Jeremy Bamber - Review of Whole Life Tarriff ECHR Appeal Decision

[John]

Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

The European Court of Human Rights has ruled the whole life tariffs given to murderer Jeremy Bamber and two other killers breached their human
rights.



_{The appeal was brought by three killers - Jeremy Bamber (L),
Douglas Vinter (C) and Peter Moore.}

The court ruled there had to be both a possibility of release and review to be compatible with their human rights.

However it said this did not mean there was "any prospect of imminent release".

Bamber, along with Peter Moore and Douglas Vinter, argued their sentences were "inhuman" and they should have the right to a review.

The three men had lost a previous legal battle at the European court and now its grand chamber has had a final say.

BBC legal affairs correspondent Clive Coleman said the grand chamber's decision was convincing, in that they ruled by 16-1.

He said the move was significant both legally and politically, and it would now have to be considered by the UK government.

BBC home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani said it would probably require Parliament to create a system to allow the Parole Board to review whole life orders.

Read more...

[tonyb]

got to be good news for the "he's guilty" side. no hope of parole unless he confesses. he's in a catch 22.

[goatboy]

A counter argument of course is that you forfeit your rights to be treated humanely when you choose to take another person's life. I don't think many people have a problem with life imprisonment meaning life.

Though it is interesting that the media seems to imply it is a victory for Bamber when as Tony says, in reality if the ECHR's decision is heeded by the UK government (and there is no guarantee it will be) you will need to prove you have been rehabilitated by showing remorse and that your character has changed. Bamber would have to admit his killings first. The fact is Bamber would much rather stay in prison than get out on a technicality or parole because he wants money and he would only have the chance to get this if his conviction is overturned.

[Rachel Granada]

At risk of being unpopular, I have to say that I agree with this decision.  In my opinion it is inhuman to deprive anyone of hope.
But it doesn't mean that Jeremy Bamber is likely to be released shortly.

And as far as The European Court is concerned, and their right to rule on British Law, I cannot in all conscience accept their right to grant me The Winter Fuel Allowance of which I have been deprived for thirteen years, and then question their right to rule on humanity.
The Winter Fuel Allowance is a measly £200 a year, but very important to me, as no doubt Hope is to Jeremy Bamber, and others.

Hi Eleanor, I agree with you that hope is very important.  However, I disagree that Bamber should ever have any hope of getting out. Not only did he cold-bloodedly execute his family, he also tried to blame it on poor Sheila, who had been very poorly with a psychiatric illness.  He tried to use Sheila's illness to sully her memory. He also tried to sell semi-nude pictures of Sheila after her death.

 I also believe that if he is ever released he could be a danger to remaining family members.

He is a dangerous monster in my opinion. 

[Eleanor]

A counter argument of course is that you forfeit your rights to be treated humanely when you choose to take another person's life. I don't think many people have a problem with life imprisonment meaning life.

Though it is interesting that the media seems to imply it is a victory for Bamber when as Tony says, in reality if the ECHR's decision is heeded by the UK government (and there is no guarantee it will be) you will need to prove you have been rehabilitated by showing remorse and that your character has changed. Bamber would have to admit his killings first. The fact is Bamber would much rather stay in prison than get out on a technicality or parole because he wants money and he would only have the chance to get this if his conviction is overturned.

So you see, this ruling is not that dire.  He can go on hoping for the rest of his life as far as I am concerned.  It isn't just about him.

[Outlook]

A counter argument of course is that you forfeit your rights to be treated humanely when you choose to take another person's life. I don't think many people have a problem with life imprisonment meaning life.

Though it is interesting that the media seems to imply it is a victory for Bamber when as Tony says, in reality if the ECHR's decision is heeded by the UK government (and there is no guarantee it will be) you will need to prove you have been rehabilitated by showing remorse and that your character has changed. Bamber would have to admit his killings first. The fact is Bamber would much rather stay in prison than get out on a technicality or parole because he wants money and he would only have the chance to get this if his conviction is overturned.

Agreed, I do not see the judgment as a victory for murderers or a defeat for the UK Government.  I see it as entirely an issue of an occasional review to see if prison "has worked" and the Prisoner, no matter what their crimes, has made some progress.  If not leave them there.  The European Court takes a wider perspective than just a few murderers in denial but also looks at the wider issue of people imprisoned for "political" crimes or "psychiatric" crimes.  A few years ago it was a crime to be "Gay" and certainly political prisoners were held in some countries for several decades without any form of appeal.  They are looking at the principle rather than any single case.

[Outlook]

A counter argument of course is that you forfeit your rights to be treated humanely when you choose to take another person's life. I don't think many people have a problem with life imprisonment meaning life.

Though it is interesting that the media seems to imply it is a victory for Bamber when as Tony says, in reality if the ECHR's decision is heeded by the UK government (and there is no guarantee it will be) you will need to prove you have been rehabilitated by showing remorse and that your character has changed. Bamber would have to admit his killings first. The fact is Bamber would much rather stay in prison than get out on a technicality or parole because he wants money and he would only have the chance to get this if his conviction is overturned.

Except that he would never get compensation on a technicality.  To be compensated you have to demonstrate that you were "fitted up" like Stephan Kizko and several famous "Irish cases" rather than there was a typo on your charge sheet.

