Amaral and the dogs

[Eleanor]

Well Eleanor, it's just part of calculus.

What supposed calculations of mine are you referring to Eleanor ?

I'm intrigued. &%+((£

I have no idea of what a Calculus is, Stephen.  So I can't help you.

[slartibartfast]

No idea of what you are talking about.  I know that figures can be distorted.  But not to the likes of me.  But then I can do all of your supposed equations in my head.  Some of us can you know.
Logistics.

When you are in a hole, stop digging.

[Mr Gray]

I still think it would be useful data - where in the apartment the clothing was. "Data data data!" as Holmes said.

More like a red herring to take the investigation in the wrong direction

[stephen25000]

I have no idea of what a Calculus is, Stephen.  So I can't help you.

I don't  need help Eleanor.

It's part of one of the subjects I teach.

[Eleanor]

When you are in a hole, stop digging.

What hole?  I amn't in a hole.  That's your problem.  When do you expect the McCanns to be arrested?
I rest secure in the knowledge that they never will be.

[Eleanor]

I don't  need help Eleanor.

It's part of one of the subjects I teach.

I think I will bail out on answering that.  It might be insulting.

[Carew]

You mean like alerting to a tissue used for cleaning up after sex, for instance?

Maybe as Davel suggested......(sort of )...... that the dog alerts to the strongest scent at the site ?

 The sex-tissue over riding the weaker scent from the historic toenail fragments, any residual scents from plasters, saliva , mop related cross -contamination and coconuts in this instance ?

Maybe he settled for the tissue due to unconscious cuing or to get his reward or simply to get the job over with due to exhaustion?

[Alfred R Jones]

Maybe as Davel suggested......(sort of )...... that the dog alerts to the strongest scent at the site ?

 The sex-tissue over riding the weaker scent from the historic toenail fragments, any residual scents from plasters, saliva , mop related cross -contamination and coconuts in this instance ?

Maybe he settled for the tissue due to unconscious cuing or to get his reward or simply to get the job over with due to exhaustion?

Exactly.  Who knows?  Dogs may not lie but that's only cos they can't actually speak so we'll never know what's really going on in their canine brains.

[Alice Purjorick]

3.10.11 We now deal with the introduction of Martin GRIME and his Enhanced
Victim Recovery Dog (EVRD) to Operation Rectangle. Operation
Haven has established through enquiry with the NPIA, that
Martin GRIME was an ACPO accredited dog handler whilst he was a
serving police officer, but forfeited accreditation upon his retirement in
July 2007. We mentioned that Mr GRIME remains on the ACPO
accredited list of experts though his EVRD is no longer accredited by
ACPO. Whilst Martin GRIME’s original contract to Jersey was for five
days, his actual deployment lasted for 130 days.
3.10.12 The forensic review carried out by    X of the NPIA
questioned the presence of Martin GRIME on site for such a long
time. X , was informed that Martin GRIME had been
acting as a Deputy Crime Scene Manager to Forensic Service
Manager X , at the request of DCO HARPER. The forensic
review noted Martin GRIME’s lack of formal training or qualifications
to perform the role of Deputy Forensic Service Manager and that to
utilise him in this role ‘cannot be recognised as good practice’. The
review also noted that ‘there was concern from some persons
interviewed that too much reliance had been placed on the dogs’. It is
accepted that dogs are ‘presumptive screening assets’ only and that
any alerts or indications they give must be forensically corroborated.
In addition, it is a fact that there were no concise terms of reference
for the deployment of Martin GRIME and his EVRD or his subsequent
use as a search advisor, apparently with the support of
DCO HARPER.
3.10.13 CO POWER himself states ‘the search dog seemed to play a
significant role in determining whether a specific location needed to
be examined further. I am not an expert on dogs or what they do’.
3.10.14 Again, there is a distinct lack of documentary evidence to show any
intrusive supervision of the SIO with regard to the continued search.
This Inquiry concludes that the actions of DCO HARPER and
Martin GRIME went unsupervised for some considerable time. To
Page 116 of 383


