Author Topic: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out  (Read 10044 times)

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Offline Paranoid Android

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2021, 08:32:08 PM »
I did say about 6 weeks ago that Stocky Man did the murder, that is correct. I don't think he can be completely ruled out as he was seen by an independent witness at a time when he was reported by Ju Jones to have been in the house. However, it could be possible he left the house without telling them, so him being seen out could mean something or nothing. I believe now that it is highly unlikely it was him, because he had no motive. I've become convinced in the last few weeks that this was not an attack by a random psychopath and that there was a motive behind it.

HAIR PULLED OUT BY THE ROOTS
FEMALE DNA on Jodi's clothing
NO SEXUAL ASSAULT


Those combined are serious RED FLAGS that the attacker could have been a female.

I would add that there is another 'clue' which comes from the hair pulling. Somebody intent on doing someone serious damage that is carrying a knife, machete or other bladed weapon and is already in a rage, is not going to begin that attack by pulling someone's hair out. I think that is really obvious. It would also be very difficult to do with one hand, if they had a weapon in the other. What makes much more logical sense is that Jodi was attacked by someone in a rage and her hair was violently pulled out at the roots during the struggle. The attacker then completely lost the plot and attacked her with a weapon and killed her.

"Hair being pulled out by the roots" is not something ever disclosed about any of Tobin or Sinclair's victims. Nor was it mentioned in the case of Frances Auld (not proven: charged with killing Amanda Duffy in Hamilton), or Gavin Maguire who killed Mhairi Julyan in Ayrshire in 1996 and was found guilty. Mhairi's injuries were horrendous and there are similarities with the attack on Jodi. In Mhairi's case there was a sexual assault and a horrific list of other injuries, but "hair pulled out by the roots was not one of them". Maguire was known to Police and had a horrendous record and had only been out of jail a short time when he did this murder. An equally horrendous killing was the murder of Moira Jones in Queen's Park in Glasgow in 2008. Again, a huge amount of injuries sustained but again, hair pulling was not one of them.

What I'm getting at is that 3 of the most violent psychopathic horrific murders in Scotland in the last 25 years along with the multiple murders carried out by Tobin and Sinclair, contained no reference to hair pulling. Men including psychopaths that commit murders like those above don't pull hair. Hair pulling in Jodi's case points to an attack by a female which escalated into using a weapon. When you add the female DNA found and no sexual motive.........you have a serious RED FLAG.

And here. at http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11975.msg644343#msg644343 , you say that "The person who did this did not walk back along the path in either direction, they exited by heading across the field towards Newbattle College and the golf club".

Do you still think that?

Offline Rusty

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2021, 08:56:44 PM »
I did say about 6 weeks ago that Stocky Man did the murder, that is correct. I don't think he can be completely ruled out as he was seen by an independent witness at a time when he was reported by Ju Jones to have been in the house. However, it could be possible he left the house without telling them, so him being seen out could mean something or nothing. I believe now that it is highly unlikely it was him, because he had no motive. I've become convinced in the last few weeks that this was not an attack by a random psychopath and that there was a motive behind it.

HAIR PULLED OUT BY THE ROOTS
FEMALE DNA on Jodi's clothing
NO SEXUAL ASSAULT


Those combined are serious RED FLAGS that the attacker could have been a female.

I would add that there is another 'clue' which comes from the hair pulling. Somebody intent on doing someone serious damage that is carrying a knife, machete or other bladed weapon and is already in a rage, is not going to begin that attack by pulling someone's hair out. I think that is really obvious. It would also be very difficult to do with one hand, if they had a weapon in the other. What makes much more logical sense is that Jodi was attacked by someone in a rage and her hair was violently pulled out at the roots during the struggle. The attacker then completely lost the plot and attacked her with a weapon and killed her.