[Outlook]

Hi Eleanor, I agree with you that hope is very important.  However, I disagree that Bamber should ever have any hope of getting out. Not only did he cold-bloodedly execute his family, he also tried to blame it on poor Sheila, who had been very poorly with a psychiatric illness.  He tried to use Sheila's illness to sully her memory. He also tried to sell semi-nude pictures of Sheila after her death.

 I also believe that if he is ever released he could be a danger to remaining family members.

He is a dangerous monster in my opinion.

I usually do not say this but I agree with every word you say Rachel.  Not only this but Bambers few supporters have continued to attack the remaining family and repeatedly published horrific pictures of Sheila and denigrate her in every way possible over the last 27 years.

[jackiepreece]

It's good news for me as I have never been CONVINCED of Jeremy's guilt.  It there is a chance of him getting out of prison I don't believe he will ever give up fighting to prove his innocence.
We might all get closer to knowing what really happened that night.  Time will tell.  If I was convinced of Jeremy's guilt I still believe he should have a full life tarrif

[Rachel Granada]

I usually do not say this but I agree with every word you say Rachel.  Not only this but Bambers few supporters have continued to attack the remaining family and repeatedly published horrific pictures of Sheila and denigrate her in every way possible over the last 27 years.

Thanks Outlook.  I honestly believe that Bamber, if released, would go after Julie Mugford and the Boutflours/Eatons.

The attempts to sully Sheila's memory are particularly disgusting.

[Outlook]

Thanks Outlook.  I honestly believe that Bamber, if released, would go after Julie Mugford and the Boutflours/Eatons.

The attempts to sully Sheila's memory are particularly disgusting.

Well there is no chance of release because he denies his crimes and so does not qualify for the Parole process and even if he did get considered for release by some torturous process the family have a say in what happens and the Parole Board have to be satisfied that there is no risk of re-offending.  They do not have a good record on this in the past but in the case of Bamber there is ample evidence of his few deranged supporters threatening the family and denigrating the memory of his victims and on Youtube you can find videos of his most insane supporter driving up and down the lanes surrounding the farmhouse and boasting of peeping through their windows.

So no hope at all for Bamber.  The only way he will be coming out is in a box.

[Myster]

It's good news for me as I have never been CONVINCED of Jeremy's guilt.  It there is a chance of him getting out of prison I don't believe he will ever give up fighting to prove his innocence.
We might all get closer to knowing what really happened that night.  Time will tell.  If I was convinced of Jeremy's guilt I still believe he should have a full life tarrif

We don't need to get any closer to what happened that night, because most sane people here know that Bamber killed his family... period, full stop, end of story.

And going on present form it's unlikely he'll get out... Bamber will continue driving up the same old cul-de-sac, blaming his sister as he has done for nearly 30 years, especially as his "team" have "millions" of documents to wade through, which will take another 30, thank goodness !!!

Some murderers are so cruel, dangerous and self-seeking they don't deserve any hope of ever being free!

[Outlook]

We don't need to get any closer to what happened that night, because most sane people here know that Bamber killed his family... period, full stop, end of story.

And going on present form it's unlikely he'll get out... Bamber will continue driving up the same old cul-de-sac, blaming his sister as he has done for nearly 30 years, especially as his "team" have "millions" of documents to wade through, which will take another 30, thank goodness !!!

Some murderers are so cruel, dangerous and self-seeking they don't deserve any hope of ever being free!

Agreed.  It must take a very special kind of courage to empty a magazine of bullets into the heads of sleeping children and to shoot your elderly mother in the head while she is helpless on the floor.  It must also take a very special kind of mental illness to support him also.

He will not be getting out ever.  His few supporters nailed his coffin shut years ago.

[Redblossom]

has any other person in history still denied  their guilt 28 yrs later? Have no idea if hes guilty or innocent, as i never followed the case, before my time, but had a look on a website of his which said there were 4 million pages and lots of evidence he was fitted up


Eta

As to the OP, i think the echr is right, unless you hang people or decide eye for an eye, and thats it,  then there has to be some hope for people banged up for life, ie the possibility of parole if they fulfill all the requirements, obviously it will depend on their crimes and the circumstances and their state of mind at all times......there are some crimes though  that are unforgiveable


the sensationalist papers reported it wrong, the courts can imprison people for life, just that they cant say there is never the possibility of asking for a parole review, and even if they get that, doesnt  mean they will be released

[Outlook]

has any other person in history still denied  their guilt 28 yrs later? Have no idea if hes guilty or innocent, as i never followed the case, before my time, but had a look on a website of his which said there were 4 million pages and lots of evidence he was fitted up

There are better people than me to advise but I see it is a fairly simple and obvious case and unfortunately the people who support him are not the nicest in the World.

He has had lots of appeals and a CRCC and every time they have found the appeals without foundation.  No new evidence has emerged over the years that supports him and the few people who have supported him have indulged in threats and trolling and personal attacks on peoples families even against their children.

Among the claims you will find is that he was fitted up by MI5, Special Branch, Essex Police and the media because he is of "Royal Birth" and of course they could not just get rid of him they had to slaughter an entire family and several policeman on the way.  It makes the Diana Conspiracy or 9/11 look sane.

If you want to follow it be prepared to lose your mind and if you come down on the "guilty side" make sure you have strong locks on your doors.