Poll

whats your thoughts on the missing madeleine case being reopened ?

very good
10 (90.9%)
good
1 (9.1%)
not good
0 (0%)
dont know
0 (0%)
dont care
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closed: October 26, 2013, 12:56:48 AM

Author Topic: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...  (Read 15186 times)

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Offline gilet

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2013, 02:08:25 AM »
Unfortunately everyone failed her badly.


Not everyone. But certainly others as well as the PJ.

But some have admitted their errors and have explained that they will have to live painfully with them for the rest of their lives. Has Amaral done the same? Or is he still trying to salvage his "honour" even after his dismissal from the case and his criminal convictions?

Offline gilet

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2013, 02:21:16 AM »
No, everyone failed her. Her parents, the tapas 7, the PJ and the UK police have all failed her. Other wise she wouldn't be missing or we would know what had happened to her.

Not everyone. There were probably many GNR, PJ, LP officers and others who did not, there were some who did.

Some of those who did have stated openly their regrets and have identified the pain they live with.

Others have not.

Amaral is, I believe in the latter category. His book was to salvage his own honour not to make up for his failings and those of his team.


Offline Aegean

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2013, 03:05:08 AM »
More pedantry?

The police as a group failed her. The PJ as a group failed her. The tapas 7 as a group failed her and the parents both failed her as a couple and as individuals. Is that better?

Madeleine was failed first by her parents, who left her and her younger siblings alone in a strange room in a strange place surrounded by strangers. Once those two people had failed her - the people who should have done everything in their power never to fail her - then it was very difficult for anyone else to come in and do something to fix the situation.

Offline Victoria

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2013, 09:44:05 AM »
I voted very good - the original investigation was flawed and Maddie and her family were let down as a result. A new investigation is the least the PJ can do.

Offline pinkblossoms

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2013, 10:55:15 AM »
I voted very good.

lizzibif.

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2013, 06:04:17 PM »
not just very good its execellent!!! I was confident that one day they would have to reopen the case ..back to beginning..has the deal been done ?

Aiofe

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2013, 05:37:45 PM »
It is about time that the case has been reopened.  It's a pity however that it was shelved in the first place because of a lack of cooperation by certain members of the tapas-9.  After 6 years I fear they are simply chasing shadows and ghosts!

That does not follow logically. There was no necessity for the case to be shelved- it was a political decision. The reconstruction was possible using something like HOLMES; the PJ was not interested and tried to force people to return even though it did not have the power to do so.

I think it was disgraceful that a major missing person/homicide case was 'shelved'. It would never happen in the UK where such cases are never shelved but continue with a small team or an individual maintaining the case should anything new occur.

The logical cause is that the Portuguese closed it because they wanted to- they could easily have continued an investigation without a reconstruction. They chose not to.

Offline j.rob

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2013, 10:35:47 AM »
The fact is that the initial police investigation did not find any evidence for the abduction  by a stranger who broke into the apartment while Maddie slept theory.

The investigation found some evidence that there had been a dead body in the apartment. And they considered that the abduction theory had been made up to cover up an accident. One can logically see why, if there had been an accident in the apartment, or if a parent had lost their temper and committed a violent act on the spur of the moment, they would want to cover that up. There is logic in that theory, even if you do not accept it. And there is some evidence to support the theory that Maddie died in the apartment as the sniffer dogs found evidence. You can argue that it is flawed, but it is less flawed than the McCann theory which rests on two sightings of a man carrying a child that evening. That is simply not evidence. It could have been anyone. Jane Tanner's sighting has been ruled out (and the Portugese police had no confidence in it at all). What about the other sighting?

Whether or not you believed the initial police investigation was flawed, that was the conclusion they came to, based on what they saw PLUS the behaviour of the parents and the conflicting accounts of that fateful evening from their friends. The Portugese police thought it was strange that the parents did not join in the search. If the McCann's truly believed a stranger had broken in to the apartment and stolen Maddie then why did Kate leave the twins alone while she raised the alarm?

The portugese police didn't find evidence of a break in. They didn't find any DNA from a stranger or any sign of a stranger entering the apartment and carrying away Maddie. If the parents so strongly believed that the children had been drugged by a stranger, then why did they not insist on toxicology tests on the twins? That would have been very concrete evidence for their theory - if the twins had been drugged by a stranger then that would have provided much more sound evidence for the abduction theory - it would imply that the stranger had drugged Maddie, too, in order to facilitate an abduction.

So, if they believed in their own theory, why did they allow the crime scene to be contaminated? Why did they not insist on toxicolgy tests? Why did they not wake the twins up, to check they were okay, to check that they had not been molested by the paedophile abductor that they insisted had stolen Maddie?

Surely the safety and well being of their two other children would be paramount as well?

Of course, it does not explain one of the dozens if not hundreds of inconsistencies in the McCann's story - such

The only 'evidence' is the sightings of a man carrying a sleeping child. But that is circumstantial - you would expect to find adults carrying sleeping children in the resort - picking them  up from the creche, for instance, or perhaps from a friend's apartment where they were being babysat.

Why did the McCann's not enlist the help of experts in cases of missing children? Why did they go against advice that getting intensive media coverage and putting up photos in the critical period just after Maddie went missing might be counter-productive? Surely if they really believed that Maddie had been abducted by a wicked paedophile, there would be a huge risk that so much media coverage would cause the abductor to panic and cause even more harm to Maddie?

The Portugese police were given a pretty rough ride by the media in the UK. But the fact is that their investigation reached a conclusion that did not support the theory that had been advanced by Maddie's parents. And the Portugese police were there - they saw how the parents behaved. They did not find the abduction theory credible. And neither do I.

Offline j.rob

Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2013, 10:51:00 AM »
Did not  Amaral have experience in dealing with a case whereby the parents pretended that the child had been abducted? I believe he managed to secure a conviction despite considerable opposition from the parent/s and their defence team (as you would expect).

IF the parents or their friends/aquaintances had some knowledge of what had really happened to Maddie, I would imagine they would not want someone with that kind of experience leading the investigation.

The parents theory rests heavily on the assumption that it is unthinkable (I think they have used words like 'ridiculous' and 'absurd' and 'absolutely no evidence') that they or their friends/acquaintances would have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance.

But they, as doctors, know that if a young child is harmed or disappears, that is initially a child protection issue. When babies or toddlers are found with unexplained injuries or unexplained accidents or drug over-doses, then the parents or caretakers and those who were last with the child have to be ruled out as having caused the harm. Child protection is a huge issue in the UK - it gets massive media coverage and when a case is missed by social workers/ a GP etc then those professionals get a lot of flak.

No-one wants to believe that parents can cause harm to their children. No-one wants to believe that doctors can cause harm. No-one wants to believe that white, middle class privileged professional people can do bad things. It goes against what we want to believe in.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2013, 09:33:15 PM »
Did not  Amaral have experience in dealing with a case whereby the parents pretended that the child had been abducted? I believe he managed to secure a conviction despite considerable opposition from the parent/s and their defence team (as you would expect).

IF the parents or their friends/aquaintances had some knowledge of what had really happened to Maddie, I would imagine they would not want someone with that kind of experience leading the investigation.

They could have discovered this through Metodo3 that took some initiatives to discredit Gonšalo Amaral.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Poll - Re-opening of missing Madeleine case...
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2013, 09:33:58 PM »

No-one wants to believe that parents can cause harm to their children. No-one wants to believe that doctors can cause harm. No-one wants to believe that white, middle class privileged professional people can do bad things. It goes against what we want to believe in.
Absolutely.