Amaral and the dogs

[mercury]

It doesn't directly. It shows that this dog's treat is a small coloured hoop (IMO Eddie's was a tennis ball). BTW this dog had just that minute alerted in a missing child case. Investigators decided to ignore its intelligence because they had already searched the indicated area several times so no point in searching yet again.

Oh so confirmation  humans are dumb not dogs,yup, will agree there

[pegasus]

Oh so confirmation  humans are dumb not dogs,yup, will agree there

Yes that is correct, as I am sure the DCIs on that case learned.

[Mr Gray]

We know that Eddie was correct in the Prout case, although there was no evidence found following his alert. He alerted in Jersey and no evidence was found there either. Does that mean he was wrong? No. it means no evidence was found.

He alerted in this case and no evidence was found. Does that mean he was wrong? No, it means no evidence was found.

we cannot prove eddie is right or wrong when no evidence is found...therefore we cannot claim that eddie has never been wrong

[G-Unit]

we cannot prove eddie is right or wrong when no evidence is found...therefore we cannot claim that eddie has never been wrong

Who is claiming that Eddie was never wrong? In this particular case Eddie was right twice; behind the sofa in G5A, and with the Renault car. His alerts were confirmed by Keela and by forensic tests. The dogs suggested something was there and they were correct.

Eddie's other alerts were unconfirmed, but because he was right twice my personal opinion is that those alerts are more likely to have been right than wrong. Of course that's just my opinion, which a lot of people disagree with, but it makes sense to me.

[Mr Gray]

Who is claiming that Eddie was never wrong? In this particular case Eddie was right twice; behind the sofa in G5A, and with the Renault car. His alerts were confirmed by Keela and by forensic tests. The dogs suggested something was there and they were correct.

Eddie's other alerts were unconfirmed, but because he was right twice my personal opinion is that those alerts are more likely to have been right than wrong. Of course that's just my opinion, which a lot of people disagree with, but it makes sense to me.

There are many claims that eddie has never been wrong...in amaral's book I believe ..repeated ad nauseam online. Eddie's alerts confirmed by keela would be blood...minute specks...not unusual in any house.

Again your personal opinion is of value only to you

[pathfinder73]

There are many claims that eddie has never been wrong...in amaral's book I believe ..repeated ad nauseam online. Eddie's alerts confirmed by keela would be blood...minute specks...not unusual in any house.

Again your personal opinion is of value only to you

Martin Grime said he's never gave a false alert. He should know. Look at Morse record that was released. Mark Harrison recommended the best dogs to the PJ.

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies. (TOTL)

[G-Unit]

There are many claims that eddie has never been wrong...in amaral's book I believe ..repeated ad nauseam online. Eddie's alerts confirmed by keela would be blood...minute specks...not unusual in any house.

Again your personal opinion is of value only to you

Although blood specks are probably common in a house no alerts occurred in any other places. Perhaps there was something different about these ones? Until  can work out how a dogs sense of smell works we don't know the answer to that one. Animals definitely have skills that we lack. I have owned two dogs which knew when someone familiar to them was coming to the house at least five minutes before the person arrived in their vehicle. We assume they can hear vehicles much better than we can and identify the sound of individual engines which they associate with the driver.

[Benice]

Martin Grime said he's never gave a false alert. He should know. Look at Morse record that was released. Mark Harrison recommended the best dogs to the PJ.

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies. (TOTL)

What is your opinion on Keela PF - regarding the following?   She did not alert to the white curtains on her first 'search' but then did alert to them  on her second 'search. 

Was she wrong the first day and right on the second day? or
Was she right the first day and wrong on the second day?

Either she failed to detect an odour that was present on the first search - or she was correct and no odour was present  - which means she gave a false alert  on the 2nd search.   As forensic tests found no trace of blood - then IMO that is suggestive of a false alert.



Quote
On 2007/07/31 she's searched the apartment 5a. She didn't alert to the curtains behind the sofa.

