Mark may have appeared to nursing staff or how quietly spoken, deeply religious or how gentle his soul may appear. These individuals are chameleons and they have a tendency to mimic their targets; it's all part of their manipulation.

You stare: "Sami used to swear at Mark during the many times he was in hospital and staff chastised him as Mark never argued back."

I'm sure he didn't but that doesn't mean he wasn't raging underneath and waiting for the right moment, when he and his father were alone, to act on his deep seated hatred towards him.

I know you don't want to hear what I have to say because you have invested time and energy into Mark but I have read every word you've written and i do not buy into Marks tales and I am not alone.

He's playing on your emotions, in the process he's manipulated you and he is exploiting your kindness.



Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Angelo222 on January 03, 2019, 06:14:58 PM

We don’t know that Mark murdered his father. Also Mark defends his father all the time. Posters on this forum asked for more information on the case and I have provided it.  I am not personally discrediting Mark’s father, I am merely providing factual information. Mark was on the child protection register and I have provided the report from Social Services. Surely that proves he wasn’t a suitable father? Mark attended around ten primary schools as his father kept moving him to evade Social Services. Everything I have provided is from police or Social Services and is not my personal opinion as I never knew him.  One has to question what Sami had to hide.

A trial decided he did and I agree.  All we have heard since are excuses and not evidence of innocence.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: mrswah on January 04, 2019, 05:22:23 PM
A trial decided he did and I agree.  All we have heard since are excuses and not evidence of innocence.


I don't agree, Angelo. There are lots of questions, and we don't know whether or not Mark murdered his father.
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 07, 2019, 03:05:13 PM

I don't agree, Angelo. There are lots of questions, and we don't know whether or not Mark murdered his father.


What sort of questions? Perhaps Daisy could ask Mark.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote" What I have witnessed from your numerous posts Daisy is that you are emotionally involved and Mark is playing on your emotions in order to keep you on side and to fight his corner."

 I agree.

quote "It doesn't matter how Mark may have appeared to nursing staff or how quietly spoken, deeply religious or how gentle his soul may appear. These individuals are chameleons and they have a tendency to mimic their targets; it's all part of their manipulation"

Many of Dr Shipmans patients still cannot believe he did what he did becauase he was "such a nice man" with nice manners...
Title: Re: Why was a man who was mobile receiving a full care package?
Post by: Nicholas on February 18, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
The police can just refuse to release information or DNA for analysis as they did very publicly in the Kevin Nunn case. They gave no reason. Police work has nothing to do with finding out the truth which is sad.

Noel O'Gara
@noelogara
Nov 17, 2019
@tomconti66
 I saw your interview on sky about Kevin Nunn. I can help. I know what happened.

Tom conti
@tomconti66
Replying to
@noelogara
Thank you for that. I never look at Twitter!  I understand that you’re in contact with his solicitor so there’s nothing I can add. Again, many thanks.
8:36 AM · Nov 20, 2019·Twitter Web App

Noel O'Gara
@noelogara
Nov 21, 2019
Replying to
@tomconti66
I put up that Sky article on my facebook page and ran into a lot of flak from Dawn's sister and her online support. https://facebook.com/suffolkstrangler/posts/2493869674222952?comment_id=2495557007387552&reply_comment_id=2496137147329538&notif_id=1574187393632996&notif_t=feed_comment
https://mobile.twitter.com/tomconti66/status/1197071173164646400

https://m.facebook.com/comment/replies/?ctoken=2493869674222952_2493937207549532&count=23&curr&pc=1&ft_ent_identifier=2493869674222952&gfid=AQD58gVLJwh71vDK&notif_t=feed_comment