"Hair being pulled out by the roots" is not something ever disclosed about any of Tobin or Sinclair's victims. Nor was it mentioned in the case of Frances Auld (not proven: charged with killing Amanda Duffy in Hamilton), or Gavin Maguire who killed Mhairi Julyan in Ayrshire in 1996 and was found guilty. Mhairi's injuries were horrendous and there are similarities with the attack on Jodi. In Mhairi's case there was a sexual assault and a horrific list of other injuries, but "hair pulled out by the roots was not one of them". Maguire was known to Police and had a horrendous record and had only been out of jail a short time when he did this murder. An equally horrendous killing was the murder of Moira Jones in Queen's Park in Glasgow in 2008. Again, a huge amount of injuries sustained but again, hair pulling was not one of them.

What I'm getting at is that 3 of the most violent psychopathic horrific murders in Scotland in the last 25 years along with the multiple murders carried out by Tobin and Sinclair, contained no reference to hair pulling. Men including psychopaths that commit murders like those above don't pull hair. Hair pulling in Jodi's case points to an attack by a female which escalated into using a weapon. When you add the female DNA found and no sexual motive.........you have a serious RED FLAG.

Think somebody has been watching too much CSI. Next week it will have been a dog that done it, since there was saliva at the scene.

You found a source to back up the claim made about the tool hire worker yet?

Offline William Wallace

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2021, 10:17:57 PM »
And here. at http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11975.msg644343#msg644343 , you say that "The person who did this did not walk back along the path in either direction, they exited by heading across the field towards Newbattle College and the golf club".

Do you still think that?

I think they definitely didn't walk down the path in either direction, because they would not want to risk being seen. The easiest escape route on foot would be to head across the field to the trees near the College and the golf course because there are far more trees there than at the path. However, although that seems a likely route, they would then have to hide in there not knowing how soon Police would start arriving in the area which would be very risky, as would trying to get back to their house from those woods. There is a possibility they went that way, but I'm not as sure as before that they did. Which begs the question, how did they manage to "disappear" undetected?
 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 10:42:43 PM by William Wallace »

Offline William Wallace

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2021, 11:04:22 PM »
A few weeks ago, William was saying that LM was guilty, and that was after reading SL's book.

I wonder what has changed his mind??

That is true. I read all the stuff in the papers daily for about a year back in 2003-2005. Every day there was a new story about Mitchell and something horrendous, usually to do with Satan or some other made up nonsense like he was obsessed with Manson and the Black Dahlia Murder. None of which has ever been proved. As a result of all that media coverage I was one of the huge majority who believed he did it. I read Sandra Lean's book almost 2 years ago and I swithered between he did it and he didn't for months. Eventually I concluded that despite all the Police failings and what is in the book, he did it. However, more recently I analysed the book again much more thoroughly and did other research into what was known as fact and what was possibly made up, such as the nonsense about Black Dahlia and Manson. I spent a lot of time going over all the evidence against him and found the majority of it was seriously flawed. I am now certain he didn't do it and I think I know who did and why, but obviously I cannot go into detail about that unfortunately, because it could be wrong of course.

So in short, yes I have changed my mind about whether he did it or not, but most people probably have too. It's a complex case full of lies and evidence that was fabricated to fit the Police narrative and the timelines don't make any sense.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2022, 10:19:43 PM by William Wallace »

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2021, 11:49:38 PM »
I think they definitely didn't walk down the path in either direction, because they would not want to risk being seen. The easiest escape route on foot would be to head across the field to the trees near the College and the golf course because there are far more trees there than at the path. However, although that seems a likely route, they would then have to hide in there not knowing how soon Police would start arriving in the area which would be very risky, as would trying to get back to their house from those woods. There is a possibility they went that way, but I'm not as sure as before that they did. Which begs the question, how did they manage to "disappear" undetected?

So, if they headed towards the college, it probably wouldn't be someone from Easthouses, Mayfield or Newtongrange?

