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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 12:11:39 PM

Title: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 12:11:39 PM
What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?  2007 digital cameras would be the norm. 

So just how long would it take to snap those few photos?  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm

Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 06, 2018, 01:34:15 PM
One would have to say, what relevance does it have?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Brietta on October 06, 2018, 05:56:50 PM
Just for the record ... it is my opinion that Robitty makes a valuable contribution to the forum when some of his persistence is rewarded by allowing things to be looked at slightly differently.

Whatever ... he is never offensive and always interesting ... and if members do not want to progress his threads there is no compulsion to contribute to them.

Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 07:44:56 PM
One would have to say, what relevance does it have?
Can we tell if the job is done with skill or not?  To me the shots look slightly out of focus.   Relatively poor quality for  a good digital image. 
I'm trying to work out whether Kate was right that the PJ didn't stay long.  I would think the few shots we see could be snapped in well under 10 minutes. 

I wasn't looking for a long thread but just an answer to the question, does anyone know what type of camera Barreiras used?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 06, 2018, 07:54:04 PM
Can we tell if the job is done with skill or not?  To me the shots look slightly out of focus.   Relatively poor quality for  a good digital image. 
I'm trying to work out whether Kate was right that the PJ didn't stay long.  I would think the few shots we see could be snapped in well under 10 minutes.

Early reports said the PJ left at 4am.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 08:00:51 PM
What I did notice there was no use of a flash when taking the outside photos which would be a feature of a digital camera which is capable of taking pictures in low light.

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_12.jpg)

Since they were aware that Kate had reported the window and the shutters had been interfered with I would have hoped for more close up work on the window and shutter from the outside.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 06, 2018, 08:02:54 PM
Can we tell if the job is done with skill or not?  To me the shots look slightly out of focus.   Relatively poor quality for  a good digital image. 
I'm trying to work out whether Kate was right that the PJ didn't stay long.  I would think the few shots we see could be snapped in well under 10 minutes. 

I wasn't looking for a long thread but just an answer to the question, does anyone know what type of camera Barreiras used?

Rob the photographs were taken with a camera ( I have no idea what sort) then printed out onto the PJ reports. The poor quality of the images could be caused by a low quality printer. These documents were then scanned  onto discs for the files again the quality of the scanner will play a part.

So IMO we can't make any judgement about the photographs and their quality.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
Rob the photographs were taken with a camera ( I have no idea what sort) then printed out onto the PJ reports. The poor quality of the images could be caused by a low quality printer. These documents were then scanned  onto discs for the files again the quality of the scanner will play a part.

So IMO we can't make any judgement about the photographs and their quality.
OK you might be right the quality is reduced by the scanning of physical paper documents.  I'm getting spoilt now by having images on computers.  I recall a photo taken by a friend with a high quality digital camera and I was able to zoom in to the point where I was able to see the hairs inside the subjects nostrils.

The photo of the main bedroom with the blotchy wall worries me.  (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_22.jpg)
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: G-Unit on October 06, 2018, 08:26:58 PM
What I did notice there was no use of a flash when taking the outside photos which would be a feature of a digital camera which is capable of taking pictures in low light.

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_12.jpg)

Since they were aware that Kate had reported the window and the shutters had been interfered with
I would have hoped for more close up work on the window and shutter from the outside.

What makes you think Kate reported any such thing? I get the impression you write down what you think might have happened rather than what actually happened.

Kate said nothing to the PJ according to Martins. Gerry told them the window, shutters and curtains were open when she went to the apartment at 22.00. He didn't say anything about the outside of them.

Barreiras found Kate's prints on the window (inside);

The witness carried out finger print testing on the inside of the bedroom window, where the girl had been sleeping, leaving other examinations for the following day given that on that occasion these tests could not be carried out in the best technical conditions. For this reason, the apartments and the surrounding area were sealed off, watched over by the GNR officers who remained on site.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 08:43:31 PM
G-unit why reply to the photo image, and then complain about something that is not in the post you quoted? 





Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: slartibartfast on October 06, 2018, 08:55:16 PM
G-unit why reply to the photo image, and then complain about something that is not in the post you quoted?

Probably to point out Kate had touched the window which you said she claimed had been interfered with.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 09:05:48 PM
Probably to point out Kate had touched the window which you said she claimed had been interfered with.

"At the same place, at about 22.00 Kate discovered the facts and the consequent disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, at this moment the window being wide open as well as the curtains and the shutter."
Gerry is definitely reporting what Kate said to Gerry.

