UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧

Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Alfred R Jones on March 24, 2015, 06:19:02 PM

Title: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 24, 2015, 06:19:02 PM
...how do you hope to achieve your aim if the case is closed unsolved?  What will be your next step?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2015, 08:56:09 PM
Who are they?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: carlymichelle on March 24, 2015, 08:57:23 PM
Who are they?

exactly  dont mcann supporters want justice for maddie too??
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 24, 2015, 09:12:41 PM
Who are they?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JusticeForMadeleine/?fref=ts

34,600 members...all wanting Justice For Maddie....no doubt all wanting Operation Grange closed like the sceptics on here
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: misty on March 24, 2015, 09:24:26 PM
It's all clever reverse psychology by SY & the MSM.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 24, 2015, 10:15:11 PM
...how do you hope to achieve your aim if the case is closed unsolved?  What will be your next step?

What is your point Alf?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 24, 2015, 10:16:29 PM
Who are they?
They are the people who say they are fightng for "Justice For Maddie" but who are also hyper critical of the current investigation and who feel it should come to an end asap. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 25, 2015, 12:16:19 AM
They are the people who say they are fightng for "Justice For Maddie" but who are also hyper critical of the current investigation and who feel it should come to an end asap.

IMO they couldn't care less about Madeleine.  Their only aim is to hurt her mum and dad.   If to achieve that goal means removing Madeleine's right to be found - then that's fine by them.   Very sad.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 25, 2015, 06:38:20 AM
They are the people who say they are fightng for "Justice For Maddie" but who are also hyper critical of the current investigation and who feel it should come to an end asap.

Perhaps they are pinning their hopes on the PJ solving it ? Some seem to have forgotten but they have re-opened the investigation.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2015, 07:05:12 AM
Perhaps they are pinning their hopes on the PJ solving it ? Some seem to have forgotten but they have re-opened the investigation.

Then it shows just how stupid these people are
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 25, 2015, 07:14:58 AM
Then it shows just how stupid these people are

Why ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2015, 07:16:34 AM
Why ?

If you don't know why you never will
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 25, 2015, 07:23:10 AM
If you don't know why you never will

Well I don't know but you seem to. Would you mind explaining ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2015, 07:31:43 AM
Well I don't know but you seem to. Would you mind explaining ?

pointless
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 25, 2015, 08:18:42 AM
Perhaps they are pinning their hopes on the PJ solving it ? Some seem to have forgotten but they have re-opened the investigation.
Ah, so these Justice Campaigners don't care about the cost of a further investigation borne by the PT tax payer, just so long as the chances of a McCann conviction are marginally higher...?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2015, 09:29:28 AM
They seem to be thoughtful enough to call her Madeleine, the name she (allegedly) preferred.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 25, 2015, 09:57:42 AM
Ah, so these Justice Campaigners don't care about the cost of a further investigation borne by the PT tax payer, just so long as the chances of a McCann conviction are marginally higher...?


That would be the icing on the cake and worth every penny    ?{)(**
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 25, 2015, 11:48:37 AM
...how do you hope to achieve your aim if the case is closed unsolved?  What will be your next step?

Now that you've told us where they are may I suggest that you go and ask them Alfred.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 25, 2015, 11:50:04 AM
Now that you've told us where they are may I suggest that you go and ask them Alfred.

you would get no sense out of them whatsoever
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 25, 2015, 02:55:22 PM

That would be the icing on the cake and worth every penny    ?{)(**
So the only outcome to this case that you think would be worthwhile is if the McCanns get banged up at the end of it?  Never mind who actually dunnit as long as the McCanns are punished?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 25, 2015, 02:56:48 PM
Now that you've told us where they are may I suggest that you go and ask them Alfred.
I'm asking the ones here, I didn't specify where they hung out.  I think you'll find that a few members of this forum claim that there raison d'etre is "Justice For Maddie" as well. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 25, 2015, 03:02:38 PM
So the only outcome to this case that you think would be worthwhile is if the McCanns get banged up at the end of it?  Never mind who actually dunnit as long as the McCanns are punished?


Only when they are found guilty.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 25, 2015, 03:28:02 PM

Only when they are found guilty.
You are 100% convinced they dunnit then?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 25, 2015, 03:32:55 PM
You are 100% convinced they dunnit then?

Not 100%, but I'll only change my opinion when the authorities convict someone else for Madeleine's disappearance and probable demise.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 25, 2015, 03:58:02 PM
Not 100%, but I'll only change my opinion when the authorities convict someone else for Madeleine's disappearance and probable demise.
And if they do that will that not also be money well spent, or a bit of a let down and not worth the time and expense, in your view?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 25, 2015, 04:02:44 PM
And if they do that will that not also be money well spent, or a bit of a let down and not worth the time and expense, in your view?

Do stop trying to put words into my mouth, there's a good chap.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 25, 2015, 04:11:50 PM
Do stop trying to put words into my mouth, there's a good chap.
Do try and read the question - I gave you an option: money well spent or a big let down and waste of money and time?  I asked for your view, I did not put words into your mouth.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 25, 2015, 08:02:37 PM
I'm asking the ones here, I didn't specify where they hung out.  I think you'll find that a few members of this forum claim that there raison d'etre is "Justice For Maddie" as well.

Oh come now Alfred, the forum is named UK JUSTICE FORUM. FGS.  are you saying that you do not want justice for Maddie? Are you confusing 'campaigners' with those who come to discuss the case? I think you do

OR

Do you and others just come here to troll? OK fine by me. You have no argument or mature reasoning to offer, not worth the bother.  We are the baddies and you are the goodies  yeahhhhhh!  *chuckles*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2015, 02:26:54 PM
I'm just wondering about the mentality of folk who

(a) set up a poll on FB and

(b) actually participated by voting on the likeliest place for Madeleine McCann's burial site.

One of the options for the apparently intellectually challenged to tick in response to "where Maddie is BURIED" is Still Alive.
Some of them actually selected that.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 26, 2015, 02:34:58 PM
Probably no stranger than  people who actively search these sites out just so that they can criticise them
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 26, 2015, 02:41:10 PM
Probably no stranger than  people who actively search these sites out just so that they can criticise them

Do people really do that?

 *&*%£
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 26, 2015, 02:47:23 PM
I'm just wondering about the mentality of folk who

(a) set up a poll on FB and

(b) actually participated by voting on the likeliest place for Madeleine McCann's burial site.

One of the options for the apparently intellectually challenged to tick in response to "where Maddie is BURIED" is Still Alive.
Some of them actually selected that.
OMG, I thought I'd heard it all but that really is sick.   8(8-))
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 26, 2015, 02:47:26 PM
Do people really do that?

 *&*%£

Must do. I never come across these sites, but then I don't look for them.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2015, 03:15:49 PM
Probably no stranger than  people who actively search these sites out just so that they can criticise them

Now there is a point for debate.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
OMG, I thought I'd heard it all but that really is sick.   8(8-))

Amazing how coy and defensive people become when some of the excesses of these sites are exposed to the light of day.

One can only assume there is a general realisation of how sick they actually are.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 26, 2015, 04:21:40 PM
Amazing how coy and defensive people become when some of the excesses of these sites are exposed to the light of day.

One can only assume there is a general realisation of how sick they actually are.

Trying to tar everyone with the same brush again Brietta. How very 1939 of you.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 26, 2015, 04:23:31 PM
Trying to tar everyone with the same brush again Brietta. How very 1939 of you.
*Irony Klaxon*  Read what you've just written and then read your signature line.  Egg very much on face methinks.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 26, 2015, 04:37:35 PM
*Irony Klaxon*  Read what you've just written and then read your signature line.  Egg very much on face methinks.

Not in the least Alfie. My signature refers to the supporters and all those who took part in the hounding of BL. For the record I believe that the vast majority of people who support the McCanns are decent, empathetic people. Brietta was referring to those that don't as one homogenous, evil group much, it has to be said, like the propoganda the Nazis disseminated against the Jews in the 1930s.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
Not in the least Alfie. My signature refers to the supporters and all those who took part in the hounding of BL. For the record I believe that the vast majority of people who support the McCanns are decent, empathetic people. Brietta was referring to those that don't as one homogenous, evil group much, it has to be said, like the propoganda the Nazis disseminated against the Jews in the 1930s.

I hadn't read your signature until just now.

Now why is it you feel the necessity to compare me to a Nazi propagandists?  Didn't you know ... Je suis Juif ??
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 26, 2015, 05:18:15 PM
I hadn't read your signature until just now.

Now why is it you feel the necessity to compare me to a Nazi propagandists?  Didn't you know ... Je suis Juif ??
It's funny Faithlilly should  bring up Nazi propagandists because I am always put in mind of Adolf in full-on rant whenever I read one of the Stud Muffin's more choleric blog entries.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 26, 2015, 06:26:00 PM
It's funny Faithlilly should  bring up Nazi propagandists because I am always put in mind of Adolf in full-on rant whenever I read one of the Stud Muffin's more choleric blog entries.

Perhaps she should speak to admin about opening a thread on Nazi propaganda ... except I think she realises that she might find herself taking second prize in the ensuing debate.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 26, 2015, 07:12:53 PM
It's funny Faithlilly should  bring up Nazi propagandists because I am always put in mind of Adolf in full-on rant whenever I read one of the Stud Muffin's more choleric blog entries.

I see him more as a Horwich than a Hitler.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 26, 2015, 07:15:40 PM
I see him more as a Horwich than a Hitler.