Offline William Wallace

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2021, 01:18:38 AM »
You could think it means that, but alternatively it was probably the easiest way to avoid coming across anyone. There are a lot of trees over that side, it's much denser than the thin band of trees along the path. The chances of anybody being in those thick woods are very low. If they had gone across the field at the path side of the wall over the Mary Burn that route would be facing houses so that can surely be ruled out. The only route where they would have been highly unlikely to meet anyone would have been across the field towards the woods beside the College or the golf course. They obviously didn't go back along the Roan's Dyke footpath in any direction to avoid being seen. For that reason, I'm pretty sure they must have headed over to those thick woods. I've been down that path and from where the V is, the route across the field to the woods looks like the only possible way anyone would go. The other possible routes looked way too risky. In fact they looked like total non-starters, particularly at around 5-6pm in broad daylight and hot weather. If it had been at 11pm at night and dark, it would have been very hard to guess which way they went.

Pretty much the only sensible escape route would have been the one over to those woods. I don't recall whether the Police ever searched in there, I don't think they did, but I'm not certain.






Offline Paranoid Android

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2021, 02:17:29 AM »
You could think it means that, but alternatively it was probably the easiest way to avoid coming across anyone. There are a lot of trees over that side, it's much denser than the thin band of trees along the path. The chances of anybody being in those thick woods are very low. If they had gone across the field at the path side of the wall over the Mary Burn that route would be facing houses so that can surely be ruled out. The only route where they would have been highly unlikely to meet anyone would have been across the field towards the woods beside the College or the golf course. They obviously didn't go back along the Roan's Dyke footpath in any direction to avoid being seen. For that reason, I'm pretty sure they must have headed over to those thick woods. I've been down that path and from where the V is, the route across the field to the woods looks like the only possible way anyone would go. The other possible routes looked way too risky. In fact they looked like total non-starters, particularly at around 5-6pm in broad daylight and hot weather. If it had been at 11pm at night and dark, it would have been very hard to guess which way they went.

Pretty much the only sensible escape route would have been the one over to those woods. I don't recall whether the Police ever searched in there, I don't think they did, but I'm not certain.

I would actually take issue with that - the woods where the murder took place are/were actually quite dense.

Either way, you're talking about someone with a fairly detailed knowledge of those woods.

Also, the thought process would be akin to that of LM (if it was him) - how to get away without being seen.

Another point would be that those woods in June would be busier than usual with people talking a summer walk - not ideal for hiding - even now, in early April, you'll pass people out for a walk all the time.

I've said this before - any local teenager would know those woods like the back of their hand - especially if making regular walks between Newbattle and Easthouses.

Offline Brietta

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2021, 10:00:19 AM »
I would actually take issue with that - the woods where the murder took place are/were actually quite dense.

Either way, you're talking about someone with a fairly detailed knowledge of those woods.

Also, the thought process would be akin to that of LM (if it was him) - how to get away without being seen.

Another point would be that those woods in June would be busier than usual with people talking a summer walk - not ideal for hiding - even now, in early April, you'll pass people out for a walk all the time.

I've said this before - any local teenager would know those woods like the back of their hand - especially if making regular walks between Newbattle and Easthouses.

Agreed that the locals would be very familiar with every nook and cranny of that area; from personal experience of spending my formative years ranging far and wide through similar territory there wasn't an inch my friends and I didn't know while being able to enter and leave unseen if we wanted to.  It was all part of the learning process.

Mitchell was a dog walker I believe  so it would have been excellent territory for dogs;  mine loves sniffing around trees where there isn't too much briar undergrowth (even if totally overgrown it isn't an obstacle for her) and I know all the surrounding paths very well.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline mrswah

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Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2021, 10:46:28 AM »
That is true. I read all the stuff in the papers daily for about a year back in 2003-2005. Every day there was a new story about Mitchell and something horrendous, usually to do with Satan or some other made up nonsense like he was obsessed with Manson and the Black Dahlia Murder. None of which has ever been proved. As a result of all that media coverage I was one of the huge majority who believed he did it. I read Sandra Lean's book almost 2 years ago and I swithered between he did it and he didn't for months. Eventually I concluded that despite all the Police failings and what is in the book, he did it. However, more recently I analysed the book again much more thoroughly and did other research into what was known as fact and what was possibly made up, such as the nonsense about Black Dahlia and Manson. I spent a lot of time going over all the evidence against him and found the majority of it was seriously flawed. I am now certain he didn't do it and I think I know who did and why, but obviously I cannot go into detail about that unfortunately, because it could be wrong of course.