The PJ knew that was what was being claimed so where are the close up shots of the window and the shutters?  Maybe he didn't know how to do real close up shots. 
At work they gave us cameras for taking evidence photos but there was no actual training in how to use them.  When you needed to use them you had to learn on the spot.  I recall sometimes the lens cover hadn't been removed, or your finger was partly over the lens.  It was real skill to take a zoomed in shot.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 06, 2018, 09:09:26 PM
"At the same place, at about 22.00 Kate discovered the facts and the consequent disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, at this moment the window being wide open as well as the curtains and the shutter."
Gerry is definitely reporting what Kate said to Gerry.

The PJ knew that was what was being claimed so where are the close up shots of the window and the shutters?  Maybe he didn't know how to do real close up shots. 
At work they gave us cameras for taking evidence photos but there was no actual training in how to use them.  When you needed to use them you had to learn on the spot.  I recall sometimes the lens cover hadn't been removed, or your finger was partly over the lens.  It was real skill to take a zoomed in shot.

Or perhaps it was so dark that he didn't bother taking photographs knowing that a full forensic search was going ahead and the apartment was being locked with a GNR officer left outside.

Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: G-Unit on October 06, 2018, 09:11:54 PM
G-unit why reply to the photo image, and then complain about something that is not in the post you quoted?

I don't know where the rest of the above post went. How strange!

Quoting your version of events rather than the version recorded does nothing for your credibility in my opinion.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 09:23:19 PM
Or perhaps it was so dark that he didn't bother taking photographs knowing that a full forensic search was going ahead and the apartment was being locked with a GNR officer left outside.
Having been in these situations myself, you think I should have played around with the digital camera myself and got to know it like the back of my hand, but for some reason I didn't. 
I got better in the end but taking shots at night or in the bright sunlight could be difficult.

If they both thought "Oh well we'll leave till tomorrow", some important points could easily be missed.  One GNR officer could only observe one side of the building at any one time, so if you had been working in tricky situations, like I have, you might have some observation on this side but on the other side of the building there could be people moving things away.

Think of prison officers etc how much difficulty they have at controlling inmates.  Police officers at a scene of a crime also, there would be people shifting things to hide evidence all the time (opinion).  You need enough staff to control it.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
I don't know where the rest of the above post went. How strange!

Quoting your version of events rather than the version recorded does nothing for your credibility in my opinion.
But did I?  Or is it just your opinion I did?  I know I questioned whether those notes were his, and AFAIK a question is not making a statement of fact.

[The rest of my post was transferred to the thread discussing Vitor Martins. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10231.msg493655#msg493655]

Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 09:47:04 PM
Early reports said the PJ left at 4am.
Who actually confirms this? 
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 06, 2018, 09:54:57 PM
Or perhaps it was so dark that he didn't bother taking photographs knowing that a full forensic search was going ahead and the apartment was being locked with a GNR officer left outside.
I read that Barreiras says GNR officers, or was it a solitary officer?  Unless they remained on opposite sides of the building, the building is not being guarded properly IMO.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
"For this reason, the apartments and the surrounding area were sealed off, watched over by the GNR officers who remained on site."
Once the PJ left anything could have happened.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Brietta on October 07, 2018, 12:04:59 AM
I stumbled upon the information that on occasion professional photographers such as Luis Forra were employed by the PJ as for example the pyjama photograph.
The attendant misinformation making something out of nothing is instructive.

British missing girl photo information
Photographer   ~ LUIS FORRA
Medianumber   ~ 01005211
Date Created   ~ 05.05.2007
Region   ~ West Europe > Portugal > PORTIMAO
Category   ~ Crime, Law and Justice
Title   ~ PORTUGAL BRITISH MISSING GIRL
Headline   ~ British missing girl
Description   ~ epa01005211 Pyjama equal to the one Madeleine McCann, the three year old British child, who went missing last week in the Ocean Club village of Praia da Luz, is displayed by the police, Portimao, Portugal, 10 May 2007.
EPA/LUIS FORRA
Credit   ~ EPA
Source   ~ LUSA
Caption Writer   ~ JR/PC/MA PT/JS/TP/AR
Image Size   ~ 1440px x 2048px   ~ 12,2cm x 17,3cm (300dpi)
http://www.epa.eu/crime-law-and-justice-photos/police-photos/british-missing-girl-photos-01005211
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: G-Unit on October 07, 2018, 07:48:48 AM
I stumbled upon the information that on occasion professional photographers such as Luis Forra were employed by the PJ as for example the pyjama photograph.
The attendant misinformation making something out of nothing is instructive.

