The Ocean Club organised missing child procedures - who, where, when, what?

[G-Unit]

I think it would have taken Amy ten minutes to get to 5A, search it, and alert Lindsay. It took Lindsay five minutes to get to the Tapas. We then have to allow five minutes for Emma to go and get the description of Madeleine clothing. That means it took twenty minutes to be at a point to begin searches. Assuming that the five 'team leaders' for each search zone had arrived, gathered their teams, and were poised to begin, we can allow another five minutes for them all to move off to their designated zones.

John Hill says he was phoned by Lindsay at 22.28. He arrived at 22.35 by which time 100 people were searching and calling the child's name.

That means that Amy must have left the night creche for 5A at 22.10; twenty five minutes before John saw all those people searching.

In my opinion she phoned Lindsay after the woman arrived at 22.05, and Lindsay told her to check it out. No missing child procedure is triggered by a rumour, it had to be confirmed. Amy rang back and confirmed the disappearance following or during her visit to 5A. That was between 22.15 and 22.22 in my opinion. Lindsay then rang Emma.

After searching 5A Amy went to the Tapas complex and probably helped with organising the paperwork for the search teams. At 22.35 John Hill arrived there. I think he and Gerry went to the main reception together to phone the police, although both had mobile phones and the Tapas was nearer. Perhaps it was thought it was more appropriate to use an 'official' phone.

22.41 was the time of the first call to the GNR. From Amy's point of view that was 20 minutes after she officially raised the alarm by notifying Lindsay.

[ShiningInLuz]

I think it would have taken Amy ten minutes to get to 5A, search it, and alert Lindsay. It took Lindsay five minutes to get to the Tapas. We then have to allow five minutes for Emma to go and get the description of Madeleine clothing. That means it took twenty minutes to be at a point to begin searches. Assuming that the five 'team leaders' for each search zone had arrived, gathered their teams, and were poised to begin, we can allow another five minutes for them all to move off to their designated zones.

John Hill says he was phoned by Lindsay at 22.28. He arrived at 22.35 by which time 100 people were searching and calling the child's name.

That means that Amy must have left the night creche for 5A at 22.10; twenty five minutes before John saw all those people searching.

In my opinion she phoned Lindsay after the woman arrived at 22.05, and Lindsay told her to check it out. No missing child procedure is triggered by a rumour, it had to be confirmed. Amy rang back and confirmed the disappearance following or during her visit to 5A. That was between 22.15 and 22.22 in my opinion. Lindsay then rang Emma.

After searching 5A Amy went to the Tapas complex and probably helped with organising the paperwork for the search teams. At 22.35 John Hill arrived there. I think he and Gerry went to the main reception together to phone the police, although both had mobile phones and the Tapas was nearer. Perhaps it was thought it was more appropriate to use an 'official' phone.

22.41 was the time of the first call to the GNR. From Amy's point of view that was 20 minutes after she officially raised the alarm by notifying Lindsay.

From memory, as John Hill did not speak Portuguese, he instructed the OC receptionist to phone the GNR.

I don't know John Hill's location at that time.

Based on the subsequent reaction of the GNR, I am inclined to think the 10.41 phone call referred only to a missing child, not to an abducted one.

[G-Unit]

From memory, as John Hill did not speak Portuguese, he instructed the OC receptionist to phone the GNR.

I don't know John Hill's location at that time.

Based on the subsequent reaction of the GNR, I am inclined to think the 10.41 phone call referred only to a missing child, not to an abducted one.

That sounds feasible. Perhaps he phoned from the Tapas initially (22.41 call), then went to see the McCanns and went to reception with Gerry (second call).

[ShiningInLuz]

That sounds feasible. Perhaps he phoned from the Tapas initially (22.41 call), then went to see the McCanns and went to reception with Gerry (second call).

Receptionist Helder Luis says he made more than one call to the GNR, before phoning his boss, Vitor dos Santos.  Dos Santos claims more than one call was made by Helder Luis.

Based on this, I would put John Hill and Gerry at OC reception some time after the second call.

I keep meaning to look up Gerry's phone records to see if they help narrow the timing.

In the mean time, was there still an ongoing search within Luz for Madeleine?

