Poll

Peer Reviewed Research suggests that Scent Dogs of all types have a maximunm combined accuracy of about 90%

I Understand and Accept this
18 (34.6%)
I believe Scent Dogs are more accurate than this
12 (23.1%)
I am not sure
4 (7.7%)
I don't believe Scent Dogs generally are that accurate
18 (34.6%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: February 25, 2014, 04:23:56 AM

Author Topic: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy  (Read 61916 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2013, 04:49:13 PM »
What about all the times the dogs failed to detect anything when there was in fact something to find?  Are these episodes classified as fools errands or are they conveniently overlooked?   Let's face it a spaniel's hooter and what it can achieve is not an accurate science and more akin to a circus act.

Those who promote this ability or whatever it is called do so in order to embelish their own credibility and line their pockets.  How many of these dogs are winging their way to Bangladesh to do their bit?

It is not an accurate *science* but neither is it a clown act, if it were, law enforcement throughout the world would not waste time energy and money on a *clown act*

PS I also wondered why these dogs were not sent to Bangladesh......answers on a postcard and it isnt because dogs are clown acts

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2013, 04:52:12 PM »
What about all the times the dogs failed to detect anything when there was in fact something to find?  Are these episodes classified as fools errands or are they conveniently overlooked?   Let's face it a spaniel's hooter and what it can achieve is not an accurate science and more akin to a circus act.

Those who promote this ability or whatever it is called do so in order to embelish their own credibility and line their pockets.  How many of these dogs are winging their way to Bangladesh to do their bit?

Totally agree but when arguing with fanatical dog supporters it is necessary to proceed one step at a time.

But you have  missed alot of steps on the way DB
 8(0(*

I am not a fanatical dog worshipper, btw, you  just have not convinced me with your that there is nothing to see here so lets all move along argument

AND you HAVE convinced me of quite a few things recently, and made me rethink, but here, no, so, assuming your skills are equal in all areas, there must be something lacking in this particular debate
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 04:54:41 PM by Redblossom »

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2013, 04:55:58 PM »
What about all the times the dogs failed to detect anything when there was in fact something to find?  Are these episodes classified as fools errands or are they conveniently overlooked?   Let's face it a spaniel's hooter and what it can achieve is not an accurate science and more akin to a circus act.

Those who promote this ability or whatever it is called do so in order to embelish their own credibility and line their pockets.  How many of these dogs are winging their way to Bangladesh to do their bit?

Totally agree but when arguing with fanatical dog supporters it is necessary to proceed one step at a time.

But you have  missed alot of steps on the way DB
 8(0(*

I am not a fanatical dog worshipper, btw, you  just have not convinced me with your that there is nothing to see here so lets all move along argument

AND you HAVE convinced me of quite a few things recently, and made me rethink, but here, no, so, assuming your skills are equal in all areas, there must be something lacking in this particular debate

The only point that I am making is that dog alerts are fallible.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2013, 04:58:31 PM »
Eddie was tested constantly by Grimes using a jar filled with some old decayed relic with its own distinctive odour so what's to say this is what Eddie tried to find every time he went out to play?  What are the chances that this same odour is left behind by a fresh corpse?

Nobody is saying it is a clown act redblossom.  It is a game to these dogs which us humans have tried to harness to our own advantage.  Sometimes it works but more than often they find nothing.  My point is that when they find nothing how do we know that is a false positive rather than a true negative ?? 8)-)))

Ps DB is correct, dogs are not infallible.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2013, 05:27:18 PM »


The only point that I am making is that dog alerts are fallible.

No one disputes that. The problem here is, as I see it, is that the dogs have alerted in an extraordinarily high ratio to places connected to the Mccanns vis a vis other places

And I do not accept Mr Grime was cueing them to do so.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2013, 05:33:01 PM »
Eddie was tested constantly by Grimes using a jar filled with some old decayed relic with its own distinctive odour so what's to say this is what Eddie tried to find every time he went out to play?  What are the chances that this same odour is left behind by a fresh corpse?

Nobody is saying it is a clown act redblossom.  It is a game to these dogs which us humans have tried to harness to our own advantage.  Sometimes it works but more than often they find nothing.  My point is that when they find nothing how do we know that is a false positive rather than a true negative ?? 8)-)))

Ps DB is correct, dogs are not infallible.

Angelo, how do you know Eddie was teated *constantly* with this method and no other? The odour is no different from an old or new body.Mr Grime says the dog picks it up shortly after death to skeletised condition.

