Author Topic: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.  (Read 5753 times)

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Offline ferryman

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #240 on: January 26, 2017, 09:17:14 AM »
Grime has made this claim and it appears he has no evidence to support it

By definition.

Then again, all the evidence is AGAINST the "enhanced" victim recovery dog.
Why is Victoria Derbybshire persona non grata on this board?

Online davel

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #241 on: January 26, 2017, 09:37:17 AM »
It is not unusual for someone trying to promote their business to make exaggerated claims
as experienced investigators...based on the evidence...we believe Madeleine McCann was removed from the apartment by a stranger....DCI Redwood...Scotland Yard

Neither the McCanns nor their friend are persons of interest or suspects

If civil questions are being asked can we have the courtesy to provide civil answers.

Offline Brietta

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #242 on: February 03, 2017, 01:36:20 AM »
DNA expert in McCann case offer
 Wednesday, 12 September 2007

The inventor of DNA fingerprinting has offered to act as an expert witness in the Madeleine McCann case.
Sir Alec Jeffreys said DNA matches alone did not establish guilt and all Madeleine's genetic characters would be found in at least one family member.


Gerry and Kate McCann, suspects in their daughter's disappearance, are considering commissioning independent tests on a Portuguese hire car.

But the Madeleine's Fund board will not allow money to go on legal expenses.

It has been reported that DNA evidence with a 100% match to Madeleine was found in the car, but this has been played down by Portuguese police.

In an exclusive interview with the BBC's Newsnight programme, Sir Alec said there could be a potential problem in assigning a profile to Madeleine given that all other members of her family would have been in the car.

"DNA testing seeks to establish whether DNA sample A from a crime scene, came or did not come from individual B," he said.

"So if you get a match there's very strong evidence that it did come from B.

"It is then up to investigators, the courts and all the rest of it to work out whether that connection is relevant or not.

"DNA doesn't have the words innocence or guilt in it - that is a legal concept. What it seeks to establish is connections and identifications."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6992372.stm

The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Robittybob1

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #243 on: February 03, 2017, 04:33:15 PM »
significant "In an exclusive interview with the BBC's Newsnight programme, Sir Alec said there could be a potential problem in assigning a profile to Madeleine given that all other members of her family would have been in the car."  To make matters worse only 15 out of the 19 markers were found.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Brietta

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #244 on: February 03, 2017, 05:56:31 PM »
significant "In an exclusive interview with the BBC's Newsnight programme, Sir Alec said there could be a potential problem in assigning a profile to Madeleine given that all other members of her family would have been in the car."  To make matters worse only 15 out of the 19 markers were found.

Of significance also is the fact that such an eminent scientist was prepared to testify on the behalf of Madeleine's parents of his own volition.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Slartibartfast

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #245 on: February 03, 2017, 06:04:09 PM »
Of significance also is the fact that such an eminent scientist was prepared to testify on the behalf of Madeleine's parents of his own volition.

Where was he going to testify?

Helping Elite sufferers of NPD for over 2 years...

Offline Brietta

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #246 on: February 03, 2017, 06:06:30 PM »
Where was he going to testify?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really require an answer to that?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Slartibartfast

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #247 on: February 03, 2017, 07:42:39 PM »
Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really require an answer to that?

You said it?
Helping Elite sufferers of NPD for over 2 years...

Online Robittybob1

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #248 on: February 03, 2017, 11:32:49 PM »
Of significance also is the fact that such an eminent scientist was prepared to testify on the behalf of Madeleine's parents of his own volition.
If there ever was going to be a trial. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 05:08:45 PM by Robittybob1 »
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Online Robittybob1

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #249 on: April 20, 2017, 09:51:54 AM »
Is this true?

"In the first report, 15 alleles* out of 19 that made up Madeleine’s DNA appeared, he said.

Then, in a second report, all the alleles had “disappeared completely”."
  https://www.algarvedailynews.com/cases/madeleine-mccann/8605-amaral-s-libel-win-opens-pandora-s-box-on-national-television
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline ferryman

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #250 on: April 20, 2017, 10:14:51 AM »
Is this true?

"In the first report, 15 alleles* out of 19 that made up Madeleine’s DNA appeared, he said.

Then, in a second report, all the alleles had “disappeared completely”."
  https://www.algarvedailynews.com/cases/madeleine-mccann/8605-amaral-s-libel-win-opens-pandora-s-box-on-national-television

No, it isn't.

What Amaral erroneously refers to as the 'preliminary report' is this: an email from John Lowe to Stuart Prior explaining one result from the report:


Quote
Stuart

Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting

.....

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

Why - ...

Well lets look at the question that is being asked

"Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab "

It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.

Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.

The same applies to any result that is quoted as being too complex for meaningful inclusion/interpretation

What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -

When was the DNA deposited - 
How was the DNA deposited - 
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from - 
Was a crime committed -

These, along with all other results, will be formalised in a final report

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance

kind regards
John

John Lowe Forensic Scientist
Major Incidents Team
Priory House
Inter Facility: 703 6973
External: 0121 607 6973
Fax: 0121 6221807


Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

Forensic Science Service Ltd
Registered office and headquarters: Trident Court 2920 Solihull
Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, Birmingham B37 7YN United Kingdom.
Registered in England and Wales: number 5607780

The Forensic Science Service (r) is a trading name of Forensic Science

In a mix containing DNA from between 3 and 5 contributors (John Lowe couldn't determine the exact number) 19 components of 37 in total matched components from the DNA of Madeleine. 

Bearing in mind that, among the 3 to 5 contributors is likely to have been Madeleine's twin siblings and her parents, all with a high number of alike markers and very similar profiles to Madeleine, John Lowe found the report inconclusive, meaning that the dna result -- alone -- shed no light on the question of whether Madeleine was transported somewhere dead in the car or whether she wasn't: state of knowledge after the forensic analysis the same as before.
Why is Victoria Derbybshire persona non grata on this board?

Online stephen25000

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #251 on: April 20, 2017, 10:36:51 AM »
No, it isn't.

What Amaral erroneously refers to as the 'preliminary report' is this: an email from John Lowe to Stuart Prior explaining one result from the report:


In a mix containing DNA from between 3 and 5 contributors (John Lowe couldn't determine the exact number) 19 components of 37 in total matched components from the DNA of Madeleine. 

Bearing in mind that, among the 3 to 5 contributors is likely to have been Madeleine's twin siblings and her parents, all with a high number of alike markers and very similar profiles to Madeleine, John Lowe found the report inconclusive, meaning that the dna result -- alone -- shed no light on the question of whether Madeleine was transported somewhere dead in the car or whether she wasn't: state of knowledge after the forensic analysis the same as before.

Did the report negate it ?
The McCanns were solely responsible for their childcare arrangements and there is no one else to blame.

S and S, two more amateurs making money from a disappeared child, and clearly without a clue.

Online Robittybob1

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #252 on: April 20, 2017, 10:39:33 AM »
Did the report negate it ?
What report?
What are you doing to find Madeleine?