Supervision Highly Confidential – Personal Information
CO POWER’s credit, there is an e-mail exchange between him and
DCO HARPER dated 10 May 2008 in which CO POWER raises the
question of the continued use of Martin GRIME and his EVRD. He
says ‘Lenny, it has struck me for some time that he [Mr GRIME] is an
expensive resource who has more than his fair shared of down time’.
DCO HARPER replied in the same e-mail string ‘to be fair to him
though, he hasn’t got much down time as he is also the NPIA search
coordinator and is fully employed’. CO POWER replies ‘Thanks.
Better understood now’. CO POWER does not appear to pursue the
matter further.
3.10.15 However, DCO HARPER’s reply was not factually accurate.
Martin GRIME was neither an NPIA search advisor nor fully
employed. In his statement, Martin GRIME states that ‘I am a Subject
Matter Expert registered with the UK National Policing Improvement
Agency and specialist homicide canine search advisor… I advise
Domestic and International Law enforcement agencies on the
operational deployment of police dogs in the role of homicide
investigation. I develop methods of detecting forensically recoverable
evidence by the use of dogs and facilitate training’. His expertise lay
purely in the use of dogs in searching, not as a 'search co-ordinator'.
3.10.16 OFFICER X notes that during conversation with X, CO POWER
accepted that ‘the dog was ‘probably unreliable’ and that the dog
handler, GRIME, had too much influence over the enquiry, again,
Mr POWER didn’t say how he managed or dealt with that issue’. This
Inquiry has been unable to establish whether CO POWER made any
further attempts to supervise the SIO in this key part of the
investigation.
3.10.17 OFFICER X concludes ‘decisions should be made based on
professional policing judgement and evidence. When you look at the
facts, the excavation and searching of Haut De La Garenne… was
not justified’.


Operation Rectangle


More recently, it's Eddie who helps to find a body buried under a flagstone at the former orphanage, Haut-de-la-Garenne, in Jersey, setting for a terrible case of paedophilia and child murder.

(Goncalo Amaral, Truth of the Lie, chapter 16)

I posted that lot once already why are you posting it again?

[pegasus]

More like a red herring to take the investigation in the wrong direction

Maybe, but I'll do some check measurements anyway.

[pegasus]

Is it possible some of the alerts are irrelevant (tiler and gardener mishaps?) and some are not irrelevant?
Or is it all or nothing?

[ferryman]

Is it possible some of the alerts are irrelevant (tiler and gardener mishaps?) and some are not irrelevant?
Or is it all or nothing?

I think it's nothing, because the way the dogs were handled brings into question the whole modus operandi.

[Mr Gray]

I think it's nothing, because the way the dogs were handled brings into question the whole modus operandi.

I don't see how any residual scent could last for 3 months outside in wind and rain

[Anna]

Topic..........................No more warnings

[pathfinder73]

Eddie was trained for living and cadavar scents.   Maybe this Zapata dog was solely trained for cadavar odour?


Your analogy does not work in this case Pfinder, because of Eddies past training looking for living people.

Soz

You are wrong so give it up Sadie. SY are using the same dogs (Tito & Muzzy) that also alert to blood like Eddie. Name some cases where Eddie has found a living missing person? Eddie and Keela are used to find evidence in possible missing people murder cases.

Tito and Muzzy handler Sally Richards said recently: “They are trained to find anything from tiny specks of blood which are hard for the human eye to see to a full-sized victim, and everything in between.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-search-april-jones-3642420#ixzz33lYYLilY

“But with missing people and murder cases, we know we’re giving people closure. You know that person or body may not have been recovered if it wasn’t for the work that the team put in. With murder cases, it’s about finding evidence that could otherwise have been missed,” said Pc Newman.

Pc Williams said: “It’s a sense of determination to get justice for the family. All of us have a quiet sense of determination. Sometimes you find yourself up to your knees in mud, you have been there for hours but what keeps you going is finding or getting closure for the family.”

As well as working on cases local to their Bridgend base, they have also been asked to go abroad. They have been involved in the most recent search for missing schoolgirl Madeleine McCann.

All four of the team went to Portugal in June last year, working with the Metropolitan Police.

But what is it that makes these springer spaniels so skilled? Partly, it’s because their olfactory glands - in their noses - are 400 times more powerful than a human’s.

Pc Newman said: “The dogs are tasked with looking for evidence which can be a minuscule piece of evidence like a blood drop which is pin-prick sized.”

That could be in a search area which is small - for example a room in a house - or miles and miles of land.

When the dogs find something of interest, they are trained to freeze.

PC Sally Richards and Tito searching for a human tooth. Part of Crime Scene and Victim Recovery Dog Unit, South Wales Police Dog Section, Waterton Cross, Bridgend.


And the dogs? “They come to work to play, they have the best job a dog could have,” says Sgt Patterson.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/meet-badger-spud-muzzy-tito-8460918