Author Topic: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.  (Read 5705 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2017, 01:29:02 PM »
I've had a couple of days traveling so my head is in no state to be tackling the DNA issue just yet.  I appreciate your help, I'm not ignoring it.

What was confirmed was that the pillowcase from Rothley had DNA on it consistent with a natural child of the McCanns. The DNA also matched a sample provided by Leicester Police in October 2007. There is also this;

With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann. (swab 3A)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

So the DNA from the pillowcase, from the LP sample and on swab 3A all matched. Swab 3A was taken from the floor of 5A behind the sofa.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
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Offline Alice Purjorick

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Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2017, 01:46:47 PM »
I don't think it requires a PhD to understand the forensic DNA results in this case, though. What hasn't helped, IMO, is the fact that various people (including bloggers, some media outlets, certain "researchers" and a certain PJ coordinator of "we policemen, experts" fame) have disseminated their muddled understanding for reasons best known to themselves.

Maybe not, I wasn't actually suggesting that it did. My thrust is that Googling is a recipe for disaster without at least a basic knowledge of what one is looking up otherwise one is likely to fall into this trap:
"I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
The basic knowledge is better acquired from an authoritative book or preferably short training courses with a competency test at the end. That's how most companies outside the "PdL  McCann Bubble" operate.
Which is not far removed from what you appear to be saying  ?{)(**
Apart from that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the play?

Offline Carana

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2017, 04:24:44 PM »
I've had a couple of days traveling so my head is in no state to be tackling the DNA issue just yet.  I appreciate your help, I'm not ignoring it.

No problem.

Offline Carana

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2017, 04:27:54 PM »
What was confirmed was that the pillowcase from Rothley had DNA on it consistent with a natural child of the McCanns. The DNA also matched a sample provided by Leicester Police in October 2007. There is also this;

With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann. (swab 3A)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

So the DNA from the pillowcase, from the LP sample and on swab 3A all matched. Swab 3A was taken from the floor of 5A behind the sofa.

G-Unit.... Hmmm. I doubt that you meant it, but I find the reference to the 3A swab a bit misleading as there were only a few coinciding alleles on that one (which could have belonged to you, me or... anyone).

Offline davel

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2017, 04:38:25 PM »
What was confirmed was that the pillowcase from Rothley had DNA on it consistent with a natural child of the McCanns. The DNA also matched a sample provided by Leicester Police in October 2007. There is also this;

With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann. (swab 3A)
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

So the DNA from the pillowcase, from the LP sample and on swab 3A all matched. Swab 3A was taken from the floor of 5A behind the sofa.

A good example of how the DNA results have been misunderstood  and misrepresented
as experienced investigators...based on the evidence...we believe Madeleine McCann was removed from the apartment by a stranger....DCI Redwood...Scotland Yard

Neither the McCanns nor their friend are persons of interest or suspects

If civil questions are being asked can we have the courtesy to provide civil answers.

Offline Carana

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2017, 05:05:29 PM »
Maybe not, I wasn't actually suggesting that it did. My thrust is that Googling is a recipe for disaster without at least a basic knowledge of what one is looking up otherwise one is likely to fall into this trap:
"I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
The basic knowledge is better acquired from an authoritative book or preferably short training courses with a competency test at the end. That's how most companies outside the "PdL  McCann Bubble" operate.
Which is not far removed from what you appear to be saying  ?{)(**

The DNA forensic results are simply not complicated.

There are online quizzes designed for junior high-school students (my old links no longer seem to work, but there are no doubt many others).

If anyone prefers an explanation from someone from the sceptic community, google nottextusa + DNA.


Offline jassi

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2017, 05:14:08 PM »
The DNA forensic results are simply not complicated.

There are online quizzes designed for junior high-school students (my old links no longer seem to work, but there are no doubt many others).

If anyone prefers an explanation from someone from the sceptic community, google nottextusa + DNA.