[Robittybob1]

That sounds feasible. Perhaps he phoned from the Tapas initially (22.41 call), then went to see the McCanns and went to reception with Gerry (second call).

We know it was a call from OC to the GNR at those two times.  I would call it "speculation" when guessing what each phone call was about. 

I must admit I thought the first phone call was to cancel a GNR call out made earlier and the second call was the actual request for the McCann case.  As you can see with speculation you could get many different reasons for the two calls.

[Robittybob1]

I think it would have taken Amy ten minutes to get to 5A, search it, and alert Lindsay. It took Lindsay five minutes to get to the Tapas. We then have to allow five minutes for Emma to go and get the description of Madeleine clothing. That means it took twenty minutes to be at a point to begin searches. Assuming that the five 'team leaders' for each search zone had arrived, gathered their teams, and were poised to begin, we can allow another five minutes for them all to move off to their designated zones.

John Hill says he was phoned by Lindsay at 22.28. He arrived at 22.35 by which time 100 people were searching and calling the child's name.

That means that Amy must have left the night creche for 5A at 22.10; twenty five minutes before John saw all those people searching.

In my opinion she phoned Lindsay after the woman arrived at 22.05, and Lindsay told her to check it out. No missing child procedure is triggered by a rumour, it had to be confirmed. Amy rang back and confirmed the disappearance following or during her visit to 5A. That was between 22.15 and 22.22 in my opinion. Lindsay then rang Emma.

After searching 5A Amy went to the Tapas complex and probably helped with organising the paperwork for the search teams. At 22.35 John Hill arrived there. I think he and Gerry went to the main reception together to phone the police, although both had mobile phones and the Tapas was nearer. Perhaps it was thought it was more appropriate to use an 'official' phone.

22.41 was the time of the first call to the GNR. From Amy's point of view that was 20 minutes after she officially raised the alarm by notifying Lindsay.

You said "I think it would have taken Amy ten minutes to get to 5A, search it, and alert Lindsay"

I think that is pretty good, and considering the call to Lyndsay would have to precede the call to Emma (10:17)
One could imagine on that basis the call to Lyndsay could have been 10:15 (i.e. 2 minutes before calling Emma).

10:15  minus 10 minutes and you get 10:05 the time the lady mentions the man.

So as long as Amy hurries around to the McCann's apartment and leave the creche immediately it would be possible to present her self at the McCann's apartment around 10:10 and the spend the next 5 minutes checking the apartment and going off to ring Lyndsay by 10:15.


You wrote: "After searching 5A Amy went to the Tapas complex and probably helped with organising the paperwork for the search teams. At 22.35 John Hill arrived there. I think he and Gerry went to the main reception together to phone the police, although both had mobile phones and the Tapas was nearer. Perhaps it was thought it was more appropriate to use an 'official' phone."
Now that is speculative but entirely possible.

"22.41 was the time of the first call to the GNR. From Amy's point of view that was 20 minutes after she officially raised the alarm by notifying Lindsay."

I might have calculated that as 26 minutes rather than 20.

[G-Unit]

We know it was a call from OC to the GNR at those two times.  I would call it "speculation" when guessing what each phone call was about. 

I must admit I thought the first phone call was to cancel a GNR call out made earlier and the second call was the actual request for the McCann case.  As you can see with speculation you could get many different reasons for the two calls.

With speculation you can imagine anything but there was no earlier call out from the OC reception and that's a fact.

[G-Unit]

Now we have the Manager of the OC putting his spanner in the works;

That at around 22h15 of 03 May 2007, he was alone in his residence, situated in Lagos, and was contacted by John Hill, Mark Warner manager who works in the Ocean Club establishment and who informed him that a child, a minor, of the feminine sex, who was staying with her family in that resort, had disappeared and that he was going to initiate the 'procedure for missing child' (sic);
. The deponent left toward the local where he arrived at 22H25 and there found John Hill and other functionaries, Silvia Batista, Joao Batista, the former who is employee manager and the latter maintenance;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBIN_CROSSLAND-1.htm

[pathfinder73]

John Hill first found out about the disappearance as follows:

This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007. About 5 minutes later the deponent presented himself at the resort.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

Gerry was talking to Pamela Fenn on his balcony at around 22:30 - that was before he first met with the manager John Hill.

