UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on December 17, 2018, 10:13:09 AM
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Maddie McCann likely 'ALIVE and living in a lair' – investigator's shock claim
MISSING Madeleine McCann could still be alive and living in a lair without any idea who she is, according to an ex-policeman.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTn1LUSHdBms0kJZ6ru1IEry5RkmiBXSw9qiyON-453SN2d-5d2)
David Edgar maintains his belief Maddie – who went missing aged three in 2007 – is likely being held captive.
He previously claimed she may be in an "underground cellar or dungeon" after she disappeared in Portugal.
Edgar said: "She is most likely being held captive, possibly in an underground cellar or dungeon and could emerge at any time."
And Edgar – a retired Detective Inspector – spoke of his theory again on Monday, in response to the Home Office's pledge to give £150,000 to Scotland Yard in their search for Maddie.
He previously said: "She could literally be anywhere in the world but my hunch is that she is in Portugal.
"The chance that she may have been smuggled out of the country without being detected is highly unlikely.
"There is someone in Portugal with an open knowledge of where she is and what happened.
"Someone knows what happened and it’s time they came forward – maybe they already have."
Edgar said he believes a paedophile kidnap is the most likely scenario, with Maddie being kept against her will with a false identity.
Chillingly she wouldn't even be aware of her status as missing, he said, or that she is at the centre of a global hunt.
More... (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/743505/madeleine-mccann-alive-theory-police-lead-portugal-paedophile-kidnap)
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Balderdash IMO.
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There have been similar cases to that scenario so it can't be ruled out.
Personally I can't see any reason why a person couldn't be taken out of Portugal as there were no possible way of checking all the vehicles leaving.
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His opinion is based on a hunch. A hunch is no more than a feeling or a guess based on intuition. He has no evidence at all, so his opinion has no substance whatsoever.
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His opinion is based on a hunch. A hunch is no more than a feeling or a guess based on intuition. He has no evidence at all, so his opinion has no substance whatsoever.
It's wishful thinking pure and simple. There has never been anything revealed which could in any way suggest Maddie is alive and being held somewhere. The police believe her to be deceased and I concur.
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It's wishful thinking pure and simple. There has never been anything revealed which could in any way suggest Maddie is alive and being held somewhere. The police believe her to be deceased and I concur.
Maybe Edgar is preparing the ground for another private search when the government money runs out?
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Maybe Edgar is preparing the ground for another private search when the government money runs out?
Can a private search take place while there is an ongoing PJ investigation ?
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Can a private search take place while there is an ongoing PJ investigation ?
There were private searches in the first week.
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Maybe Edgar is preparing the ground for another private search when the government money runs out?
Applying to be back on the payroll, you mean? Rumour says that there will be no Funds remaining after the costs incurred in Portugal have been paid.
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There were private searches in the first week.
Who by ?
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Who by ?
Public. I don't know who but they are mentioned in an interview.
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Why would she be given a false identity if she was being kept in a lair unable to escape? I don't agree when he says that Madeleine couldn't have left Portugal without being detected. There was plenty of time for her to have been taken over the border.
Madeleine could have been taken by a lone Paedophile, though I believe it was organised, that people had been watching the McCann's apartment, it's too much of a coincidence that there were men posing as charity collectors sussing out apartments. One woman said a man actually entered her apartment and stared at her child.
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Why would she be given a false identity if she was being kept in a lair unable to escape? I don't agree when he says that Madeleine couldn't have left Portugal without being detected. There was plenty of time for her to have been taken over the border.
Madeleine could have been taken by a lone Paedophile, though I believe it was organised, that people had been watching the McCann's apartment, it's too much of a coincidence that there were men posing as charity collectors sussing out apartments. One woman said a man actually entered her apartment and stared at her child.
Not much for her to look forward to if that were the case.
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Not much for her to look forward to if that were the case.
No.
Not much for her to look forward to in either case, she was taken from her family who loved her.
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Underground 'lair'? I wonder how many of these he stumbled upon in his career. Zero?
The press need to stop asking this crank for an opinion.
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Underground 'lair'? I wonder how many of these he stumbled upon in his career. Zero?
The press need to stop asking this crank for an opinion.
Why on earth would anyone put those pictures into parent's heads? It's enough to give them nightmares.
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Underground 'lair'? I wonder how many of these he stumbled upon in his career. Zero?
The press need to stop asking this crank for an opinion.
There's more than any a few cranks giving opinions
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Underground 'lair'? I wonder how many of these he stumbled upon in his career. Zero?
The press need to stop asking this crank for an opinion.
That is rather disrespectful toward Dave Edgar.
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There's more than any a few cranks giving opinions
What are you implying?
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Why on earth would anyone put those pictures into parent's heads? It's enough to give them nightmares.