British missing girl photo information
Photographer   ~ LUIS FORRA
Medianumber   ~ 01005211
Date Created   ~ 05.05.2007
Region   ~ West Europe > Portugal > PORTIMAO
Category   ~ Crime, Law and Justice
Title   ~ PORTUGAL BRITISH MISSING GIRL
Headline   ~ British missing girl
Description   ~ epa01005211 Pyjama equal to the one Madeleine McCann, the three year old British child, who went missing last week in the Ocean Club village of Praia da Luz, is displayed by the police, Portimao, Portugal, 10 May 2007.
EPA/LUIS FORRA
Credit   ~ EPA
Source   ~ LUSA
Caption Writer   ~ JR/PC/MA PT/JS/TP/AR
Image Size   ~ 1440px x 2048px   ~ 12,2cm x 17,3cm (300dpi)
http://www.epa.eu/crime-law-and-justice-photos/police-photos/british-missing-girl-photos-01005211

That photograph opens another can of worms altogether. It appears to have been given to the police by 'the family' along with some photos of Lagos Marina. Whoever took it, it wasn't done at the request of the police.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BOATS_VISION.htm
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Brietta on October 07, 2018, 08:46:07 AM
That photograph opens another can of worms altogether. It appears to have been given to the police by 'the family' along with some photos of Lagos Marina. Whoever took it, it wasn't done at the request of the police.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BOATS_VISION.htm

Absolute balderdash.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 08:58:32 AM
Absolute balderdash.

Which part of G-Unit's post was "balderdash" Brietta?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Brietta on October 07, 2018, 09:11:37 AM
Which part of G-Unit's post was "balderdash" Brietta?
Yet another thread is in danger of being derailed with an off topic conspiracy theory ... please do not go there because I will be deleting starting in a few minutes.
If you or Gunit feel misinformation and debunked myth is worth discussion open a new thread about it ... this one is about the PJ photographs of the crime scene ... for which Luis Forra's photo of the PJs was entered in evidence and can be found as the last image in the link provided.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: G-Unit on October 07, 2018, 09:26:00 AM
Yet another thread is in danger of being derailed with an off topic conspiracy theory ... please do not go there because I will be deleting starting in a few minutes.
If you or Gunit feel misinformation and debunked myth is worth discussion open a new thread about it ... this one is about the PJ photographs of the crime scene ... for which Luis Forra's photo of the PJs was entered in evidence and can be found as the last image in the link provided.

It was suggested that the PJ used 'professional photographers' with the aforementioned photograph quoted as 'evidence' of that.


My link shows that the PJ didn't instigate the photograph, so it isn't 'evidence' as claimed.

If my post is deleted so should the post I was replying to in my opinion.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 09:27:34 AM
Yet another thread is in danger of being derailed with an off topic conspiracy theory ... please do not go there because I will be deleting starting in a few minutes.
If you or Gunit feel misinformation and debunked myth is worth discussion open a new thread about it ... this one is about the PJ photographs of the crime scene ... for which Luis Forra's photo of the PJs was entered in evidence and can be found as the last image in the link provided.

Brietta the Lagos Marina photographs allegedly taken by Kate McCann were entered in evidence also so IMO that proves nothing.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: sadie on October 07, 2018, 10:07:53 AM
What I did notice there was no use of a flash when taking the outside photos which would be a feature of a digital camera which is capable of taking pictures in low light.

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_12.jpg)

Since they were aware that Kate had reported the window and the shutters had been interfered with I would have hoped for more close up work on the window and shutter from the outside.
No flash, but some exterior additional light seems to have been used.
From having been there at that front door, I can tell you that it was very very dark in that recessed area by the front door..

THere was a weak lamp almost across the road which shone through the end gap in the trees, but it was not in line to cast its light on the front door recess.   That was in shadow.    The lamp was positioned further down Rua Francisco Gentil Matins, opposite the patio area at the back of the building.

The lighting on the building seems to come from a place where there is no permanent source.
I think that from its position,  the moon would have been unable to shine in that door recess too.


So, it seems that the PJ must have used additional lighting ....?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 10:09:39 AM
Brietta the Lagos Marina photographs allegedly taken by Kate McCann were entered in evidence also so IMO that proves nothing.
We have discussed those marina photos in the past and no one suggested they were taken by Kate.  Are you sure about that?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 10:16:52 AM
We have discussed those marina photos in the past and no one suggested they were taken by Kate.  Are you sure about that?