So in short, yes I have changed my mind about whether he did it or not, but most people probably have too. It's a complex case full of lies and evidence that was fabricated to fit the Police narrative and the timelines don't make any sense. The A.O statement that was "discovered" later  which was never referred to in Court and the fact A.O was never cited to give evidence despite being in the house when Jodi allegedly went out is more than highly suspect.

Thanks for answering, William. I've been looking around on various forums, and there seem to be a lot of people who have changed their minds about this case!

To be honest, I had never heard of it before joining this forum, a few years ago, but then, I'm not from Scotland.

 From what I've read, I lean towards Luke being innocent, but I could be wrong---------.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2021, 11:00:39 AM »
Thanks for answering, William. I've been looking around on various forums, and there seem to be a lot of people who have changed their minds about this case!

To be honest, I had never heard of it before joining this forum, a few years ago, but then, I'm not from Scotland.

 From what I've read, I lean towards Luke being innocent, but I could be wrong---------.

We could all be wrong but the real question is was the Crown’s case proved beyond reasonable doubt and with a majority verdict and so many questions still being asked almost 20 years later, the answer must be no.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline mrswah

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Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2021, 11:23:20 AM »
We could all be wrong but the real question is was the Crown’s case proved beyond reasonable doubt and with a majority verdict and so many questions still being asked almost 20 years later, the answer must be no.

I agree. Certainly not proved beyond reasonable doubt, from what I know.

Offline Brietta

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2021, 11:41:50 AM »
I agree. Certainly not proved beyond reasonable doubt, from what I know.

I don't think you know a great deal about the case ~ neither do I ~ and neither does anyone who didn't sit through the evidence being presented in perhaps the longest trial of a single person ever held in Scotland.

The members of the jury did and they delivered a majority verdict which was both considered and lawful.  A verdict which has since been upheld on appeal.

Mitchell's advocate was considered as the foremost in Scotland but it seems not even he could prevail against the sum and substance of the evidence presented which convicted Mitchell; foremost of which was his false alibi.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2021, 12:11:59 PM »
I don't think you know a great deal about the case ~ neither do I ~ and neither does anyone who didn't sit through the evidence being presented in perhaps the longest trial of a single person ever held in Scotland.

The members of the jury did and they delivered a majority verdict which was both considered and lawful.  A verdict which has since been upheld on appeal.

Mitchell's advocate was considered as the foremost in Scotland but it seems not even he could prevail against the sum and substance of the evidence presented which convicted Mitchell; foremost of which was his false alibi.

The jury can only deliver a verdict on the evidence that is presented to them. Obviously, with a majority verdict, some were not happy that even the evidence presented reached a sufficient standard for conviction.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline William Wallace

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2021, 03:46:16 PM »
Thanks for answering, William. I've been looking around on various forums, and there seem to be a lot of people who have changed their minds about this case!

To be honest, I had never heard of it before joining this forum, a few years ago, but then, I'm not from Scotland.

 From what I've read, I lean towards Luke being innocent, but I could be wrong---------.

Thanks. I don't mind admitting at all that I've changed my mind more than once over the past 2 years. I have spent probably more time analysing it than I should have, but never mind!

Offline William Wallace

Re: The POLICE were too STUPID to fathom this out
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2021, 03:54:15 PM »
I would actually take issue with that - the woods where the murder took place are/were actually quite dense.

Either way, you're talking about someone with a fairly detailed knowledge of those woods.

Also, the thought process would be akin to that of LM (if it was him) - how to get away without being seen.

Another point would be that those woods in June would be busier than usual with people talking a summer walk - not ideal for hiding - even now, in early April, you'll pass people out for a walk all the time.

I've said this before - any local teenager would know those woods like the back of their hand - especially if making regular walks between Newbattle and Easthouses.

You may know the area better than me, but the trees behind the wall although dense, they're not very spread out width wise are they? Are they not very close to the field?  I find your comment about those other woods near the College and golf course being busier than I imagined interesting because if that would not be a good place to hide, then it doesn't leave much, assuming the killer did hide that is of course.