I see him as someone who wanted to be a journalist but was nowhere near good enough...so now he peddles his wares for nothing on the net...
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 26, 2015, 07:17:26 PM
I see him as someone who wanted to be a journalist but was nowhere near good enough...so now he peddles his wares for nothing on the net...
@)(++(* 8((()*/
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 26, 2015, 07:23:18 PM
@)(++(* 8((()*/

As William Penn mused "The jealous are troublesome to others, but a torment to themselves"

Don't be that person Alfie  8(8-))
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 26, 2015, 07:24:41 PM
As William Penn mused "The jealous are troublesome to others, but a torment to themselves"

Don't be that person Alfie  8(8-))

could you tell me who penned "the truth hurts"
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 10:13:02 AM
Not in the least Alfie. My signature refers to the supporters and all those who took part in the hounding of BL. For the record I believe that the vast majority of people who support the McCanns are decent, empathetic people. Brietta was referring to those that don't as one homogenous, evil group much, it has to be said, like the propoganda the Nazis disseminated against the Jews in the 1930s.


I hadn't read your signature either until now Faithlilly,    how dare you!!!    Who do you think you are to say that about all who support the parents of a missing child?     I am here because I care about Madeleine and want her found.      Brenda Leyland posted nasty tweets,   her name was among many others who do the same.   Brenda Leyland was ashamed of what she had done she was also mentally fragile,  something Martin Brunt could not have known.   

Your war with anti and pro's is your problem,   but don't you add me into your nasty opinion of all who are here to find out what happened to Madeleine. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 10:34:40 AM

I hadn't read your signature either until now Faithlilly,    how dare you!!!    Who do you think you are to say that about all who support the parents of a missing child?     I am here because I care about Madeleine and want her found.      Brenda Leyland posted nasty tweets,   her name was among many others who do the same.   Brenda Leyland was ashamed of what she had done she was also mentally fragile,  something Martin Brunt could not have known.   

Your war with anti and pro's is your problem,   but don't you add me into your nasty opinion of all who are here to find out what happened to Madeleine.

If you didn't take part in the hounding of BL then my signature is not directed at you Lace. As I have already said I have no problem with people who believe the parent's story, some of my friends do, or post in a supportive manner but that's a far cry from the rabid group who targetted Brenda Leyland and hounded her to her death. Those individuals reside in a moral vacuum where only one view is tolerated, any dissenters are viewed as subhuman and any action, no matter how abhorent, is tolerated as long it hurts 'the other side'.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 10:42:45 AM
If you didn't take part in the hounding of BL then my signature is not directed at you Lace. As I have already said I have no problem with people who believe the parent's story, some of my friends do, or post in a supportive manner but that's a far cry from the rabid group who targetted Brenda Leyland and hounded her to her death. Those individuals reside in a moral vacuum where only one view is tolerated, any dissenters are viewed as subhuman and any action, no matter how abhorent, is tolerated as long it hurts 'the other side'.

I am not on twitter,   however I read there sometimes.    I read some of Brenda Leylands tweets and as far as I can see she give back as good as she got.   

When you take part in a war on twitter it is entirely upon your head,    Brenda Leyland knew what she was doing she hounded a girl off twitter from  what I read on there and was quite jubilant with what she had achieved. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 27, 2015, 10:43:26 AM
If you didn't take part in the hounding of BL then my signature is not directed at you Lace. As I have already said I have no problem with people who believe the parent's story, some of my friends do, or post in a supportive manner but that's a far cry from the rabid group who targetted Brenda Leyland and hounded her to her death. Those individuals reside in a moral vacuum where only one view is tolerated, any dissenters are viewed as subhuman and any action, no matter how abhorent, is tolerated as long it hurts 'the other side'.

In that case you need to reword it. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 27, 2015, 10:45:04 AM
Not in the least Alfie. My signature refers to the supporters and all those who took part in the hounding of BL. For the record I believe that the vast majority of people who support the McCanns are decent, empathetic people. Brietta was referring to those that don't as one homogenous, evil group much, it has to be said, like the propoganda the Nazis disseminated against the Jews in the 1930s.

From memory so could be wrong - but wasn't it established at the Inquest that BL did not use Twitter after her 'meeting' with Martin Brunt?    So would she have read any tweets from either 'side'?

I hope that is the case as that means she would not have seen her 'friends' turning their backs on her.  Something which IMO would be far more devastating for her than reactions to her behaviour from the other 'side'- and something which you appear to have overlooked with your usual 'selective' approach.

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 10:47:09 AM
In that case you need to reword it.

Firstly I didn't write the quote. Secondly no rewording needed.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 10:50:06 AM
Firstly I didn't write the quote. Secondly no rewording needed.

I think you do Faithlilly   as no one was responsible for BL's death and it is nasty and cruel to state otherwise.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 10:54:19 AM
I am not on twitter,   however I read there sometimes.    I read some of Brenda Leylands tweets and as far as I can see she give back as good as she got.   

When you take part in a war on twitter it is entirely upon your head,    Brenda Leyland knew what she was doing she hounded a girl off twitter from  what I read on there and was quite jubilant with what she had achieved.

Twitter wars are one thing. What was done to BL is something else entirely.

Lace if you were not part of the group who hounded BL, and I don't believe you were, I don't know why you would want to identify yourself with them.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 27, 2015, 11:16:37 AM
Twitter wars are one thing. What was done to BL is something else entirely.

Lace if you were not part of the group who hounded BL, and I don't believe you were, I don't know why you would want to identify yourself with them.

Are you saying that you are excluding Tweeters as 'hounders?   
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 11:18:48 AM
There is a thread to discuss Brenda Leyland's death and it is not this one.

This is a discussion on a particularly vile Facebook group of like minded individuals.  Most normal people would run a mile from people who attest that a Facebook campaign specifically dedicated to spreading lies equates with justice?

The police investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance represents justice, certainly not vindictive smears on Facebook with her parents as prime targets.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 11:19:07 AM
Twitter wars are one thing. What was done to BL is something else entirely.

Lace if you were not part of the group who hounded BL, and I don't believe you were, I don't know why you would want to identify yourself with them.

I can stand back and see the full picture.

BL on twitter practically living as a different person to how she was perceived in her village.   Venting her anger about the McCann's with others who felt the same.

Though it went far far over the top from just debating the McCann case.    Someone comes along who they believe is Amy the nanny from the OC.   BL posts nasty messages to her even calling her a prostitute,  the girl leaves BL is glad happy that this girl is 'scared'.

Pro's give her some of her own treatment she argues back.

Some of the tweets are to the McCann's and the twins.

Someone is very worried how these tweets are escalating out of control,  not just BL but others as well.   This person cannot live with the fact that some nutcase could well go and carry out what is being tweeted.

This person takes the tweets to the police.

A journalist traces BL down,  she gives her real name on line so that is easy to do.    He confronts her as 'sweepyface'  not her real name,   her address is not given.    Later he is packing up when BL comes back and invites him into her home.    BL knew Martin Brunt as she had tweeted to him many times.

BL with a mental condition that made her moods swing up and down then hides away from all the attention.   Who knows then what else went through her mind as there were many other things going on at the same time.   BL decides to end it all.

You see how could any one have known the outcome of all this?     No one could have,  no one is to blame.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 11:21:04 AM
Are you saying that you are excluding Tweeters as 'hounders?

I have noticed that they appear to be one and the same ... their names appear wherever they can direct their vitriol at the parents of a missing child.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 11:21:16 AM
Are you saying that you are excluding Tweeters as 'hounders?

We are adults and there is an on off button on your computer.

What happened to BL is something else entirely.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 11:26:31 AM
I can stand back and see the full picture.

BL on twitter practically living as a different person to how she was perceived in her village.   Venting her anger about the McCann's with others who felt the same.

Though it went far far over the top from just debating the McCann case.    Someone comes along who they believe is Amy the nanny from the OC.   BL posts nasty messages to her even calling her a prostitute,  the girl leaves BL is glad happy that this girl is 'scared'.

Pro's give her some of her own treatment she argues back.

Some of the tweets are to the McCann's and the twins.

Someone is very worried how these tweets are escalating out of control,  not just BL but others as well.   This person cannot live with the fact that some nutcase could well go and carry out what is being tweeted.

This person takes the tweets to the police.

A journalist traces BL down,  she gives her real name on line so that is easy to do.    He confronts her as 'sweepyface'  not her real name,   her address is not given.    Later he is packing up when BL comes back and invites him into her home.    BL knew Martin Brunt as she had tweeted to him many times.

BL with a mental condition that made her moods swing up and down then hides away from all the attention.   Who knows then what else went through her mind as there were many other things going on at the same time.   BL decides to end it all.

You see how could any one have known the outcome of all this?     No one could have,  no one is to blame.

I can only hope that you are never targetted in the same way as BL Lace.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 27, 2015, 11:32:28 AM
We are adults and there is an on off button on your computer.

What happened to BL is something else entirely.


Only to those deluding themselves that black is white and seeking to present the perpetrator as the victim IMO.

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 11:34:08 AM

Only to those deluding themselves that black is white and seeking to present the perpetrator as the victim IMO.

So who did BL hound to their death Benice ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 11:36:34 AM
I can only hope that you are never targetted in the same way as BL Lace.


This thread concerns the activities of a deplorable Facebook group ... and there is really quite a lot that can be said about them ... Mrs Leyland can be discussed on the thread set up to do that.

It seems that one of our members is reluctant to take that on board ... I do not wonder why.


Kate threatened with death


Kate McCann received a death threat over the internet, which is being treated with special care by British police, due to the fact that the mother of Maddie, missing child in 2007 in Praia da Luz, Algarve, go run the London Marathon event next month.

According to the English press yesterday, the threat of death to Kate, 45, consists of a profile of the social network Facebook, the web, whose identity remains to be determined.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/kate-ameacada-de-morte.html
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 11:44:18 AM
I can only hope that you are never targetted in the same way as BL Lace.

I won't be as I wouldn't post nasty threats and hound innocent young girls on the internet,   it is not something I would do.


Can I ask you something Faithlilly?    If that girl who was hounded off the internet had committed suicide  how would the people hounding her  have felt?    After all,   no one knows if this girl has mental health issues.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 27, 2015, 11:46:06 AM
So who did BL hound to their death Benice ?

I don't believe she was hounded to her death Faith.