From the link

I spoke to Kate today and she has given me photographs of the boat. She has also given me photographs of a man who has been on the boat. This is not the man the woman had in her vision.

This matter is very important to her and she is very pleased that we are making enq's into the matter. Once the enq's have been completed can we please let her know the results.


The Daily Mail

Kate went to Lagos marina, a few miles along the coast from Praia da Luz where her daughter vanished on May 3, 2007, and photographed the boat and the man on board, a hand-written note in police files reveals.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/119393/Maddy-s-mother-photographed-boat-she-believes-snatched-girl

Of course whether Kate photographed it herself in a way is immaterial.  The point is the photographs were provided by the McCanns and put into evidence.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 10:23:36 AM
Yet another thread is in danger of being derailed with an off topic conspiracy theory ... please do not go there because I will be deleting starting in a few minutes.
If you or Gunit feel misinformation and debunked myth is worth discussion open a new thread about it ... this one is about the PJ photographs of the crime scene ... for which Luis Forra's photo of the PJs was entered in evidence and can be found as the last image in the link provided.

Brietta wasn't it yourself that took the thread off topic?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: G-Unit on October 07, 2018, 10:27:34 AM
We have discussed those marina photos in the past and no one suggested they were taken by Kate.  Are you sure about that?

Kate may not have taken the photos, but she handed them to the British police officer;


I spoke to Kate today and she has given me photographs of the boat
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BOATS_VISION.htm
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 10:43:28 AM
No flash, but some exterior additional light seems to have been used.
From having been there at that front door, I can tell you that it was very very dark in that recessed area by the front door..

THere was a weak lamp almost across the road which shone through the end gap in the trees, but it was not in line to cast its light on the front door recess.   That was in shadow.    The lamp was positioned further down Rua Francisco Gentil Matins, opposite the patio area at the back of the building.

The lighting on the building seems to come from a place where there is no permanent source.
I think that from its position,  the moon would have been unable to shine in that door recess too.


So, it seems that the PJ must have used additional lighting ....?

Not necessarily Sadie.  It can be done by adjusting the settings on the camera eg shutter speed.  A tripod would be required though.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Mr Gray on October 07, 2018, 11:07:44 AM
It's possible to adjust the ISO on digital... That would make a, big difference
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 11:16:37 AM
It's possible to adjust the ISO on digital... That would make a, big difference

That is correct Davel.  No need for any external lighting IMO.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 11:56:17 AM
From the link

I spoke to Kate today and she has given me photographs of the boat. She has also given me photographs of a man who has been on the boat. This is not the man the woman had in her vision.

This matter is very important to her and she is very pleased that we are making enq's into the matter. Once the enq's have been completed can we please let her know the results.


The Daily Mail

Kate went to Lagos marina, a few miles along the coast from Praia da Luz where her daughter vanished on May 3, 2007, and photographed the boat and the man on board, a hand-written note in police files reveals.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/119393/Maddy-s-mother-photographed-boat-she-believes-snatched-girl

Of course whether Kate photographed it herself in a way is immaterial.  The point is the photographs were provided by the McCanns and put into evidence.
So true.  I must have not appreciated what that article had said.  Thanks.
Previous thread on the topic of going to Lagos Marina http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9175.msg447249#msg447249
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 11:57:46 AM
Kate may not have taken the photos, but she handed them to the British police officer;


I spoke to Kate today and she has given me photographs of the boat
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BOATS_VISION.htm
Does that constitute searching for Madeleine?   I'd tend to "yes".
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
No flash, but some exterior additional light seems to have been used.
From having been there at that front door, I can tell you that it was very very dark in that recessed area by the front door..

THere was a weak lamp almost across the road which shone through the end gap in the trees, but it was not in line to cast its light on the front door recess.   That was in shadow.    The lamp was positioned further down Rua Francisco Gentil Matins, opposite the patio area at the back of the building.

The lighting on the building seems to come from a place where there is no permanent source.
I think that from its position,  the moon would have been unable to shine in that door recess too.


So, it seems that the PJ must have used additional lighting ....?
I seem to remember that there was a full moon that night.  It was after midnight when they arrived .  Would the moonlight illuminate a wall on the northern side of a building.  In the southern hemisphere it would but in the northern hemisphere  it would be the opposite. 

