Scottish history, nationhood and independence.

[Sunny]

English people get the government they vote for.
We don't.
It's really not as simple as resentment and finding the answer.to our problems.
It's a pity you cannot appreciate that many here would like to have their own government.
I'm off now to raise the Saltire at the foot of the garden, don the blue face paint,  in the style of Braveheart
and scream " Freedom"

Of course, it works both ways Erngath, we in England get Scottish MPs voting on purely English & Welsh matters. Personally I have never believed that they should be allowed to do this.

Personally I am very happy that we are one United Kingdom though.  Whether others are happy is up to them.

[Eleanor]

Indeed. Probably the best time for independance was in the 70's according to my gran. We had oil,gas,and a lot of industry...we were wealthy then, and could in the right hands, prosper like Norway, however labour controlled governements over the years followed by Conservatives made many economic mistakes not just for scotland but for all UK.

 The scottish people voted for labour governements, thinking they were voting for the 'working man' but when the working man had little or no work they had no voice. thanks to Labour governments they voted for!
 Lets tell it like it really is eh?

As investments in people declined in Scotland- those who had talent= scientists/inventors,innovators-doctors nurses etc fled because they saw what was coming.  WHat was expected was the saviour of the SNP, but ,alas they turned out to be just as useless as Labour and Conservatives with their stupid ideas and money wasting projects. The Parliament was designed and built by non scots- paid for by non scots the estimated cost flew right off the richter scale!

The people who cared enough voted to stay within the UK. Those who want independance will have to prove to me why I should want that by hard facts and figures. 

Sturgeon is stealing money from the just over the poverty line to give to the below poverty line.  Who is going to provide our wealth? Germany? the EU?

SNP= keep on taxing us our of a job darling.

What has the SNP done to rid us of the embarassment of housing 'refugees' to not providing homes for those who born and work here? homeless 'refugees' well ther are none!   what has the SNP done to ensure scottish people have an opportunity to work with Scottish Government agencies  - we need to fill places with Polish/Africans really no white scottish people have these skills if not why not?

Not very Nationalist is it ? Building super hospitals with little or no regular bus services- out in a wilderness-staff with no suitable qualifications oh the list is endless.

However the SNP cannot claim to be successful in anything onw their own- can they?

I would love to hear the argument that independance would be great for Scotland- just what are the English holding back from us exactly?

It would be VERY interesting to assertain how many 2nd 3rd generation Irish voters want independance?...

Are you Scottish?  Gosh, that would be a revelation.  And at least there is some heartfelt opinion in your comment for which I applaud, even if I don't agree with you.

Let's have a few more comments like this from you.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Of course, it works both ways Erngath, we in England get Scottish MPs voting on purely English & Welsh matters. Personally I have never believed that they should be allowed to do this.

Personally I am very happy that we are one United Kingdom though.  Whether others are happy is up to them.

Yes, Scottish and Irish MPs  have used their votes to block English matters.  Some people just spit their dummies out of the pram and expect attention tsk!

[Eleanor]

A very confused post.
I don't have the time or inclination to bother with it.

I do. 

There might be more to Mistaken than first we thought.  She just tries too hard to come across as not caring much at all, when quite possibly she does care.  Some people do this for fear of being  called upon to explain.  I used to do this in days of yore when I thought I wasn't articulate enough.

That is the best Comment I have ever seen from Mistaken.  We aren't all Wordsmiths.  Some of us do have a problem with putting across out opinion.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Are you Scottish?  Gosh, that would be a revelation.  And at least there is some heartfelt opinion in your comment for which I applaud, even if I don't agree with you.

Let's have a few more comments like this from you.

I am Scottish my Ancestry going back centuries. Which gives me a right to tell it like it is.

 All my opinions are heartfelt,  some people just do not read them that way, due to blinkered vision and over valued self worth. or point scoring.

As leader of my debating society at Universty, I articulate well enough- getting straight A's in over 70% of modules and first class Hons degree.  My first ever debate challenge was to win a tournament arguing why Hitler was good for Germany- well tough Job-  I won it outright. Not because I or others were Nazis-on the contrary- I just told it as it was.

Educated people learn how to question and research. Something this forum is bereft of. It lacks tolerance of independant thinking. censorship over freedom of speech is never a good idea.

[Eleanor]

I am Scottish my Ancestry going back centuries. Which gives me a right to tell it like it is.

 All my opinions are heartfelt,  some people just do not read them that way, due to blinkered vision and over valued self worth. or point scoring.

As leader of my debating society at Universty, I articulate well enough- getting straight A's in over 70% of modules and first class Hons degree.  My first ever debate challenge was to win a tournament arguing why Hitler was good for Germany- well tough Job-  I won it outright. Not because I or others were Nazis-on the contrary- I just told it as it was.

Educated people learn how to question and research. Something this forum is bereft of. It lacks tolerance of independant thinking. censorship over freedom of speech is never a good idea.