(sorry must go out - will be happy to carry on later)


Sorry I misread your post in my haste.    I've never claimed BL hunded anyone to their death.

Bye for now
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2015, 11:46:45 AM
I'm asking the ones here, I didn't specify where they hung out.  I think you'll find that a few members of this forum claim that there raison d'etre is "Justice For Maddie" as well.

Seems Brietta and Alfred disagree as to where these Campaigners can be found.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 11:55:35 AM
Seems Brietta and Alfred disagree as to where these Campaigners can be found.

Sorry?? ... what on earth gives you that idea?   IMO some of them may even be fellow posters here, they abound in all corners of the internet, not in the thousands they would have us believe ... just a rump of sad individuals each one with many faces.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: John on March 27, 2015, 12:21:23 PM
I can stand back and see the full picture.

BL on twitter practically living as a different person to how she was perceived in her village.   Venting her anger about the McCann's with others who felt the same.

Though it went far far over the top from just debating the McCann case.    Someone comes along who they believe is Amy the nanny from the OC.   BL posts nasty messages to her even calling her a prostitute,  the girl leaves BL is glad happy that this girl is 'scared'.

Pro's give her some of her own treatment she argues back.

Some of the tweets are to the McCann's and the twins.

Someone is very worried how these tweets are escalating out of control,  not just BL but others as well.   This person cannot live with the fact that some nutcase could well go and carry out what is being tweeted.

This person takes the tweets to the police.

A journalist traces BL down,  she gives her real name on line so that is easy to do.    He confronts her as 'sweepyface'  not her real name,   her address is not given.    Later he is packing up when BL comes back and invites him into her home.    BL knew Martin Brunt as she had tweeted to him many times.

BL with a mental condition that made her moods swing up and down then hides away from all the attention.   Who knows then what else went through her mind as there were many other things going on at the same time.   BL decides to end it all.

You see how could any one have known the outcome of all this?     No one could have,  no one is to blame.

I agree with all you have posted except for the last five words.

Brunt and his producer were out of order.  They targeted a woman on her own in the most despicable way and I for one have no problem in blaming them for Brenda's death.

Sky could have pursued this issue in a much more sensitive way but no, they went for the sensational factor and now a woman is dead!
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 12:35:39 PM
I agree with all you have posted except for the last five words.

Brunt and his producer were out of order.  They targeted a woman on her own in the most despicable way and I for one have no problem in blaming them for Brenda's death.

Sky could have pursued this issue in a much more sensitive way but no, they went for the sensational factor and now a woman is dead!


BL tweeted Martin Brunt John,   how do you know she didn't agree to see him?   she didn't seem at all surprised when he turned up.   BL didn't have to invite him into her home either did she?    He didn't name her, her address wasn't given out.    Why couldn't Brenda have dealt with it?   she believed all she had said so it was all her own opinion and she could have said so.   A neighbour had said she had voiced her opinion in the village shop.

All she would have had to say is 'no comment' and got in the car.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2015, 12:39:15 PM
Sorry?? ... what on earth gives you that idea?   IMO some of them may even be fellow posters here, they abound in all corners of the internet, not in the thousands they would have us believe ... just a rump of sad individuals each one with many faces.

Those people you describe exist on both sides.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: John on March 27, 2015, 01:00:03 PM

BL tweeted Martin Brunt John,   how do you know she didn't agree to see him?   she didn't seem at all surprised when he turned up.   BL didn't have to invite him into her home either did she?    He didn't name her, her address wasn't given out.    Why couldn't Brenda have dealt with it?   she believed all she had said so it was all her own opinion and she could have said so.   A neighbour had said she had voiced her opinion in the village shop.

All she would have had to say is 'no comment' and got in the car.

Why didn't he tweet her back? 

We know from Brunts own testimony to the Coroner's Court that he and his cameraman hung around waiting for her to emerge from her house.   We also know from the Sky footage that Brenda was shocked to find him there confronting her.  After she composed herself she did invite him into her home for a discussion off camera.

The facts stand, Brenda invited him to get in touch but he ignored her.  He then went about creating some sensational TV by doorstepping her completely out of the blue denying her the opportunity to agree to being on camera or a chance to prepare some response.

In my book what he did was LOW, VERY LOW INDEED.

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 01:38:56 PM
Why didn't he tweet her back? 

We know from Brunts own testimony to the Coroner's Court that he and his cameraman hung around waiting for her to emerge from her house.   We also know from the Sky footage that Brenda was shocked to find him there confronting her.  After she composed herself she did invite him into her home for a discussion off camera.

The facts stand, Brenda invited him to get in touch but he ignored her.  He then went about creating some sensational TV by doorstepping her completely out of the blue denying her the opportunity to agree to being on camera or a chance to prepare some response.

In my book what he did was LOW, VERY LOW INDEED.

It wasn't that simple, John.  What Brenda had been doing for that past year was pretty disgusting, especially involving people that she thought were witnesses.  And she had been and Following and Tweeting Martin Brunt.  So what price Freedom of Speech?

I do think that more thought could have been put into his approach, in hindsight.  But some of what is said about The McCanns actually still upsets me, even if only for Innocent until Proven Guilty.
Some of us Supporters do get upset, you know.

Fortunately, my opinions are somewhat curtailed these days, as they should be.  But tis mortal hard sometimes.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 02:31:46 PM

This thread concerns the activities of a deplorable Facebook group ... and there is really quite a lot that can be said about them ... Mrs Leyland can be discussed on the thread set up to do that.

It seems that one of our members is reluctant to take that on board ... I do not wonder why.


Kate threatened with death


Kate McCann received a death threat over the internet, which is being treated with special care by British police, due to the fact that the mother of Maddie, missing child in 2007 in Praia da Luz, Algarve, go run the London Marathon event next month.

According to the English press yesterday, the threat of death to Kate, 45, consists of a profile of the social network Facebook, the web, whose identity remains to be determined.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/kate-ameacada-de-morte.html

Brietta I have told you what happened in relation to the story above. Why are you trying to make more of it than it actually warrants ? Good propoganda ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 02:34:55 PM
Why didn't he tweet her back? 

We know from Brunts own testimony to the Coroner's Court that he and his cameraman hung around waiting for her to emerge from her house.   We also know from the Sky footage that Brenda was shocked to find him there confronting her.  After she composed herself she did invite him into her home for a discussion off camera.

The facts stand, Brenda invited him to get in touch but he ignored her.  He then went about creating some sensational TV by doorstepping her completely out of the blue denying her the opportunity to agree to being on camera or a chance to prepare some response.

In my book what he did was LOW, VERY LOW INDEED.


Why engage with a journalist on line John?     If you are worried that a journalist might turn up at your house then stay away from them.

That's what journalists do,   they want a good story,  I am sure Brenda knew what journalists were like as she wasn't naïve was she?

Brenda Leyland came across as a very strong opinionated woman on twitter who tweeted Martin Brunt,  no one could foresee the consequences of confronting her.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: stephen25000 on March 27, 2015, 02:48:53 PM

Why engage with a journalist on line John?     If you are worried that a journalist might turn up at your house then stay away from them.

That's what journalists do,   they want a good story,  I am sure Brenda knew what journalists were like as she wasn't naïve was she?

Brenda Leyland came across as a very strong opinionated woman on twitter who tweeted Martin Brunt,  no one could foresee the consequences of confronting her.

Rubbish.

How would you like to outed on National TV and in the press, AS A TROLL HOUNDING THE MCCANNS, or for that matter for any other reason ?

Would you enjoy that ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 02:53:23 PM
As William Penn mused "The jealous are troublesome to others, but a torment to themselves"

Don't be that person Alfie  8(8-))
Who on earth do you imagine I am jealous of?  You?  The Stud Muffin??  Is this another example of your self-delusion?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 02:58:20 PM
Seems Brietta and Alfred disagree as to where these Campaigners can be found.
How do you work that one out?  I said I did not specify where they hung out, something you claimed I did, but I never.  Are you trying to incite fisticuffs between me and Brie, or what?  @)(++(*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:00:43 PM
Rubbish.

How would you like to outed on National TV and in the press, AS A TROLL HOUNDING THE MCCANNS, or for that matter for any other reason ?

Would you enjoy that ?

Would you?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 27, 2015, 03:04:00 PM
Sorry?? ... what on earth gives you that idea?   IMO some of them may even be fellow posters here, they abound in all corners of the internet, not in the thousands they would have us believe ... just a rump of sad individuals each one with many faces.

You choose to look only at those. That's your decision.

I very, very much doubt the McCanns give them much thought.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 03:09:53 PM
I won't be as I wouldn't post nasty threats and hound innocent young girls on the internet,   it is not something I would do.


Can I ask you something Faithlilly?    If that girl who was hounded off the internet had committed suicide  how would the people hounding her  have felt?    After all,   no one knows if this girl has mental health issues.

Awful I'm sure but I have seen no remorse from anyone involved in BL's hounding. In fact I believe one rather callous individual actually went to her inquest.

Further this was not simply about some rather silly nonsense on Twitter. This was a woman's reputation being torn to
shreds every fifteen minutes on national TV just because she disbelieved the McCanns and wasn't afraid to say so. Now tell me truthfully Lace do you really think the punishment fitted the crime ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 27, 2015, 03:11:05 PM
Brenda had along history of mental illness...she had tried to commit suicide before...Brunt in no way to blame IMO...
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 27, 2015, 03:12:11 PM
Awful I'm sure but I have seen no remorse from anyone involved in BL's hounding. In fact I believe one rather callous individual actually went to her inquest.

Further this was not simply about some rather silly nonsense on Twitter. This was a woman's reputation being torn to
shreds every fifteen minutes on national TV just because she disbelieved the McCanns and wasn't afraid to say so. Now tell me truthfully Lace do you really think the punishment fitted the crime ?

I don't see Brenda was punished...just exposed for what she was...an online troll
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:13:17 PM
You choose to look only at those. That's your decision.