Would a parent find this thought better than death? In a lair she is still alive.
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What are you implying?
Once again.. Another poster uses an expression.. So I'm free to use it...
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Once again.. Another poster uses an expression.. So I'm free to use it...
Be honest and open with me. Once you wanted to come to Praia da Luz to spend some time there doing an investigation. That idea worried me.
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Be honest and open with me. Once you wanted to come to Praia da Luz to spend some time there doing an investigation. That idea worried me.
It was you who planned to go... I said I might possibly... Out of interest ...why would that worry anyone
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It was you who planned to go... I said I might possibly... Out of interest ...why would that worry anyone
I don't want it turning into a punch up.
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I don't want it turning into a punch up.
I've always found it's the quiet ones you need to watch.
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I don't want it turning into a punch up.
Those who are good with words don't have to resort to violence... So you needn't have worried
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It's wishful thinking pure and simple. There has never been anything revealed which could in any way suggest Maddie is alive and being held somewhere. The police believe her to be deceased and I concur.
Oh really?
Are you sure of that?
... or should that have IMO after it ?
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I don't want it turning into a punch up.
Personally, I dont want it turning into a one sided 'investigation'.
We have seen facts twisted and myths tuned into so called facts on here. I would prefer that equal numbers from our side were there at the same time to keep a balance and (sorry to say it) monitor what is happening.
The last thing that The Mccanns and the case need is new propaganda ... and twisted so called new facts being bandied about IMO.
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Oh really?
Are you sure of that?
... or should that have IMO after it ?
Beliefs are opinion I'd say.
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Personally, I dont want it turning into a one sided 'investigation'.
We have seen facts twisted and myths tuned into so called facts on here. I would prefer that equal numbers from our side were there at the same time to keep a balance and (sorry to say it) monitor what is happening.
The last thing that The Mccanns and the case need is new propaganda ... and twisted so called new facts being bandied about IMO.
OK I appreciate that.
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Personally, I dont want it turning into a one sided 'investigation'.
We have seen facts twisted and myths tuned into so called facts on here. I would prefer that equal numbers from our side were there at the same time to keep a balance and (sorry to say it) monitor what is happening.
The last thing that The Mccanns and the case need is new propaganda ... and twisted so called new facts being bandied about IMO.
Are you accusing Rob of intending to carry out a one sided investigation? You also seem to think that he's on a different 'side' to yours.
I think he's very honest and would never intentionally twist facts or promote myths. I also think he realises that beliefs aren't facts, which makes him more realistic than those who have an unshakeable belief in their own version of events and ignore any evidence which contradicts it.
I think it's quite insulting to suggest he needs monitoring.
Perhaps he'll find Edgar's 'lair'. @)(++(*
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Let’s hope Kate’s Christmas message this year refelects her gratefulness for the effort the Met are going to.
Let’s hope it doesn’t otherwise what will you have left to write about!
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Are you accusing Rob of intending to carry out a one sided investigation? You also seem to think that he's on a different 'side' to yours.
I think he's very honest and would never intentionally twist facts or promote myths. I also think he realises that beliefs aren't facts, which makes him more realistic than those who have an unshakeable belief in their own version of events and ignore any evidence which contradicts it.
I think it's quite insulting to suggest he needs monitoring.
Perhaps he'll find Edgar's 'lair'. @)(++(*
I think you may well have the, wrong idea about who is ignoring the, evidence... I think that is a similar comment to me saying some don't understand the evidence
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Are you accusing Rob of intending to carry out a one sided investigation? You also seem to think that he's on a different 'side' to yours.
I think he's very honest and would never intentionally twist facts or promote myths. I also think he realises that beliefs aren't facts, which makes him more realistic than those who have an unshakeable belief in their own version of events and ignore any evidence which contradicts it.
I think it's quite insulting to suggest he needs monitoring.
Perhaps he'll find Edgar's 'lair'. @)(++(*
A nice attempt at even-handedness but you blew it with your last sentence which was both tasteless and taking the piss. IMO.
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I don't see much value in any individual going to investigate... What do they hope to acheive
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A nice attempt at even-handedness but you blew it with your last sentence which was both tasteless and taking the piss. IMO.
Not at all. Just a light-hearted attempt to stay on topic.
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Not at all. Just a light-hearted attempt to stay on topic.
light-hearted about the concept of a paedophile’s lair? OK then.
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light-hearted about the concept of a paedophile’s lair? OK then.
I'm not the one suggesting, based only on a hunch, that there's an underground lair where a child has been kept for 11 years and abused. Save your outrage for the one who thinks it's acceptable to promote such ideas regardless of the effect it may have on the child's family.