Maybe it was a flash from the camera after all.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Sunny on October 07, 2018, 12:17:52 PM
I seem to remember that there was a full moon that night.  It was after midnight when they arrived .  Would the moonlight illuminate a wall on the northern side of a building.  In the southern hemisphere it would but in the northern hemisphere  it would be the opposite. 

Maybe it was a flash from the camera after all.

I don't believe so Rob.  There is no glare.

It was not a clear night either so no moon.

When questioned, he says that it was a fresh night with some breeze. It was not a clear night, nor was it very dark. Referring to the light conditions around the apartment, he says they were very dark, and thinks that even on a bright night there would always be little light around the apartment because of the trees and lack of street lights.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Montclair on October 07, 2018, 01:02:43 PM
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Mr Gray on October 07, 2018, 01:36:37 PM
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.
the video of Joao's confession was not admissable yet it was allowed . The PJ lied about the torture claiming Leonora fell down the stairs...torture was proven... The court accepted as aproven fact joannas blood was found in the fridge yet no dna test was carried out......why are you bringing up cipriano
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Brietta on October 07, 2018, 04:02:51 PM
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.

A quick internet search shows that digital cameras are used almost exclusively by law enforcement agencies worldwide with film being used less and less.
For example from NPIA dated 2007
PRACTICE ADVICE ON
POLICE USE OF
DIGITAL IMAGES
Snip
2.2.6 CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS
Digital crime scene photography at capture stage is similar to conventional film techniques except that additional metadata is captured with the image and in some cases the compressed image may be unsuitable for evidential purposes.

Crime scene photography includes any image taken at the scene, for example, capture of the scene itself using video, thereby allowing the viewer to see damage to property or non-intimate injuries to a victim.

Considerations at capture stage include:
• Ensuring equipment generates correct metadata;
• Using an appropriate file format to capture different scenes without compromising the image quality;
• Obtaining advice from specialist photography, where appropriate;
• Linking views and sequences of a crime scene.

See National Training Centre Initial Crime Scene Investigator’s Course for further information on capture in crime scene photography
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/acpo/police-use-of-digital-images-2007.pdf



I'm sure that the Portuguese police will have kept up with developments to assist in their work ... the following is from Brazil but there is nothing to suggest that the crime scene photographs in Madeleine's case were not taken with a digital camera,which is highly probable in my opinion.

Snip
Forensic photography has evolved, using digital cameras, sophisticated printers, special papers, as well as all the technology that modern computing provides.

It is true that a short time ago there was a certain fear of using digital photos as a means of producing expert proof, due to the quality of the photos and also the authenticity of the photos, as it was feared that the photos could be altered , we now know that this is also possible in photos taken by the analogue system, but this resistance has already been overcome by the credibility and quality of the images obtained by digital means.

Knowing that the authenticity of the photos should always be preserved, many experts are keen to keep the original record of the photos obtained inside the camera or the memory card, because in this way the photos are untouchable and preserved against possible tampering.

By opting for the use of digital cameras, experts have gained in image quality, time to get the shot, (because it is no longer necessary to send the films to be revealed), and with the storage facilities provided by digital media.

In order to perform a good forensic photography the Expert must first be concerned about the type of camera that will use because the choice of the appropriate equipment will be fundamental to the success of obtaining proof.

http://www.ambito-juridico.com.br/site/index.php?n_link=revista_artigos_leitura&artigo_id=4000


Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: sadie on October 07, 2018, 05:47:57 PM
I seem to remember that there was a full moon that night.  It was after midnight when they arrived .  Would the moonlight illuminate a wall on the northern side of a building.  In the southern hemisphere it would but in the northern hemisphere  it would be the opposite. 

Maybe it was a flash from the camera after all.

Now, I always thought that the moon in the northern hemispere rose in the east and travelled west via the south.  If I am correct then the moon would not have illuminated the door recess.  If you are right, Rob, then it might well have done *IF^ it had risen above the heads of the trees in Rua Agostinho da Silva by that time.

I think that had it been a flash, there would likely have  been harsh shadows.

ETA:  IIRC it was one night off a full moon on the 3rd.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: sadie on October 07, 2018, 05:57:58 PM
I don't believe so Rob.  There is no glare.

It was not a clear night either so no moon.

When questioned, he says that it was a fresh night with some breeze. It was not a clear night, nor was it very dark. Referring to the light conditions around the apartment, he says they were very dark, and thinks that even on a bright night there would always be little light around the apartment because of the trees and lack of street lights.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
Glad to see a member of the PJ confirming my posts on just how dark it truly was.  I must have missed that before.  Thankyou Joao and thank you Sunny for highlighting it.
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
AFAIK digital cameras are not used in police work because the photographs can be easily manipulated. You can see that even in the CSI series.