I very, very much doubt the McCanns give them much thought.

I don't suppose they do now.  Too many lies in the water under the bridge.  One becomes hardened to it eventually.  Although some of it still upsets me from time to time.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 03:14:01 PM
Brietta I have told you what happened in relation to the story above. Why are you trying to make more of it than it actually warrants ? Good propoganda ?

Police have opened an investigation into the threats, which, The Sun says, have been registered as death threats. Scotland Yard have also been notified of the threats and a spokesperson confirmed they too were investigating the posts.

McCann is planning to take part in the marathon to raise money for the charity Missing People and sources close to her say the threats will not dissuade her from competing.

Meanwhile, the McCann family spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "It is a disgrace that people can say such things around an event which is designed to help others. The trouble is that it is very hard to stop these people. They hide away behind their computer screens, blogging away."
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-mother-death-threat-disappearance-facebook-447011

It is my understanding that Ms Basher received a police caution from Devon and Cornwall police as a result of her harmless little joke.
I'm glad you are OK with that.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:15:26 PM
Awful I'm sure but I have seen no remorse from anyone involved in BL's hounding. In fact I believe one rather callous individual actually went to her inquest.

Further this was not simply about some rather silly nonsense on Twitter. This was a woman's reputation being torn to
shreds every fifteen minutes on national TV just because she disbelieved the McCanns and wasn't afraid to say so. Now tell me truthfully Lace do you really think the punishment fitted the crime ?

Brenda Leyland punished herself.  Really sad.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 03:22:58 PM
Rubbish.

How would you like to outed on National TV and in the press, AS A TROLL HOUNDING THE MCCANNS, or for that matter for any other reason ?

Would you enjoy that ?

Why post nasty threats to the McCann's and tweet a journalist Stephen?     
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 03:25:21 PM
Awful I'm sure but I have seen no remorse from anyone involved in BL's hounding. In fact I believe one rather callous individual actually went to her inquest.

Further this was not simply about some rather silly nonsense on Twitter. This was a woman's reputation being torn to
shreds every fifteen minutes on national TV just because she disbelieved the McCanns and wasn't afraid to say so. Now tell me truthfully Lace do you really think the punishment fitted the crime ?
Specifically who amongst the McCann supporters hounded Brenda Leyland to her death, in your view?  Name names and describe what form this hounding took.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lace on March 27, 2015, 03:25:59 PM
Awful I'm sure but I have seen no remorse from anyone involved in BL's hounding. In fact I believe one rather callous individual actually went to her inquest.

Further this was not simply about some rather silly nonsense on Twitter. This was a woman's reputation being torn to
shreds every fifteen minutes on national TV just because she disbelieved the McCanns and wasn't afraid to say so. Now tell me truthfully Lace do you really think the punishment fitted the crime ?

What hounding?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 27, 2015, 03:36:58 PM
I don't suppose they do now.  Too many lies in the water under the bridge.  One becomes hardened to it eventually.  Although some of it still upsets me from time to time.

I'd say you get bored with it, because the ringleaders Sky News (and allies) decided to ignore when they picked on Brenda instead certainly are very boring, ineffectual people.

I'd be considering why the ringleaders are always ignored if I were you.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:39:57 PM
Awful I'm sure but I have seen no remorse from anyone involved in BL's hounding. In fact I believe one rather callous individual actually went to her inquest.

Further this was not simply about some rather silly nonsense on Twitter. This was a woman's reputation being torn to
shreds every fifteen minutes on national TV just because she disbelieved the McCanns and wasn't afraid to say so. Now tell me truthfully Lace do you really think the punishment fitted the crime ?

So going to The Inquest is a sign of hounding.  How does that equate with Sonia Poulton and others of her ilk?

Oh, I know.  They did this in the name of Justice.  One rule for them and another for McCann Supporters.  Same old same old.  Free Speach, but only for them.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Rubbish.

How would you like to outed on National TV and in the press, AS A TROLL HOUNDING THE MCCANNS, or for that matter for any other reason ?

Would you enjoy that ?


Police Scotland are taking a very tough line with internet trolls ... the one charged in this article is a mere amateur in comparison with some of those who attack the McCanns.

This one has I hope been stopped in his tracks ... and if similar action had been taken against those perpetrating the worst offences against the McCanns in the early days ... I do not believe we would be having this conversation now.

I recommend you follow the link to see photographs of the joyous little angel attacked by this vile specimen ... and think on.


 **snip

Last night, Police Scotland said a 19-year-old man had been charged in connection with offensive comments posted online.

A report will be sent to the procurator fiscal and the man will appear at Aberdeen Sheriff Court at a later date.

Chief Inspector Murray Main said “Police Scotland are committed to tackling anti-social behaviour, be it in the street, in a football ground or online on social media sites.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/football-fans-unite-fury-against-5261929


Commenting on another case involving football ...

**snip

Chief Inspector Murray Main said "We will take robust action when it comes to any form of hate crime, whether the comments are said in the street or online."

He added: "I'd ask people to remember, if it is illegal to say it on the street, it is illegal to say it online."
http://news.stv.tv/north/312635-man-charged-over-offensive-tweet-targeted-at-celtic-player-leigh-griffiths/

 
... and the courts are taking a firm line too


Mikaeel Kular Facebook troll jailed for 'vile abuse' about tragic three-year-old
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mikaeel-kular-facebook-troll-jailed-4865443


It is long, long past the time the abuse directed at Madeleine McCann's family was dealt with ... what the hell are Leicestershire Police playing at?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 27, 2015, 03:50:15 PM
So going to The Inquest is a sign of hounding.  How does that equate with Sonia Poulton and others of her ilk?

Oh, I know.  They did this in the name of Justice.  One rule for them and another for McCann Supporters.  Same old same old.  Free Speach, but only for them.

Of course, Elanor.  Plus ca change........
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:51:30 PM
I'd say you get bored with it, because the ringleaders Sky News (and allies) decided to ignore when they picked on Brenda instead certainly are very boring, ineffectual people.

I'd be considering why the ringleaders are always ignored if I were you.

What?  What ringleaders?  Unless you are talking about Brenda Leyland, who was a ringleader and who did turn out to be an ineffectual person, poor soul.

Although you are right to some extent.  I do get bored with the same old same old.  Unfortunately, not often enough.  I still do occasionally get deeply upset by the mindless cruelty.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 27, 2015, 03:55:33 PM
What?  What ringleaders?  Unless you are talking about Brenda Leyland, who was a ringleader and who did turn out to be an ineffectual person, poor soul.

Although you are right to some extent.  I do get bored with the same old same old.  Unfortunately, not often enough.  I still do occasionally get deeply upset by the mindless cruelty.

She was not and never was a ringleader - as was agreed by most reasonable people at the time (before we found at she was dead anyway, at which point some people immediately began seeing the affair through ideological eyes).
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 27, 2015, 03:55:44 PM
What?  What ringleaders?  Unless you are talking about Brenda Leyland, who was a ringleader and who did turn out to be an ineffectual person, poor soul.

Although you are right to some extent.  I do get bored with the same old same old.  Unfortunately, not often enough.  I still do occasionally get deeply upset by the mindless cruelty.

Ring leader of what? I thought she was largely a one-woman campaign.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:57:07 PM
Of course, Elanor.  Plus ca change........

Plus c'est la meme chose.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 03:59:50 PM
She was not and never was a ringleader - as was agreed by most reasonable people at the time (before we found at she was dead anyway, at which point some people immediately began seeing the affair through ideological eyes).

So I am not reasonable?  You could be right about that when it comes to mindless cruelty.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 04:04:49 PM
What?  What ringleaders?  Unless you are talking about Brenda Leyland, who was a ringleader and who did turn out to be an ineffectual person, poor soul.

Although you are right to some extent.  I do get bored with the same old same old.  Unfortunately, not often enough.  I still do occasionally get deeply upset by the mindless cruelty.

I remember vividly the absolute "shock horror" I experienced when I first encountered the activities of these people, and as for anyone 'falling' for the Lizzie Taylor videos ... unbelievable ... I had her sussed not quite immediately, but as soon as I got over my puzzlement.

I don't quite know what type of personalities indulge themselves in such vile nonsense ... but before I encountered them I was a much more innocent person.

I met them in the raw on Yahoo and my disgust for them actually knows no bounds.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Eleanor on March 27, 2015, 04:08:50 PM
However, I am bailing out of this discussion now. 

I am sad that Brenda Leyland felt that she had no one to support her, least of all her own kind.
I would have supported her if I had known of what a distressed state she was in.  But then I don't have to agree with someone to offer them help.  Nor do I have any great desire to change the mind of anyone.  Such a pity that she had no one.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 04:11:20 PM
Police have opened an investigation into the threats, which, The Sun says, have been registered as death threats. Scotland Yard have also been notified of the threats and a spokesperson confirmed they too were investigating the posts.

McCann is planning to take part in the marathon to raise money for the charity Missing People and sources close to her say the threats will not dissuade her from competing.

Meanwhile, the McCann family spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, said: "It is a disgrace that people can say such things around an event which is designed to help others. The trouble is that it is very hard to stop these people. They hide away behind their computer screens, blogging away."
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-mother-death-threat-disappearance-facebook-447011

It is my understanding that Ms Basher received a police caution from Devon and Cornwall police as a result of her harmless little joke.
I'm glad you are OK with that.

Then your understanding is wrong Brietta. Ms Bashier had an amicable chat with one of her local boys in blue, expressed her regret and was told not to do it again.

That you are using the Sun as a source says it all really.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 04:14:04 PM
Then your understanding is wrong Brietta. Ms Bashier had an amicable chat with one of her local boys in blue, expressed her regret and was told not to do it again.

That you are using the Sun as a source says it all really.

According to who?


Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 27, 2015, 04:18:01 PM
Ring leader of what? I thought she was largely a one-woman campaign.