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I'm not the one suggesting, based only on a hunch, that there's an underground lair where a child has been kept for 11 years and abused. Save your outrage for the one who thinks it's acceptable to promote such ideas regardless of the effect it may have on the child's family.
It is a legitimate theory and should not be sneered at. It has happened to other young girls and sneering at the concept is a great insult to them. Do you seriously think the thought had never crossed the McCanns’ minds until Edgar suggested it? At least he doesn’t appear to find the idea comical, like you appear to.
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light-hearted about the concept of a paedophile’s lair? OK then.
The term 'lair' suggests that this potential paedophile lives in a cave with a missing teenage girl, and has done for 11 years minimum.
The suggestion by Edgar, apparently a seasoned police officer who knows how unlikely that is, is ludicrous, to coin a phrase. He hasn't based that on any evidence, it's a wild, sensationalist finger in the air.
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The term 'lair' suggests that this potential paedophile lives in a cave with a missing teenage girl, and has done for 11 years minimum.
The suggestion by Edgar, apparently a seasoned police officer who knows how unlikely that is, is ludicrous, to coin a phrase. He hasn't based that on any evidence, it's a wild, sensationalist finger in the air.
Is “lair”Edgar’s word or the headline writer’s? Do you have any evidence that Edgar believes Madeleine is living in a cave?
lair1
/lɛː/Submit
noun
a place where a wild animal lives.
"the badgers carried the food back to their lair"
synonyms: den, burrow, hole, lie, covert, tunnel, dugout, hollow, cave, haunt
"the lair of a large python"
a secret or private place in which a person seeks concealment or seclusion.
"he led the police to the criminals' lair"
synonyms: hideaway, hiding place, hideout, refuge, sanctuary, haven, cache, shelter, retreat; informalhidey-hole
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I'm not the one suggesting, based only on a hunch, that there's an underground lair where a child has been kept for 11 years and abused. Save your outrage for the one who thinks it's acceptable to promote such ideas regardless of the effect it may have on the child's family.
Outrage for one who promotes such ideas regardless if the effect on the Childs family.... Yet you support amaral promoting ideas based on long discredited evidence
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It is a legitimate theory and should not be sneered at. It has happened to other young girls and sneering at the concept is a great insult to them. Do you seriously think the thought had never crossed the McCanns’ minds until Edgar suggested it? At least he doesn’t appear to find the idea comical, like you appear to.
Where's his evidence? He's an ex policeman and he thinks his hunches are worthy of serious consideration? I wasn't actually thinking of the effect on adults either.
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Outrage for one who promotes such ideas regardless if the effect on the Childs family.... Yet you support amaral promoting ideas based on long discredited evidence
There are theories based on evidence and theories based on hunches. Then there are opinions about evidence having been discredited.
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There are theories based on evidence and theories based on hunches. Then there are opinions about evidence having been discredited.
There are theories based on what some people think are evidence.... And often isn't.... According to the Guardian Almeida testified that the main evidence against the mccanns was the dog alerts....do you not realise the significance of the alerts... They are not proof of anything... And not evidence of anything. .that is not opinion... It's fact
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There are theories based on what some people think are evidence.... And often isn't.... According to the Guardian Almeida testified that the main evidence against the mccanns was the dog alerts....do you not realise the significance of the alerts... They are not proof of anything... And not evidence of anything. .that is not opinion... It's fact
You are entitled to your opinions but do they have to be repeated on every thread? Edgar freely admits he has no evidence so your opinions about Amaral's evidence or lack of it have no bearing on this discussion imo.
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You are entitled to your opinions but do they have to be repeated on every thread? Edgar freely admits he has no evidence so your opinions about Amaral's evidence or lack of it have no bearing on this discussion imo.
I think when you accuse people of promoting theories with no evidence and no concern for the parents it's totally relevant
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You are entitled to your opinions but do they have to be repeated on every thread? Edgar freely admits he has no evidence so your opinions about Amaral's evidence or lack of it have no bearing on this discussion imo.
I think we would need to know exactly what Edgar said before dismissing him as a crank..... From what I can see in some parts of the article he talks about his theory being possible.... Which is, absolutely true... If you want to go by the evidence you should realise that a newspaper article may not be reliable
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Is “lair”Edgar’s word or the headline writer’s? Do you have any evidence that Edgar believes Madeleine is living in a cave?
lair1
/lɛː/Submit
noun
a place where a wild animal lives.
"the badgers carried the food back to their lair"
synonyms: den, burrow, hole, lie, covert, tunnel, dugout, hollow, cave, haunt
"the lair of a large python"
a secret or private place in which a person seeks concealment or seclusion.
"he led the police to the criminals' lair"
synonyms: hideaway, hiding place, hideout, refuge, sanctuary, haven, cache, shelter, retreat; informalhidey-hole
What do I need evidence of? Either you're accepting cites or you're not now.