In the Leonor Cipriano trial normally the photo taken of her with her injuries would not have been accepted as evidence because it was taken with a digital cameral, why it was accepted is another mystery.
So they did use digital cameras in one case you know about.  The fact that you can immediately review whether a picture has been taken is beyond useful.  Gone are the days of over exposure or double take.   Can pics be manipulated at the camera memory card level?

One thing that is really lacking in the PJ files is dates  and times and original notes.  In my profession we were instructed to have unbroken chain of evidence, none of this forgetting what time it was, time to the minute was part of the record, initials of the person taking the notes, and the notes kept even after the notes were transferred to computer.  OK it was hard to do 100% correctly but that was the ultimate.

The cameras we used were Cannon mirror less, a cheap digital with small memory card, so you  were limited to how many photos one could take.

My son is now into photogrammetry and doing amazing things so I'm getting excited with the idea of capturing a crime scene in virtual reality where one could re-enter the crime scene at any time in the future.  But who would take the photos?

"photogrammetry

noun
the use of photography in surveying and mapping to ascertain measurements between objects."

https://store.steampowered.com/app/861400/Nefertari_Journey_to_Eternity/

http://www.realityvirtual.co/

I could imagine crime in the future being solved with the crime scene being down loaded onto the internet and thousands of eyes and minds examining the scene for details  that just a single inspector would miss.

"Virtual reality for crime scene visualization"  it looks like it is being done well at least thought about.

"Abstract
The Swedish National Forensic Centre has been monitoring the development of 3D sensing technology for 10 years and has recently started using 3D laser scanning for measuring Swedish crime scenes. Once a crime scene is documented in 3D it is also possible to visualize it in 3D, which opens the possibility to use Virtual Reality (VR). VR have clear advantages over other visualization methods since it enables a person to virtually visit the scene of the crime in a natural manner, i.e. by means of physically walking around in the scene. One key aspect of VR is that it enables the user to understand the dimensions of the scene in a natural way. The demands for VR of the Swedish Police have been investigated and summed up to five key design guidelines. We also give an insight in which steps of the crime fighting process that will benefit most from VR. Real time streaming 360 cameras can also be used as a data source enabling a person to visit a scene without physically traveling there. We believe that this technology can deliver immersive VR experiences that can be very useful within our field."
Don't ask me how it is done but I know the cameras are really expensive.








Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 07:35:15 PM
Now, I always thought that the moon in the northern hemispere rose in the east and travelled west via the south.  If I am correct then the moon would not have illuminated the door recess.  If you are right, Rob, then it might well have done *IF^ it had risen above the heads of the trees in Rua Agostinho da Silva by that time.

I think that had it been a flash, there would likely have  been harsh shadows.

ETA:  IIRC it was one night off a full moon on the 3rd.
I don't take many photos myself but once or twice I used a flash outside and it seemed pitiful.  It takes a lot of light to light up an outside scene. 
Why I became convinced a flash was used on the outside photos was that there are two walls lit up more than two others.  (I'm not sure how to describe it but I'll try.)

See the wall with the bucket and one square and the wall with the 3 squares, these are lit up more than the two walls to the left and right of those two.   That could only happen from a close-by source of light for the two darker walls are at 90 degrees to each other.  So the illumination is not the moon or a distant street light IMO but I'm open to correction.

(http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_12.jpg)

Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 07, 2018, 08:44:00 PM
snip.

Considerations at capture stage include:
• Ensuring equipment generates correct metadata;
• Using an appropriate file format to capture different scenes without compromising the image quality;
• Obtaining advice from specialist photography, where appropriate;
• Linking views and sequences of a crime scene.

snip

Some of this is vital but easily missed without the right training and preparation.  If you are sent to a crime scene and your camera battery is flat, the date and time has not been loaded into the camera,
Knowing whether there is the need for a specialist.  (you can't really wait for a specialist to turn up but how are you going to get real experts in photography and in future photogrammetry?

• Linking views and sequences of a crime scene  (is that keeping a record of what is done)?
Title: Re: What type of camera was Joao Barreiras using?
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 08, 2018, 11:54:40 AM
It's possible to adjust the ISO on digital... That would make a, big difference

I know what you mean but what you said is not what you meant.......one hopes.  It's a novel concept if you really meant what you said.