She was! If however one portrays her as the spider at the centre of a coordinated web of vicious internet "trolls" then one can justify doing or saying anything about her as she has then been "dehumanised". Page one of the manual of tactics for....................... well join up the dots.
Will this post last longer that about 2 nanoseconds one asks oneself  8(>((
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
So going to The Inquest is a sign of hounding.  How does that equate with Sonia Poulton and others of her ilk?

Oh, I know.  They did this in the name of Justice.  One rule for them and another for McCann Supporters.  Same old same old.  Free Speach, but only for them.

Did Sonia play a part in BL's demise then ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 27, 2015, 04:21:46 PM
I remember vividly the absolute "shock horror" I experienced when I first encountered the activities of these people, and as for anyone 'falling' for the Lizzie Taylor videos ... unbelievable ... I had her sussed not quite immediately, but as soon as I got over my puzzlement.

I don't quite know what type of personalities indulge themselves in such vile nonsense ... but before I encountered them I was a much more innocent person.

I met them in the raw on Yahoo and my disgust for them actually knows no bounds.

You're talking about a much larger phenomenon there than just the twitter-facebook hardcore.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 04:23:15 PM
According to who?

Says me.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 04:32:35 PM
I didn't think it was much worse than the thinly disguised biblical quote about pricks someone used a while ago.

The problem is everyone's a critic Alice  8(0(*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: ferryman on March 27, 2015, 04:38:39 PM
Did Sonia play a part in BL's demise then ?

I think BL's conscience drove BL's unquestionably tragic demise
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 04:45:50 PM
Says me.
ah, well given a choice between believing you and believing the Sun newspaper, I'm with Rupert every time ;-)
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 04:51:04 PM
Then your understanding is wrong Brietta. Ms Bashier had an amicable chat with one of her local boys in blue, expressed her regret and was told not to do it again.

That you are using the Sun as a source says it all really.

I know Sheila Basher received a police caution ... if you wish to represent that as a cosy little chat that is entirely up to you.

She failed to get the same support from the page owner ... funny that.


**snip

Other disgusting messages included the suggestion that people lining the streets to watch the event should wear masks depicting Madeleine's face.

The owner of the page claimed to be allowing the messages to show how 'depraved' posters were. The anonymous Facebook user wrote: "Watching over the diseased and perverted minds of those who troll and attack the family of missing Madeleine McCann, I in no way endorse what these vile people are doing and saying. I am showing how depraved they are."

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2013/03/18/kate-mccann-abused-online-by-vile-internet-trolls-missing-madeleine-mccann/

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 05:01:28 PM
You're talking about a much larger phenomenon there than just the twitter-facebook hardcore.

I believe that if a firmer line had been taken with vicious trolls right at the start of this phenomenon we would not now be in such dire straights with individuals assuming the right to systematically torture and abuse victims with impunity.

Individual idiots targeting high profile tragedies are easily dealt with as Police Scotland are showing now and have been for some time ... it is a start.

Common decency dictates that nearly eight years of sustained, organised abuse of individuals has no place in a civilsed society.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: DCI on March 27, 2015, 05:14:43 PM
I know Sheila Basher received a police caution ... if you wish to represent that as a cosy little chat that is entirely up to you.

She failed to get the same support from the page owner ... funny that.


**snip

Other disgusting messages included the suggestion that people lining the streets to watch the event should wear masks depicting Madeleine's face.

The owner of the page claimed to be allowing the messages to show how 'depraved' posters were. The anonymous Facebook user wrote: "Watching over the diseased and perverted minds of those who troll and attack the family of missing Madeleine McCann, I in no way endorse what these vile people are doing and saying. I am showing how depraved they are."

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2013/03/18/kate-mccann-abused-online-by-vile-internet-trolls-missing-madeleine-mccann/ (http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2013/03/18/kate-mccann-abused-online-by-vile-internet-trolls-missing-madeleine-mccann/)


Yes, Even HideHo, give her her due, made her apologise, on Facebook.


Sheila Basher
Sunday, 17 March 2013 at 13:28
I apologise to Kate Mccan for My stupid comment I posted on this group about getting a gun and shooting Her ,It was a silly comment not meant with malice ,And I am positive People Who know Me understand it was a comment posted in the haste of the moment and would not be a threat !!And after it was posted I realised it was a really dreadful thing to say !! And once again I openly apologise to Kate Macann!!
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 05:33:21 PM

Yes, Even HideHo, give her her due, made her apologise, on Facebook.


Sheila Basher
Sunday, 17 March 2013 at 13:28
I apologise to Kate Mccan for My stupid comment I posted on this group about getting a gun and shooting Her ,It was a silly comment not meant with malice ,And I am positive People Who know Me understand it was a comment posted in the haste of the moment and would not be a threat !!And after it was posted I realised it was a really dreadful thing to say !! And once again I openly apologise to Kate Macann!!
I don't remember a "Justice For Sheila" campaign - was there one?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 06:37:14 PM
ah, well given a choice between believing you and believing the Sun newspaper, I'm with Rupert every time ;-)

Fair enough. It wouldn't be the truth though.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 06:41:56 PM
I know Sheila Basher received a police caution ... if you wish to represent that as a cosy little chat that is entirely up to you.

She failed to get the same support from the page owner ... funny that.


**snip

Other disgusting messages included the suggestion that people lining the streets to watch the event should wear masks depicting Madeleine's face.

The owner of the page claimed to be allowing the messages to show how 'depraved' posters were. The anonymous Facebook user wrote: "Watching over the diseased and perverted minds of those who troll and attack the family of missing Madeleine McCann, I in no way endorse what these vile people are doing and saying. I am showing how depraved they are."

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2013/03/18/kate-mccann-abused-online-by-vile-internet-trolls-missing-madeleine-mccann/

You don't KNOW Brietta you have been told. I presume it was *cough* before your time so what you have heard is merely hearsay.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 06:43:56 PM

Yes, Even HideHo, give her her due, made her apologise, on Facebook.


Sheila Basher
Sunday, 17 March 2013 at 13:28
I apologise to Kate Mccan for My stupid comment I posted on this group about getting a gun and shooting Her ,It was a silly comment not meant with malice ,And I am positive People Who know Me understand it was a comment posted in the haste of the moment and would not be a threat !!And after it was posted I realised it was a really dreadful thing to say !! And once again I openly apologise to Kate Macann!!

Shiela wasn't 'made' to do anything she apologised willingly.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 06:44:36 PM
I don't remember a "Justice For Sheila" campaign - was there one?

No because fortunately she's still alive.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: carlymichelle on March 27, 2015, 06:46:10 PM
Why didn't he tweet her back? 

We know from Brunts own testimony to the Coroner's Court that he and his cameraman hung around waiting for her to emerge from her house.   We also know from the Sky footage that Brenda was shocked to find him there confronting her.  After she composed herself she did invite him into her home for a discussion off camera.

The facts stand, Brenda invited him to get in touch but he ignored her.  He then went about creating some sensational TV by doorstepping her completely out of the blue denying her the opportunity to agree to being on camera or a chance to prepare some response.

In my book what he did was LOW, VERY LOW INDEED.

i agree and i  think mcann supporters who  still  bash her  even though she is  dead    are VERY VERY low indeed   what do they   want blood??
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 06:55:53 PM
No because fortunately she's still alive.
Surely that's beside the point?  Or are you of the opinion that it's OK to highlight an individual's anti-social behaviour in the media unless that person then goes on to kill themselves, at which point it then becomes not OK?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 06:59:57 PM
You don't KNOW Brietta you have been told. I presume it was *cough* before your time so what you have heard is merely hearsay.

You really will have to do something about that ***cough*** if left unattended it can develop into all sorts of really nasty complications.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 07:03:36 PM
You really will have to do something about that ***cough*** if left unattended it can develop into all sorts of really nasty complications.
It's caused be *Irony Klaxon* overuse.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: DCI on March 27, 2015, 07:07:54 PM
Shiela wasn't 'made' to do anything she apologised willingly.

Says you. But,

After Basher’s comment was picked up by the UK media her threat was finally deleted from Facebook and group administrator known as ‘Hi-De-Ho’, left Basher in no doubt; apologize publicly for that or you are banned from the group for jeopardizing our operation.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 27, 2015, 07:12:11 PM
i agree and i  think mcann supporters who  still  bash her  even though she is  dead    are VERY VERY low indeed   what do they   want blood??

If I continue to bash Brenda...as you put it...and you continue to be appalled...it might just dawn on you and others how appalling your treatment of the McCanns has been...so...Brenda brought all her troubles onto herself with her vile trolling of the McCanns
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: ferryman on March 27, 2015, 07:26:18 PM
Did Sonia play a part in BL's demise then ?

The myopia is surprising that doesn't see the connection between whatever drove BL to her untimely (self-inflicted!) demise and the pressures heaped on the McCanns as innocent victims of an abductor's act in addition to the abuse heaped upon them from many quarters of the internet
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2015, 08:10:34 PM
The myopia is surprising that doesn't see the connection between whatever drove BL to her untimely (self-inflicted!) demise and the pressures heaped on the McCanns as innocent victims of an abductor's act in addition to the abuse heaped upon them from many quarters of the internet

Just to be factual; As the last people to see the child the McCanns were quite properly investigated.  No evidence of the McCanns involvement was found. No evidence of an abduction was found. No evidence that the child wandered away was found. No evidence of Robert Murat's involvement was found. Hence the archiving of the investigation.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 08:33:40 PM
Says you. But,

After Basher’s comment was picked up by the UK media her threat was finally deleted from Facebook and group administrator known as ‘Hi-De-Ho’, left Basher in no doubt; apologize publicly for that or you are banned from the group for jeopardizing our operation.