On 2007/08/03 she's searched the apartment again.

19.20 The dog "marked" the lower part of the left white coloured curtain of the window behind the sofa.
 


Relevant part of the FSS report :

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.

286A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain.

286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain.

These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected.
 

[G-Unit]

What is your opinion on Keela PF - regarding the following?   She did not alert to the white curtains on her first 'search' but then did alert to them  on her second 'search. 

Was she wrong the first day and right on the second day? or
Was she right the first day and wrong on the second day?

Either she failed to detect an odour that was present on the first search - or she was correct and no odour was present  - which means she gave a false alert  on the 2nd search.   As forensic tests found no trace of blood - then IMO that is suggestive of a false alert.



Quote
On 2007/07/31 she's searched the apartment 5a. She didn't alert to the curtains behind the sofa.

On 2007/08/03 she's searched the apartment again.

19.20 The dog "marked" the lower part of the left white coloured curtain of the window behind the sofa.
 


Relevant part of the FSS report :

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.

286A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain.

286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain.

These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected.
 

Apparently Keela could detect miniscule amounts of blood. That may be why she picked it up only on the second try, and it was too tiny for forensic traces to be found.

[pathfinder73]

What is your opinion on Keela PF - regarding the following?   She did not alert to the white curtains on her first 'search' but then did alert to them  on her second 'search. 

Was she wrong the first day and right on the second day? or
Was she right the first day and wrong on the second day?

Either she failed to detect an odour that was present on the first search - or she was correct and no odour was present  - which means she gave a false alert  on the 2nd search.   As forensic tests found no trace of blood - then IMO that is suggestive of a false alert.



Quote
On 2007/07/31 she's searched the apartment 5a. She didn't alert to the curtains behind the sofa.

On 2007/08/03 she's searched the apartment again.

19.20 The dog "marked" the lower part of the left white coloured curtain of the window behind the sofa.
 


Relevant part of the FSS report :

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.

286A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain.

286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain.

These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected.
 

Keela can detect washed blood.

[Mr Gray]

Martin Grime said he's never gave a false alert. He should know. Look at Morse record that was released. Mark Harrison recommended the best dogs to the PJ.

The dogs' CV is impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies. (TOTL)

Martin Grime doesn't know if eddie ever gave a false alert......you need to read his statement in context..

[pathfinder73]

Martin Grime doesn't know if eddie ever gave a false alert......you need to read his statement in context..

FALSE ALERTS

'False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated
operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200
criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and
specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the
dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal.

The dog will alert to the presence of cadaver scent whether it is at source or
some distance away from a deposition site. This enables the use of the dog to
identify the venting or exhaust channels of the scent through fissures in
bedrock or watercourses.

[mercury]

we cannot prove eddie is right or wrong when no evidence is found...therefore we cannot claim that eddie has never been wrong

Its not your position as a layman to make any claim

[mercury]

Eddie's alerts confirmed by keela would be blood...minute specks...not unusual in any house.

Another example of a personal and wrong opinion passed off as fact. And of no value except to the poster.

[Carana]

Who is claiming that Eddie was never wrong? In this particular case Eddie was right twice; behind the sofa in G5A, and with the Renault car. His alerts were confirmed by Keela and by forensic tests. The dogs suggested something was there and they were correct.

Eddie's other alerts were unconfirmed, but because he was right twice my personal opinion is that those alerts are more likely to have been right than wrong. Of course that's just my opinion, which a lot of people disagree with, but it makes sense to me.

I don't see where the idea of confirmation via forensic tests comes from. Inconclusive DNA was found. It's not even certain what the substance was that the forensic chap left behind... possibly blood (if Keela was accurate) or a drop of sweat with skins cells, innocently wiping a brow. Or a drop of blood from whoever laid the tiles.

Contrary to mythdom, Keela doesn't appear to have alerted at the wall itself, AFAIK. So how the DNA traces on the wall became "evidence" of blood spatter remains to be explained.