Actually the DNA results were very complicated, which is why they were unable to make any meaningful interpretation from them.
To all you Amaral campers out there, Hi De Hi

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -  Almost 10 years and still no solution.

Offline davel

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2017, 05:18:30 PM »
Actually the DNA results were very complicated, which is why they were unable to make any meaningful interpretation from them.

What meaningful result was hoped for
Finding Maddies DNA in the apartment or hire car would not have proven anything
as experienced investigators...based on the evidence...we believe Madeleine McCann was removed from the apartment by a stranger....DCI Redwood...Scotland Yard

Neither the McCanns nor their friend are persons of interest or suspects

If civil questions are being asked can we have the courtesy to provide civil answers.

Offline Alice Purjorick

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Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2017, 05:19:10 PM »
The DNA forensic results are simply not complicated.

There are online quizzes designed for junior high-school students (my old links no longer seem to work, but there are no doubt many others).

If anyone prefers an explanation from someone from the sceptic community, google nottextusa + DNA.

The FSS did not seem to share that view.
Apart from that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the play?

Offline jassi

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2017, 05:22:34 PM »
What meaningful result was hoped for
Finding Maddies DNA in the apartment or hire car would not have proven anything

That was never stated, I believe.
No conclusion was reached because the results were said to be too complex to interpret.
To all you Amaral campers out there, Hi De Hi

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -  Almost 10 years and still no solution.

Offline davel

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2017, 05:24:12 PM »
The FSS did not seem to share that view.

I'm sure the FSS didn't find them complicated but explaining them in layman terms to the PJ was very complicated
And it seems impossible
as experienced investigators...based on the evidence...we believe Madeleine McCann was removed from the apartment by a stranger....DCI Redwood...Scotland Yard

Neither the McCanns nor their friend are persons of interest or suspects

If civil questions are being asked can we have the courtesy to provide civil answers.

Offline G-Unit

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2017, 05:30:16 PM »
G-Unit.... Hmmm. I doubt that you meant it, but I find the reference to the 3A swab a bit misleading as there were only a few coinciding alleles on that one (which could have belonged to you, me or... anyone).

Do you have a cite please?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Alice Purjorick

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Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2017, 05:46:23 PM »
I'm sure the FSS didn't find them complicated but explaining them in layman terms to the PJ was very complicated
And it seems impossible

Is that just your opinion or do you have a cite to confirm that was the official position of the FSS ?
Apart from that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the play?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2017, 05:52:36 PM »
Is that just your opinion or do you have a cite to confirm that was the official position of the FSS ?
To know the official position of the FSS to the disclosures would be interesting.  Diplomacy seems to have a big part to play.   
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Carana

Re: MADELEINE'S DNA - definitive study.
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2017, 06:00:24 PM »
Do you have a cite please?

Any help?


An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

I've no idea whether Amaral even got this bit correct, but for what it's worth, there were apparently only 5 alleles in the flat sample - which, if true, means absolutely nothing. Zilch. Nada.

Five alleles could be compatible with yours, mine or those of virtually anyone else, or even a mixture.


GA: There is a recent report and there are two other reports. The first one mentions 15 alleles and here is the main question, it places the focus, they place the focus on that part of the exam from the vehicle, in the second [report] they then focus on the apartment, if on one side 15 alleles were not enough, in the other there were only 5 alleles that matched Madeleine McCann's genetic profile, what could be read there was that there were almost no problems. Because it's easily justifiable. It may not be justifiable with the cadaver odour on the spot where the blood sample was collected, but therefore, inside the house it is easy to justify, it's more difficult with a car that was rented more than twenty days later. So this is where the major confusion lies.

(Source:
"The little girl died in that apartment" - Gonšalo Amaral on TVI, broadcast live on 28 July 2008
Thanks to 'astro' for transcription and translation
Thanks to Joana Morais for collage

This is the transcript of an interview with Gonšalo Amaral, Paulo Reis and Duarte Levy, by J˙lia Pinheiro, on 'As Tardes da J˙lia', TVI, broadcast live on the 28th of July 2008.)