Tell me DCI why did the tweeter who screencapped Shiela's comment not simply tell the police about it instead of tweeting it to a tabloid journalist ? Was the fact that the twins may see the out of context comment on the front page of some tatty newspaper and fear for their parents safety ever considered ?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 27, 2015, 09:20:19 PM
Just to be factual; As the last people to see the child the McCanns were quite properly investigated.  No evidence of the McCanns involvement was found. No evidence of an abduction was found. No evidence that the child wandered away was found. No evidence of Robert Murat's involvement was found. Hence the archiving of the investigation.
Gosh you can't stay that! Are you trying to incite a riot  8(0(*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2015, 09:49:29 PM
Gosh you can't stay that! Are you trying to incite a riot  8(0(*

Why would anyone disagree? I am happy to be corrected if anyone knows of any facts which do so.  8)-)))
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 09:58:02 PM

As well as the 'still alive' option included the poll conducted by the FB group regarding possible burial sites for Madeleine McCann is the option that “both parents ate her”.

I don't really know what adjective fits that "sick"? or maybe "insane"?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 27, 2015, 10:02:55 PM
As well as the 'still alive' option included the poll conducted by the FB group regarding possible burial sites for Madeleine McCann is the option that “both parents ate her”.

I don't really know what adjective fits that "sick"? or maybe "insane"?

Strawman yet again.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 27, 2015, 10:08:21 PM
As well as the 'still alive' option included the poll conducted by the FB group regarding possible burial sites for Madeleine McCann is the option that “both parents ate her”.

I don't really know what adjective fits that "sick"? or maybe "insane"?
There probably are people who believe this.  I recently saw a post somewhere that had a photo composite showing Fred and Rosemary West, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, and Kate and Gerry McCann all in the same picture.  I mean, that's rational isn't it.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 27, 2015, 10:11:43 PM
Just to be factual; As the last people to see the child the McCanns were quite properly investigated.  No evidence of the McCanns involvement was found. No evidence of an abduction was found. No evidence that the child wandered away was found. No evidence of Robert Murat's involvement was found. Hence the archiving of the investigation.

Absolutely correct...but why did the Portuguese re open the case
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 10:12:06 PM
There probably are people who believe this.  I recently saw a post somewhere that had a photo composite showing Fred and Rosemary West, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, and Kate and Gerry McCann all in the same picture.  I mean, that's rational isn't it.

Unbeleeeevable!  What happened to the Philpotts?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 27, 2015, 10:13:05 PM
There probably are people who believe this.  I recently saw a post somewhere that had a photo composite showing Fred and Rosemary West, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, and Kate and Gerry McCann all in the same picture.  I mean, that's rational isn't it.

It is likely it will be a Turner Prize entry.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 27, 2015, 10:18:20 PM
Just to be factual; As the last people to see the child the McCanns were quite properly investigated.  No evidence of the McCanns involvement was found. No evidence of an abduction was found. No evidence that the child wandered away was found. No evidence of Robert Murat's involvement was found. Hence the archiving of the investigation.

It makes you wonder why being a doubter is so strange.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 10:21:10 PM
Strawman yet again.

What I find interesting about the two posts I have made on this particular poll about where Madeleine McCann may be buried ...
(a)  she is alive
(b) her parents ate her  ... is that no-one has asked me for a cite.

I think that rather goes to indicate that mine is no "straw man" argument.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 27, 2015, 10:27:49 PM
What I find interesting about the two posts I have made on this particular poll about where Madeleine McCann may be buried ...
(a)  she is alive
(b) her parents ate her  ... is that no-one has asked me for a cite.

I think that rather goes to indicate that mine is no "straw man" argument.

You are arguing against positions that no one here holds. Strawman.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: sadie on March 27, 2015, 10:53:53 PM
You are arguing against positions that no one here holds. Strawman.
How I wish that I could tell you what I KNOW.

You wouldn't be so cocky then Slarti
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
It makes you wonder why being a doubter is so strange.

Those who have doubts have knowledge. They have read the available evidence and can quote it. Those who believe.... believe. As there is no evidence to support their belief they attack the doubter's intelligence, accuse them of all sorts of nasty motives and of being part of some vile group or other. When that doesn't work they attack the evidence as being mistranslated etc. That's how it looks to me anyway.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: misty on March 27, 2015, 11:23:20 PM
Those who have doubts have knowledge. They have read the available evidence and can quote it. Those who believe.... believe. As there is no evidence to support their belief they attack the doubter's intelligence, accuse them of all sorts of nasty motives and of being part of some vile group or other. When that doesn't work they attack the evidence as being mistranslated etc. That's how it looks to me anyway.

There are certain things "believers" are not permitted to post or discuss here or elsewhere. The only evidence the sceptics have is what the Portuguese allowed the people to have.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 27, 2015, 11:34:21 PM
There are certain things "believers" are not permitted to post or discuss here or elsewhere. The only evidence the sceptics have is what the Portuguese allowed the people to have.

Special knowledge eh? I've seen that claimed before. You don't need to discuss the case then, just sit back and smile smugly.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: misty on March 27, 2015, 11:41:27 PM
Special knowledge eh? I've seen that claimed before. You don't need to discuss the case then, just sit back and smile smugly.

Not "special" knowledge. no. It's just that bashing anyone other than the Tapas 9 or "Team McCann" is deemed libellous.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2015, 11:45:21 PM
You are arguing against positions that no one here holds. Strawman.

How can you be absolutely sure of that?

I'm interested in why you feel the need to name call ... not offended, just interested ... as I have always thought it a rather juvenile thing to do.  But I suppose you have your reasons.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 27, 2015, 11:46:15 PM
Those who have doubts have knowledge. They have read the available evidence and can quote it. Those who believe.... believe. As there is no evidence to support their belief they attack the doubter's intelligence, accuse them of all sorts of nasty motives and of being part of some vile group or other. When that doesn't work they attack the evidence as being mistranslated etc. That's how it looks to me anyway.

No evidence of involvement of the McCanns was found...what are your doubts based on..certainly can't be the evidence
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 12:04:11 AM
Those who have doubts have knowledge. They have read the available evidence and can quote it. Those who believe.... believe. As there is no evidence to support their belief they attack the doubter's intelligence, accuse them of all sorts of nasty motives and of being part of some vile group or other. When that doesn't work they attack the evidence as being mistranslated etc. That's how it looks to me anyway.

I suppose it must be a blessed thing to be granted the gift of faith but I think one must first of all consider the reality of the situation as we know it to be.

In the real world …
where is the evidence that Madeleine McCann's parents had any involvement in her disappearance?
 … simply does not exist.

No blood

No DNA

No body fluids

No chunks of hair

Cadaver dog 'alerts' totally misinterpreted, exaggerated and unsupported by forensics

I am intrigued by the 'doubters' need to descend into insult and innuendo quite simply because they have a paucity of anything approaching fact with which to present their case ... which is why we see the constant repetition of the transference of blame from the perpetrator/s of the crime to the victims of the crime.  Odd to say the least.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2015, 12:24:06 AM
I suppose it must be a blessed thing to be granted the gift of faith but I think one must first of all consider the reality of the situation as we know it to be.

In the real world …
where is the evidence that Madeleine McCann's parents had any involvement in her disappearance?
 … simply does not exist.

No blood

No DNA

No body fluids

No chunks of hair

Cadaver dog 'alerts' totally misinterpreted, exaggerated and unsupported by forensics

I am intrigued by the 'doubters' need to descend into insult and innuendo quite simply because they have a paucity of anything approaching fact with which to present their case ... which is why we see the constant repetition of the transference of blame from the perpetrator/s of the crime to the victims of the crime.  Odd to say the least.

No evidence of abduction, waking and wandering or parental involvement. You choose to believe one of the possibilities I don't. I don't insult anyone and I haven't accused anyone. I accept that there are people on both sides of the debate who behave badly, you concentrate only on those who have doubts and behave badly. According to you they are;

'sad individuals, intellectually challenged, nasty, pitiless, vile' they  'spread lies and vile nonsense'.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 12:29:18 AM
No evidence of abduction, waking and wandering or parental involvement. You choose to believe one of the possibilities I don't. I don't insult anyone and I haven't accused anyone. I accept that there are people on both sides of the debate who behave badly, you concentrate only on those who have doubts and behave badly. According to you they are;

'sad individuals, intellectually challenged, nasty, pitiless, vile' they  'spread lies and vile nonsense'.

You have stated yourself there is no evidence against the McCanns....on what do you base your doubts...you have no answer
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 12:35:29 AM
No evidence of abduction, waking and wandering or parental involvement. You choose to believe one of the possibilities I don't. I don't insult anyone and I haven't accused anyone. I accept that there are people on both sides of the debate who behave badly, you concentrate only on those who have doubts and behave badly. According to you they are;

'sad individuals, intellectually challenged, nasty, pitiless, vile' they  'spread lies and vile nonsense'.
no evidence against the McCanns...what right do you or anyone have to suggest they are complicit in any crime..none...you are a disgrace
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 28, 2015, 12:36:15 AM
Those who have doubts have knowledge. They have read the available evidence and can quote it. Those who believe.... believe. As there is no evidence to support their belief they attack the doubter's intelligence, accuse them of all sorts of nasty motives and of being part of some vile group or other. When that doesn't work they attack the evidence as being mistranslated etc. That's how it looks to me anyway.

I have to disagree with you here G-Unit.  IMO 'doubters have indeed read the available evidence - but only believe the parts which fit in with their doubts.    Those parts are set in stone as the truth and quickly held up as indisputable evidence.     But anything which doesn't suit their beliefs is just as quickly dismissed as 'lies' - and we are reminded that 'we only have their word for it''   

Fortunately this is not the way professional policemen do things.   Thank goodness.

I have no problem at all with people like yourself who IMO have genuine doubts- and are not sceptics simply because they can't stand the McCanns and desperately want them to be guilty for no other reason than they hate them - for whatever reason - of which IMO there are many.    None of them valid.

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 28, 2015, 12:49:32 AM
no evidence against the McCanns...what right do you or anyone have to suggest they are complicit in any crime..none...you are a disgrace

When it's just seven months since a media-trumpeted book was published that contained no more evidence essentially than we knew in the first few weeks, you can understand why people still wonder.