Thank you for that.  But your comments are often very difficult to decipher.  Although perhaps because you want them to be.

It doesn't matter all that much to me, but I wouldn't like to think that I have discarded your opinions because I had not paid enough attention.

Censorship over Freedom of Speech is not a bad thing.  No one should be allowed to say exactly as they think.  Although I have never found your comments to be particularly offensive.  Just often impossible to understand. 

Well, now I know better.  And I am pleased about that.

[G-Unit]

Yes, Scottish and Irish MPs  have used their votes to block English matters.  Some people just spit their dummies out of the pram and expect attention tsk!

Maybe the English should start campaigning for independance. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all cost us money. Would an independant Scotlannd be worse off financially? In my opinion they would.

[Venturi Swirl]

Independence.  IndependEnce. 
I am always somewhat amused be ardent Brexiteers who can’t understand Scotland’s desire to split from the Union. 

[Eleanor]

Independence.  IndependEnce. 
I am always somewhat amused be ardent Brexiteers who can’t understand Scotland’s desire to split from the Union.

You forgot the "Glorious" bit.

[G-Unit]

Independence.  IndependEnce. 
I am always somewhat amused be ardent Brexiteers who can’t understand Scotland’s desire to split from the Union.

As you are correcting my spelling I assume you are speaking to me. If so, please note I'm neither a leaver or remainer; I don't care either way. My interest is in democracy.

I was just pointing out that financially Scotland will be worse off if it leaves the UK. The UK, on the other hand, will be better off if it leaves the EU.

[Erngath]

As you are correcting my spelling I assume you are speaking to me. If so, please note I'm neither a leaver or remainer; I don't care either way. My interest is in democracy.

I was just pointing out that financially Scotland will be worse off if it leaves the UK. The UK, on the other hand, will be better off if it leaves the EU.

Can I ask why you can make such definitive predictions on both matters.

[Brietta]

Indeed. Probably the best time for independance was in the 70's according to my gran. We had oil,gas,and a lot of industry...we were wealthy then, and could in the right hands, prosper like Norway, however labour controlled governements over the years followed by Conservatives made many economic mistakes not just for scotland but for all UK.

 The scottish people voted for labour governements, thinking they were voting for the 'working man' but when the working man had little or no work they had no voice. thanks to Labour governments they voted for!
 Lets tell it like it really is eh?

As investments in people declined in Scotland- those who had talent= scientists/inventors,innovators-doctors nurses etc fled because they saw what was coming.  WHat was expected was the saviour of the SNP, but ,alas they turned out to be just as useless as Labour and Conservatives with their stupid ideas and money wasting projects. The Parliament was designed and built by non scots- paid for by non scots the estimated cost flew right off the richter scale!

The people who cared enough voted to stay within the UK. Those who want independance will have to prove to me why I should want that by hard facts and figures. 

Sturgeon is stealing money from the just over the poverty line to give to the below poverty line.  Who is going to provide our wealth? Germany? the EU?

SNP= keep on taxing us our of a job darling.

What has the SNP done to rid us of the embarassment of housing 'refugees' to not providing homes for those who born and work here? homeless 'refugees' well ther are none!   what has the SNP done to ensure scottish people have an opportunity to work with Scottish Government agencies  - we need to fill places with Polish/Africans really no white scottish people have these skills if not why not?

Not very Nationalist is it ? Building super hospitals with little or no regular bus services- out in a wilderness-staff with no suitable qualifications oh the list is endless.

However the SNP cannot claim to be successful in anything onw their own- can they?

I would love to hear the argument that independance would be great for Scotland- just what are the English holding back from us exactly?

It would be VERY interesting to assertain how many 2nd 3rd generation Irish voters want independance?...

The scourge of Scotland has been the evil of sectarianism ... this post as some others from this poster smacks of it yet again.

[Sunny]

Independence.  IndependEnce. 
I am always somewhat amused be ardent Brexiteers who can’t understand Scotland’s desire to split from the Union.

I was thinking earlier this afternoon of a similar thought. How many Scots voted for Independence yet voted remain in the Brexit pole.

[Venturi Swirl]

As you are correcting my spelling I assume you are speaking to me. If so, please note I'm neither a leaver or remainer; I don't care either way. My interest is in democracy.

I was just pointing out that financially Scotland will be worse off if it leaves the UK. The UK, on the other hand, will be better off if it leaves the EU.

Better off financially?  That’s not a given.

[G-Unit]

The scourge of Scotland has been the evil of sectarianism ... this post as some others from this poster smacks of it yet again.

I'm truly puzzled by the continued influence of sectarianism in Scotland and Nirthern Ireland. It existed in England when I was young but it just died out because, imo, so many of my generation lost interest in organised relgion.

In my case I thought that criticising Catholics as my mother did was against the principles of Christianity. How could anyone claim to be a Christian and not learn the lesson behind the story of the good Samaritan? I live by Christian principles but I don't need to believe in God or be a church member to do that.