The only way you can assess the difference between false positives and true negatives is when a case is solved as I understand it. That indeed, a missing person had died and the  dog picked up the scent in the last place they were seen where a body had been but removed.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2013, 05:55:47 PM »
Where is the option ;

I believe some dogs may be more accurate than this ?

You cannot provide statistics and then apply them uniformly to every  dog  ...  stats are a general indication, nothing more

It's like quoting a statistic that surgeons make serious errors one time in ten ...  therefore no surgeon is able to maintain a 100% success rate   

This poll should not be pinned as it is flawed in it's premise     

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2013, 06:00:22 PM »
Where is the option ;

I believe some dogs may be more accurate than this ?

You cannot provide statistics and then apply them uniformly to every  dog  ...  stats are a general indication, nothing more

It's like quoting a statistic that surgeons make serious errors one time in ten ...  therefore no surgeon is able to maintain a 100% success rate   

This poll should not be pinned as it is flawed in it's premise   

No peer reviewed substantial stdy has ever shown a rate higher than 90%. Most are much lower.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2013, 06:13:54 PM »
Where is the option ;

I believe some dogs may be more accurate than this ?

You cannot provide statistics and then apply them uniformly to every  dog  ...  stats are a general indication, nothing more

It's like quoting a statistic that surgeons make serious errors one time in ten ...  therefore no surgeon is able to maintain a 100% success rate   

This poll should not be pinned as it is flawed in it's premise   

No peer reviewed substantial stdy has ever shown a rate higher than 90%. Most are much lower.

Your statistics are nothing more than a general indication  (  as all statistics are )

They do not support the suggestion that NO dog can be 100% accurate


debunker

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2013, 06:42:32 PM »
Where is the option ;

I believe some dogs may be more accurate than this ?

You cannot provide statistics and then apply them uniformly to every  dog  ...  stats are a general indication, nothing more

It's like quoting a statistic that surgeons make serious errors one time in ten ...  therefore no surgeon is able to maintain a 100% success rate   

This poll should not be pinned as it is flawed in it's premise   

No peer reviewed substantial stdy has ever shown a rate higher than 90%. Most are much lower.

Your statistics are nothing more than a general indication  (  as all statistics are )

They do not support the suggestion that NO dog can be 100% accurate

Some dogs might be 100% accurate some of the time. No singledog alert can ever be said with confidence to be accurate, given the evidence.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2013, 06:55:00 PM »
Where is the option ;

I believe some dogs may be more accurate than this ?

You cannot provide statistics and then apply them uniformly to every  dog  ...  stats are a general indication, nothing more

It's like quoting a statistic that surgeons make serious errors one time in ten ...  therefore no surgeon is able to maintain a 100% success rate   

This poll should not be pinned as it is flawed in it's premise   

No peer reviewed substantial stdy has ever shown a rate higher than 90%. Most are much lower.

Your statistics are nothing more than a general indication  (  as all statistics are )

They do not support the suggestion that NO dog can be 100% accurate

Some dogs might be 100% accurate some of the time. No singledog alert can ever be said with confidence to be accurate, given the evidence.

Statistics are not evidence  and cannot be presented as such

You may refer to statistics to support a claim that it is  unlikely   that a dog,  ( any )  dog,  will be 100% accurate

What you may not do  is present statistics as an indicator of certainty

That is what this poll does,  and in doing so,  it is flawed  ( and should not be pinned )

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2013, 06:58:07 PM »
There is no false statement in the poll.

You are only upset because it does not comply with your world view.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2013, 07:03:41 PM »
There is no false statement in the poll.

You are only upset because it does not comply with your world view.

I have given my opinion

Your poll is flawed because it presents statistics as an indicator of certainty

I have nothing more to add     

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2013, 07:10:13 PM »
There is no false statement in the poll.

You are only upset because it does not comply with your world view.

I have given my opinion

Your poll is flawed because it presents statistics as an indicator of certainty

I have nothing more to add   

Where does it do that?

Offline Angelo222

Re: Poll - Scent Dogs Accuracy
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2013, 07:12:15 PM »
The thing you have to remember to is that different dogs trained on cadaver residue will react to different odours. Some are trained on real corpses in America while British dogs might have been trained on others forms of dead cellular human material.  Point I am making is that one dog might react to something while another dog won't do so.  I would love to see this put to test some day and then we would know just how good or bad these canines are.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!