Until there's more for writers to say I'd save your breath. How many times can you keep saying the same things over and over again?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2015, 12:55:39 AM
I have to disagree with you here G-Unit.  IMO 'doubters have indeed read the available evidence - but only believe the parts which fit in with their doubts.    Those parts are set in stone as the truth and quickly held us as indisputable evidence.     But anything which doesn't suit their beliefs is just as quickly dismissed as 'lies' - and we are reminded that 'we only have their word for it''   

Fortunately this is not the way professional policemen do things.   Thank goodness.

I have no problem at all with people like yourself who IMO have genuine doubts- and are not sceptics simply because they can't stand the McCanns and desperately want them to be guilty for no other reason than they hate them - for whatever reason - of which IMO there are many

Thank you for that. I have no problem with anyone who has a different view than mine either, provided they respect that my opinion is as valid as theirs. After all, neither opinion can be 'proved' to be correct. With time the truth may be revealed; let's hope so.  ?{)(**
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 28, 2015, 12:57:16 AM
When it's just seven months since a media-trumpeted book was published that contained no more evidence essentially than we knew in the first few weeks, you can understand why people still wonder.

Until there's more for writers to say I'd save your breath. How many times can you keep saying the same things over and over again?

I think sceptics were furious about the book because it didn't include any of the hundreds of myths, lies and disinformation which they so desperately want to be true - but simply are not.   
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2015, 01:08:23 AM
When it's just seven months since a media-trumpeted book was published that contained no more evidence essentially than we knew in the first few weeks, you can understand why people still wonder.

Until there's more for writers to say I'd save your breath. How many times can you keep saying the same things over and over again?

Half price for the hardback now on Amazon.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 28, 2015, 01:09:44 AM
I think sceptics were furious about the book because it didn't include any of the hundreds of myths, lies and disinformation which they so desperately want to be true - but simply are not.   

Maybe but they were also inviting controversy really. They were just a tiny bit provocative.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 28, 2015, 01:13:54 AM
Half price for the hardback now on Amazon.

It was when they published it 8(>(( (Still the same price I think?)

(edit: It was £10 then)
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2015, 01:25:03 AM
It was when they published it 8(>(( (Still the same price I think?)

I wonder if anyone's read it? I haven't read any of them.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 01:25:55 AM
No evidence of abduction, waking and wandering or parental involvement. You choose to believe one of the possibilities I don't. I don't insult anyone and I haven't accused anyone. I accept that there are people on both sides of the debate who behave badly, you concentrate only on those who have doubts and behave badly. According to you they are;

'sad individuals, intellectually challenged, nasty, pitiless, vile' they  'spread lies and vile nonsense'.

Madeleine McCann went missing from the apartment no-one has seen her since.

If there had been evidence to implicate her parents in her disappearance they would have been charged with the offence accordingly. 

There is no evidence to accuse Madeleine's parents ... there is evidence to the condition of the apartment when the alarm was raised ... there is witness evidence regarding individuals seen around the apartment in the run up to Madeleine going missing ... there is evidence of break ins.

All in all I think the assumption that Madeleine McCann was abducted is a logical one ... and the PJ and SY appear to concur.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 28, 2015, 01:36:27 AM
I wonder if anyone's read it? I haven't read any of them.

I've read it.   It's a summation of the facts and only the facts - and leaves out the myths, disinformation and lies which have muddied the waters of this case since Amaral first used the Portuguese media to aid and abet him in his quest to nail the parents.    And why would he do that ? well  IMO probably because it worked a treat in the Cipriano case.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 28, 2015, 01:40:31 AM
I wonder if anyone's read it? I haven't read any of them.

Think I've read everything 8)--)) But it's true you haven't missed much by not doing.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Lyall on March 28, 2015, 01:58:18 AM
I've read it.   It's a summation of the facts and only the facts - and leaves out the myths, disinformation and lies which have muddied the waters of this case since Amaral first used the Portuguese media to aid and abet him in his quest to nail the parents.    And why would he do that ? well  IMO probably because it worked a treat in the Cipriano case.

It's clever but even clever writers can't hide that basically there is nothing they can say with certainty. It's just a collection of possibilities, but ones that they don't analyse (whereas they do analyse the information they wish to dismiss).
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 01:59:59 AM
Have the 'doubters' never wondered why the McCanns didn't just wait a respectable interval then quietly take themselves home and Madeleine soon forgotten.

Hardly typical of perpetrators to keep their missing daughter and as a result themselves firmly in the public spotlight. 

How many criminals do the 'doubters' know of who have dedicated their lives to the cause of having the investigation into their crime reopened.

Why do the people allegedly demanding "Justice for Maddie" equate that with grudging every brass farthing spent on the only vehicle ever likely to see Justice enacted. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 07:23:38 AM
Thank you for that. I have no problem with anyone who has a different view than mine either, provided they respect that my opinion is as valid as theirs. After all, neither opinion can be 'proved' to be correct. With time the truth may be revealed; let's hope so.  ?{)(**

It isn't as valid.  What  opinion do you have..accident and cover up? That scenario is basically impossible.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 28, 2015, 07:35:47 AM
How I wish that I could tell you what I KNOW.

You wouldn't be so cocky then Slarti

I would probably just  *&*%£
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 28, 2015, 07:40:22 AM
How can you be absolutely sure of that?

I'm interested in why you feel the need to name call ... not offended, just interested ... as I have always thought it a rather juvenile thing to do.  But I suppose you have your reasons.

I am not name calling? You are implying that all doubters contemplate that amongst other things they may have eaten Madeleine, which according to your logic puts all doubters in an indefensible position.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 09:06:45 AM
I am not name calling? You are implying that all doubters contemplate that amongst other things they may have eaten Madeleine, which according to your logic puts all doubters in an indefensible position.

straw man arguement (sic)

A locical (sic) fallacy in which the arguementative (sic) point is made into a caracature (sic) of it's original point. Extremely effective because it's not based on facts, but lies and assumptions. The burden of proof then lies in the defense, (sic) not the offense. (sic) Especially effective when the defense isn't allowed to offer objection. Popularized by right wing talk radio hosts Rush and Hannity.

Step one: Build the straw man. Ignore facts and make outlandish lies/slander.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=straw+man+arguement

In your use of the term **straw man** in relation to my posts either you had no idea of the meaning or you knew that it fitted the terms above.  So what is it??

In either case ... a very lazy way to criticise and imply that I am posting lies. You know and I know that what I have posted is sadly, very true ... and it is not even skimming the surface of the outrages perpetrated against the McCann family and Madeleine herself which could not be discussed on this forum.

Perhaps when you deem it necessary to "strawman" my posts ... I should respond with "photo shop".
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 28, 2015, 10:33:36 AM
straw man arguement (sic)

A locical (sic) fallacy in which the arguementative (sic) point is made into a caracature (sic) of it's original point. Extremely effective because it's not based on facts, but lies and assumptions. The burden of proof then lies in the defense, (sic) not the offense. (sic) Especially effective when the defense isn't allowed to offer objection. Popularized by right wing talk radio hosts Rush and Hannity.

Step one: Build the straw man. Ignore facts and make outlandish lies/slander.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=straw+man+arguement

In your use of the term **straw man** in relation to my posts either you had no idea of the meaning or you knew that it fitted the terms above.  So what is it??

In either case ... a very lazy way to criticise and imply that I am posting lies. You know and I know that what I have posted is sadly, very true ... and it is not even skimming the surface of the outrages perpetrated against the McCann family and Madeleine herself which could not be discussed on this forum.

Perhaps when you deem it necessary to "strawman" my posts ... I should respond with "photo shop".

It's a combination of Strawman and Association Fallacy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy)
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 10:55:41 AM
It's a combination of Strawman and Association Fallacy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy)

Don't name call.  If you are saying I have posted things that these people are innocent of ... say it and then back up your assertion.

Your problem is that you know perfectly well I have not posted even one iota of of the bile that these people do, the worst excesses of which are unrepeatable in decent society.

Very good of you to leap to their defence though.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 11:22:53 AM
It's a combination of Strawman and Association Fallacy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy)

OK here is your first assignment ... I'm going to ask why Lizzie Taylor's FB page chose to attack Madeleine's FB page? ... are you going to "Strawman and Association Fallacy" me in response?

Seems they may have been jealous of the number of 'likes' it had received particularly as no-one seemed to 'like' them very much at all.
Not very adult behaviour, but there you go.


Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2015, 11:25:37 AM
Have the 'doubters' never wondered why the McCanns didn't just wait a respectable interval then quietly take themselves home and Madeleine soon forgotten.

Hardly typical of perpetrators to keep their missing daughter and as a result themselves firmly in the public spotlight. 

Some say that it's quite safe to ask people to look for something that you know can't be found.

How many criminals do the 'doubters' know of who have dedicated their lives to the cause of having the investigation into their crime reopened.

Not investigation, review.

Why do the people allegedly demanding "Justice for Maddie" equate that with grudging every brass farthing spent on the only vehicle ever likely to see Justice enacted.
Perhaps they don't think Scotland Yard are the cream of the crop. Perhaps they think Scotland Yard can be told what to do. Perhaps they are critical of the apparently narrow remit of Operation Grange.

My answers in blue.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 28, 2015, 11:39:01 AM
Man I thought I had awoken sober but clearly not. I thought I read above about one facebook page attacking another facebook page. Time for a hair of the dog (god don't mention dogs).
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 28, 2015, 11:42:11 AM
It intrigues me that people seem to actively seek out these 'offensive' pages in order to be able to express their outrage  ?{)(**
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 11:46:27 AM
Man I thought I had awoken sober but clearly not. I thought I read above about one facebook page attacking another facebook page. Time for a hair of the dog (god don't mention dogs).