By the way, your copy and pasted definition doesn't take in to account that the quote clearly stated 'underground'.
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Most houses in Brittany have below ground garages and utility rooms. No one, even a near neighbour would know what goes on in these places. They all cover the entire ground floor, but they aren't lairs as such. They are all heated, with running water and a lavatory.
Personally, I think that David Edgar is wrong, but his theory is a possibility.
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Are you accusing Rob of intending to carry out a one sided investigation? You also seem to think that he's on a different 'side' to yours.
I think he's very honest and would never intentionally twist facts or promote myths. I also think he realises that beliefs aren't facts, which makes him more realistic than those who have an unshakeable belief in their own version of events and ignore any evidence which contradicts it.
I think it's quite insulting to suggest he needs monitoring.
Perhaps he'll find Edgar's 'lair'. @)(++(*
Thanks G-unit. That talk of the lair reminds me of the other case I investigated, where a lair was possibly involved and I did walk to the entrance to one of these long abandoned mines into the sides of the hills of the Marlborough Sounds. Antimony mines?/
(http://www.theprow.org.nz/assets/Your_stories/Ant-mine-181917.jpg)
http://www.theprow.org.nz/yourstory/endeavour-inlet-and-the-antimony-mine/#.XBtvm1UzbX4
That mine entrance looks very dangerous with all those loose rocks around the entrance.
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I don't see much value in any individual going to investigate... What do they hope to achieve.
I'd just let it happen. See what happens. You will be totally amazed by what will happen.
I'd say it could be similar to what happened to the McCanns with their trips to Fatima and Rome, who organised that? Who got the UK Consul to come to Praia da Luz? I can't guarantee it that it would be as significant as that, but who knows.
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I'd just let it happen. See what happens. You will be totally amazed by what will happen.
I'd say it could be similar to what happened to the McCanns with their trips to Fatima and Rome, who organised that? Who got the UK Consul to come to Praia da Luz? I can't guarantee it that it would be as significant as that, but who knows.
Do you mean the UK ambassador ? A visit by consul would be quite usual, visit by ambassador less so.
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Do you mean the UK ambassador ? A visit by consul would be quite usual, visit by ambassador less so.
The person that turned up on the 4th and spoke to the McCanns on the 5th. John Buck UK Ambassador.
"British Ambassador to Portugal John Buck speaks to the media the day after Madeleine's disappearance"
(https://news.bbcimg.co.uk/news/special/shorthands/29910/media/press_madeleine_reduced-mr.jpg)
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Do you mean the UK ambassador ? A visit by consul would be quite usual, visit by ambassador less so.
You think The British Embassy didn't know about The Ciprianos?
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You think The British Embassy didn't know about The Ciprianos?
I've no idea. Is it relevant?
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The person that turned up on the 4th and spoke to the McCanns on the 5th. John Buck UK Ambassador.
"British Ambassador to Portugal John Buck speaks to the media the day after Madeleine's disappearance"
(https://news.bbcimg.co.uk/news/special/shorthands/29910/media/press_madeleine_reduced-mr.jpg)
I wasn't suggesting that the Ambassador didn't turn out, merely that it was a task more usually carried out by a Consul.
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I've no idea. Is it relevant?
It is very relevant if The British Embassy suspected that Kate McCann could be subjected to the same treatment. And quite possibly the reason for why she wasn't.
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I wasn't suggesting that the Ambassador didn't turn out, merely that it was a task more usually carried out by a Consul.
For myself I was trying to lock his name, I've written about him several times but every time I have to look up his name "John Buck" UK Ambassador to Portugal in 2007.
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What do I need evidence of? Either you're accepting cites or you're not now.
By the way, your copy and pasted definition doesn't take in to account that the quote clearly stated 'underground'.
So what? The definition points out that “lair” is a word often used to describe a criminal’s hideout, and is not limited to meaning caves where animals live as you suggested previously.
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So what? The definition points out that “lair” is a word often used to describe a criminal’s hideout, and is not limited to meaning caves where animals live as you suggested previously.
You didn't answer the question.
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You didn't answer the question.
What question would that be? Do you mean the question you asked instead of giving an answer to my question?
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You didn't answer the question.
Is the post with the question still on the forum?
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Is the post with the question still on the forum?
Who can tell these days? I certainly can't.
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Most houses in Brittany have below ground garages and utility rooms. No one, even a near neighbour would know what goes on in these places. They all cover the entire ground floor, but they aren't lairs as such. They are all heated, with running water and a lavatory.
Personally, I think that David Edgar is wrong, but his theory is a possibility.
I agree. It is a theory like many others, and is one of the more probable ones than some of the cranks daft ideas.