Amaral and the dogs

[G-Unit]

the wind and the rain would be problem as they would dissipate the residual scent...in the case of a cadaver it would not be a problem as we are not dealing with residual scent

Does it rain bleach in PdL? Even if it did it wouldn't affect cadaver scent.

Cadaver scent
cannot readily be removed by cleaning as the compounds adhere to surfaces.
The scent can be 'masked' by bleach and other strong smelling odours but
the dog's olfactory system is able to isolate the odours and identify specific
compounds' and mixes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[stephen25000]

at least its stopped Stephen quoting totally irrelevant chemistry for the last couple of hours

You have plainly revealed you can do neither.

You can play to your audience, but any one with a scrap of knowledge can see through you.

[Mr Gray]

Does it rain bleach in PdL? Even if it did it wouldn't affect cadaver scent.

Cadaver scent
cannot readily be removed by cleaning as the compounds adhere to surfaces.
The scent can be 'masked' by bleach and other strong smelling odours but
the dog's olfactory system is able to isolate the odours and identify specific
compounds' and mixes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

good someone posting on topic...so how long does residual scent last...1 month...2 months ...3 months

[misty]

Why weren't the marked clothes tested for residue of any sort? If foul play was suspected, why did Amaral do nothing with the clothes?

[Alfred R Jones]

these shrubs the dogs alerted to, the ones from which cuttings were analysed for traces of blood, isn't it likely that they were pruned by gardeners at some point between the beginning of May and mid-July?

[sadie]

these shrubs the dogs alerted to, the ones from which cuttings were analysed for traces of blood, isn't it likely that they were pruned by gardeners at some point between the beginning of May and mid-July?

I feel sure that somewhere it says that the gardeners were in during the first days of the Mccann stay.   If anyone finds to the contrary pls let me know .


Certainly in the images of the PJ etc at 5A immediately after Madeleine vanished, the shrubs look very newly cut back ... pruned.

[Lace]

I would expect the pork to be part of a decomposing piglet, otherwise Grime was training him to alert to normal pork. He wouldn't do that because it would mess up all his previous training. This type of training allowed Eddie to alert to such things as;

The search of a suspect's 'totally burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any evidence.
A 'one minute' search by the EVRD identified a position in the rear passenger footwell where the dog alerted to the presence of human material.
A sample was taken and when analysed revealed the victim's DNA.
The enquiry then concentrated it's efforts on the suspect and the EVRD located the body of the woman in a river bank deposition site.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

Can you just clear something up in my mind Gunit.

Eddie was trained using decomposed piglets.

Eddie was trained using human bodies.

Eddie alerts to cadaver scent.

Eddie alerts to blood.

Eddie alerted to blood from a person who was alive,  Gerry,  he also alerted to Grime's blood that he hid for Eddie to find.

Grime said it was difficult for Eddie to discriminate between pork and human remains,   they are so alike.

Eddie would not have forgotten his training with pigs.

So it is possible that Eddie WOULD alert to a pork chop etc.   as Eddie alerted to blood from a person who was still alive,  therefore it wouldn't matter if the pork was decomposed or not,  Eddie wouldn't know the difference.

If there was pig blood or bone in the garden compost,   Eddie would also alert to that.

[Eleanor]

Insult time again?  Give it a rest.  There is absolutely no need for it.

[Lace]

Tell me where in the forensic reports it mentions that anything found belonged to Madeleine?

No checks were made as to what Eddie was alerting to in the bedroom and the garden,  he could well have been alerting to the scent from the vegetation in the garden.

Now tell me Stephen would Eddie have been able to distinguish the scent from blood of pig used in fertiliser and the smell of cadaver scent?

[stephen25000]

Tell me where in the forensic reports it mentions that anything found belonged to Madeleine?

No checks were made as to what Eddie was alerting to in the bedroom and the garden,  he could well have been alerting to the scent from the vegetation in the garden.

Now tell me Stephen would Eddie have been able to distinguish the scent from blood of pig used in fertiliser and the smell of cadaver scent?

You are completely obsessed with pigs.  %£&)**#


Now in the samples collected, there were genetic markers, simply insufficient by Portuguese Law to say it was Madeleine.

Now answer my question.

Just tell me which samples of the material collected contained any non-human genetic material ?

[Lace]

Snipped from a report by Martin Grime read what it says at the end of this report.

 In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States. These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two. That is not to say that this may not be possible in the future.


So Martin Grime is saying he is unable to train the dog to distinguish between human and pig scent.    He has also said Eddie will alert to blood,   we know Eddie alerted to blood from live human beings himself and Gerry McCann there is blood in pig whether it is decayed or not,  Eddie would not be able to distinguish between the two.


     

[Carew]

With so many possible alert triggers on the list setting Eddie off, it`s a wonder any time was left to fit any handler expectation; unconscious cuing and good old Clever Hans into the investigation.

[stephen25000]

Snipped from a report by Martin Grime read what it says at the end of this report.

 In my role as advisor to the U.S. Justice Department I have facilitated assessment of numerous cadaver search dog teams in the United States. These dogs are exclusively trained using human cadaver sources. When I introduced decomposing pig cadavers into training assessments 100 % of the animals alerted to the medium. (The products were obtained from whole piglet cadaver not processed food for human consumption). The result from scientific experiments and research to date is suggestive that the scent of human and pig decomposing material is so similar that we are unable to 'train' the dog to distinguish between the two. That is not to say that this may not be possible in the future.


So Martin Grime is saying he is unable to train the dog to distinguish between human and pig scent.    He has also said Eddie will alert to blood,   we know Eddie alerted to blood from live human beings himself and Gerry McCann there is blood in pig whether it is decayed or not,  Eddie would not be able to distinguish between the two.


   

More cut and paste.

Now just tell me which part of the forensic report showed the presence of pig remains ?

[Mr Gray]

none of this matters...Grime is unable to confirm the dogs alerted to cadaver odour...it's that simple. When he does I will believe that is what the dogs alerted to

[Benice]

More cut and paste.

Now just tell me which part of the forensic report showed the presence of pig remains ?

So if anyone provides a cite which involves cutting and pasting the pertinent part of a report - then you don't consider it worthy of anything other than a dismissive response - on the grounds that it has been cut and pasted?

Bizarre.