Have one for me and if your comment precipitates another dog thread ... I will scream.  Don't take that as a threat, it is definitely a promise.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 11:51:25 AM
It intrigues me that people seem to actively seek out these 'offensive' pages in order to be able to express their outrage  ?{)(**

I'm more intrigued by the fact that people continue to write them, and believe me the choice of material to enable expressions of outrage is absolutely limitless and easy to access ... which would appear to be the name of the game ... and sometimes leaves one with intriguing glimpses of communications not in the public domain.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 28, 2015, 11:54:23 AM
It might be easy to access, but only if you actively seek it. I have never accessed a facebook or twitter page so have not seen any of this.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: slartibartfast on March 28, 2015, 12:13:23 PM
Don't name call.  If you are saying I have posted things that these people are innocent of ... say it and then back up your assertion.

Your problem is that you know perfectly well I have not posted even one iota of of the bile that these people do, the worst excesses of which are unrepeatable in decent society.

Very good of you to leap to their defence though.

Whoosh.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 12:18:03 PM
It might be easy to access, but only if you actively seek it. I have never accessed a facebook or twitter page so have not seen any of this.

Beg pardon??

In real terms I am relatively new to this having only taken an interest at the time of the re-opening of Madeleine's case.

I can assure you that the very first materials I encountered when trying to get information on the case were materials of this type.
Trying to access information untainted by the bias and lies common sense indicated them to be was very, very difficult indeed because of the ubiquitous nature of the beast.

Lizzie Taylor at that time had cornered the market in video exploitation making it very hard indeed to get access to videos not tainted by 'inspirational' editing.

So in effect, I was looking at something with fresh eyes ... and I didn't like one little bit what I was seeing.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 28, 2015, 12:22:03 PM
Beg pardon??

In real terms I am relatively new to this having only taken an interest at the time of the re-opening of Madeleine's case.

I can assure you that the very first materials I encountered when trying to get information on the case were materials of this type.
Trying to access information untainted by the bias and lies common sense indicated them to be was very, very difficult indeed because of the ubiquitous nature of the beast.

Lizzie Taylor at that time had cornered the market in video exploitation making it very hard indeed to get access to videos not tainted by 'inspirational' editing.

So in effect, I was looking at something with fresh eyes ... and I didn't like one little bit what I was seeing.

Clearly you are a true enthusiast 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 12:24:48 PM
Beg pardon??

In real terms I am relatively new to this having only taken an interest at the time of the re-opening of Madeleine's case.

I can assure you that the very first materials I encountered when trying to get information on the case were materials of this type.
Trying to access information untainted by the bias and lies common sense indicated them to be was very, very difficult indeed because of the ubiquitous nature of the beast.

Lizzie Taylor at that time had cornered the market in video exploitation making it very hard indeed to get access to videos not tainted by 'inspirational' editing.

So in effect, I was looking at something with fresh eyes ... and I didn't like one little bit what I was seeing.

It would seem HideHo is recording over 3k views of her videos every day so I can see why you and the rest of the faithful are worried.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 12:32:20 PM
It would seem HideHo is recording over 3k views of her videos every day so I can see why you and the rest of the faithful are worried.

why should anyone be worried
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 03:43:36 PM
Clearly you are a true enthusiast

A bit like everyone else posting here ... you included.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 03:45:05 PM
It would seem HideHo is recording over 3k views of her videos every day so I can see why you and the rest of the faithful are worried.

Wow! ... she must be coining it in.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 04:04:52 PM
Wow! ... she must be coining it in.

Don't know about that but she is certainly spreading her message.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 04:48:04 PM
Don't know about that but she is certainly spreading her message.

spreading her lies would be more accurate ...but it is of no importance...and anyone who thinks it is is deluded
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 04:51:25 PM
So Hi De Ho now has advertising on her videos...so she is personally making money out of Maddie's disappearance
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 28, 2015, 04:53:38 PM
So Hi De Ho now has advertising on her videos...so she is personally making money out of Maddie's disappearance

Is that a problem?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 04:59:08 PM
Is that a problem?
It is to me
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: jassi on March 28, 2015, 05:01:53 PM
Well, what can I say - other than Tough.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 05:30:44 PM
Well, what can I say - other than Tough.

One word doesn't do it for me ... I can think of lots ... but I'll stick to -- mendacious and avarice.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 05:42:29 PM
One word doesn't do it for me ... I can think of lots ... but I'll stick to -- mendacious and avarice.

Then she's in good company with regard to this case.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 28, 2015, 05:48:52 PM
Wow! ... she must be coining it in.
3000 visits per video per day?!  That's over a million hits per video per year, x how many videos?  Dozens??  Well let's hope she's making enough to cover her legal expenses, that's a ten-ton tuckload of libel she's responsible for!
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 28, 2015, 05:53:39 PM
Perhaps Faithlilly could highlight which of these videos is receiving 3000 views per day? 

https://www.youtube.com/user/HiDeHo4/videos
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 05:54:39 PM
3000 visits per video per day?!  That's over a million hits per video per year, x how many videos?  Dozens??  Well let's hope she's making enough to cover her legal expenses, that's a ten-ton tuckload of libel she's responsible for!

As she's based in Canada I'm not sure how successful suing her would be.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 05:55:16 PM
Perhaps Faithlilly could highlight which of these videos is receiving 3000 views per day? 

https://www.youtube.com/user/HiDeHo4/videos

No idea Alfie.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 28, 2015, 05:57:25 PM
No idea Alfie.
Well let me tell you: not one of them, so whoever told you that they were receiving 3000 visits per day was talking out of their rear orifice.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2015, 06:00:49 PM
Then she's in good company with regard to this case.

I wouldn't call the company "good" ... "incompetent" is the only adjective I can come up with that the mods will allow everything else is too rude; but when you get your literary ideas from your best mate,Paulo Pereira Cristovão what would one expect?
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 28, 2015, 06:03:12 PM
As she's based in Canada I'm not sure how successful suing her would be.
Do they have Sky News in Canada?  Maybe they'd like to do a feature on her strange business sideline.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 06:03:40 PM
Well let me tell you: not one of them, so whoever told you that they were receiving 3000 visits per day was talking out of their rear orifice.

The number relates to the views per day of all of her videos.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Mr Gray on March 28, 2015, 06:06:25 PM
What is significant is that when she was a member here she was unable to defend her videos from accusations of blatant lying
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 06:09:09 PM
Do they have Sky News in Canada?  Maybe they'd like to do a feature on her strange business sideline.

Tell you what Alfie here's an idea. When you post, make sure your comment has a relevant point. It makes it so much more intersting for the reader  8(0(*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 28, 2015, 06:12:06 PM
3000 visits per video per day?!  That's over a million hits per video per year, x how many videos?  Dozens??  Well let's hope she's making enough to cover her legal expenses, that's a ten-ton tuckload of libel she's responsible for!

Quite a small truck then or a rather large lady.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Benice on March 28, 2015, 06:15:08 PM
What is significant is that when she was a member here she was unable to defend her videos from accusations of blatant lying

Indeed -- didn't she scarper - never to be seen here again?   That tells you everything you need to know about her videos imo.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 28, 2015, 06:18:20 PM
The number relates to the views per day of all of her videos.
Her most popular videos not the ones she has made but the ones she has copied off the telly and posted.  The one with the largest number of views (480k) is something called the Ken and Barbie killers.  Her own little creations have on average been viewed at most a few thousand times - average views across her entire back catalogue works out at 13 views per day. She's a prolific propagandist that is true, but compared to some of the more successful youtubers not a very popular one.  Never mind, as long as she's making a few quid out of it, I'm sure she's more than happy. 
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 06:22:34 PM
Her most popular videos not the ones she has made but the ones she has copied off the telly and posted.  The one with the largest number of views (480k) is something called the Ken and Barbie killers.  Her own little creations have on average been viewed at most a few thousand times - average views across her entire back catalogue works out at 13 views per day. She's a prolific propagandist that is true, but compared to some of the more successful youtubers not a very popular one.  Never mind, as long as she's making a few quid out of it, I'm sure she's more than happy.

How's the search for a hobby going Alfie ?  8(0(*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 28, 2015, 06:26:38 PM
How's the search for a hobby going Alfie ?  8(0(*
Tell you what Faithlilly here's an idea. When you post, make sure your comment has a relevant point. It makes it so much more interesting for the reader  8(0(*
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: faithlilly on March 28, 2015, 06:49:15 PM
Tell you what Faithlilly here's an idea. When you post, make sure your comment has a relevant point. It makes it so much more interesting for the reader  8(0(*

 8((()*/
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Carana on March 30, 2015, 07:32:25 PM
Many "Justice" campaigners find Amaral to be a hero. I have yet to hear a single person who has made his theory seem plausible.

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 30, 2015, 07:51:53 PM
Have you ever read a plausible theory from a "sceptic"?  I haven't.

Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Carana on March 30, 2015, 08:13:25 PM
Have you ever read a plausible theory from a "sceptic"?  I haven't.

No one has ever managed to explain how Amaral's theory could have happened in reality, to my knowledge. Not even his staunchest supporters.

I have heard bits of alternative theories that could theoretically be plausible, but then still require inexplicable leaps of logic.
Title: Re: 'Justice For Maddie' Campaigners...
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 30, 2015, 10:01:26 PM
Many "Justice" campaigners find Amaral to be a hero. I have yet to hear a single person who has made his theory seem plausible.


I think you may find that lobbing all 'Amaral Supporters' together gives you the wrong answer.

Many people, including myself, support his right to freedom of expression. Not necessarily agreeing what he says, or reading the contents of the book he wrote. I defend his right to write it. It is in the Human rights act . That is why he got so much support, and the McCann supporters just don't get that!

He was vilified, and verbally attacked by people who didn't even know him via the McCanns. He was subjected to trial by media in this country. Something the supporters don't like regards the McCanns...goose and gander come to mind.

He may or may not be a nice guy. I don't know him. He has not been charged with any criminal act regarding the McCanns.