[Robittybob1]

With speculation you can imagine anything but there was no earlier call out from the OC reception and that's a fact.

I'd say that was an opinion about a fact.

[jassi]

I'd say that was an opinion about a fact.

Have you evidence of this earlier call?

[G-Unit]

John Hill first found out about the disappearance as follows:

This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007. About 5 minutes later the deponent presented himself at the resort.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

Gerry was talking to Pamela Fenn on his balcony at around 22:30 - that was before he first met with the manager John Hill.

At 10.35 the police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would go back down to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out what was happening. John Hill, the Mark Warner resort manager, came up to the veranda behind our apartment. I remember screaming at him to do something. ‘Where are the police?’ I yelled at him.
[madeleine]

Matthew and Fiona make no mention of this second request. I think that's when John Hill sent Emma Knight to 5A after seeing how Kate was reacting. When she arrived only Fiona and Kate were there. A short while later Gerry and Russell came into 5A.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

[Robittybob1]

Now we have the Manager of the OC putting his spanner in the works;

That at around 22h15 of 03 May 2007, he was alone in his residence, situated in Lagos, and was contacted by John Hill, Mark Warner manager who works in the Ocean Club establishment and who informed him that a child, a minor, of the feminine sex, who was staying with her family in that resort, had disappeared and that he was going to initiate the 'procedure for missing child' (sic);
. The deponent left toward the local where he arrived at 22H25 and there found John Hill and other functionaries, Silvia Batista, Joao Batista, the former who is employee manager and the latter maintenance;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBIN_CROSSLAND-1.htm

G-unit are there any clues in that post from Robin Crossland that proves he was talking about MM?

"1.  was contacted by John Hill, Mark Warner manager who works in the Ocean Club establishment How could JH know about Madeleine missing that early as Amy and Lyndsay hadn't confirmed MM missing at that stage. Who rang JH?

 2. and who informed him that a child, a minor, of the feminine sex, JH is informing RC that the missing child is female.  just on 50% of minors are female.

3. who was staying with her family in that resort, had disappeared and that he was going to initiate the 'procedure for missing child' (sic); Once again nothing specific to point to the McCanns.  The times given clash with his sworn statement that he wasn't aware of the McCann situation until 10:28 PM so doesn't that suggest to you it was a different family being described here?

[G-Unit]

G-unit are there any clues in that post from Robin Crossland that proves he was talking about MM?

"1.  was contacted by John Hill, Mark Warner manager who works in the Ocean Club establishment How could JH know about Madeleine missing that early as Amy and Lyndsay hadn't confirmed MM missing at that stage. Who rang JH?

 2. and who informed him that a child, a minor, of the feminine sex, JH is informing RC that the missing child is female.  just on 50% of minors are female.

3. who was staying with her family in that resort, had disappeared and that he was going to initiate the 'procedure for missing child' (sic); Once again nothing specific to point to the McCanns.  The times given clash with his sworn statement that he wasn't aware of the McCann situation until 10:28 PM so doesn't that suggest to you it was a different family being described here?

Crossland's right hand woman was Silvia Batista, who worked for him and his partners for 21 years. She was informed by him at around 22.30. So John Hill rang Crossland and he rang Silvia. Crossland got the time wrong in my opinion.

[pathfinder73]

At 10.35 the police had still not arrived, so Gerry asked Matt if he would go back down to the twenty-four-hour reception and find out what was happening. John Hill, the Mark Warner resort manager, came up to the veranda behind our apartment. I remember screaming at him to do something. ‘Where are the police?’ I yelled at him.
[madeleine]

Matthew and Fiona make no mention of this second request. I think that's when John Hill sent Emma Knight to 5A after seeing how Kate was reacting. When she arrived only Fiona and Kate were there. A short while later Gerry and Russell came into 5A.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

They had begun the missing child procedure 10 minutes before informing manager John Hill. Emma went to apartment 5A straight away.

At about 22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing. I met Lyndsey and the Service Manager, Amy Tierney, near to the Tapas Bar and we initiated the 'Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child'.

I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm