Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 845010 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5475 on: September 12, 2015, 06:16:41 PM »
It would be interesting to compare his behaviour on entering 5a with his behaviour on entering one of the other apartments - why are those videos not available?  Were those searches actually video'ed at all?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NMYPsFKb8&feature=youtu.be&t=38m10s

It's on this video.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5476 on: September 12, 2015, 06:33:52 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4NMYPsFKb8&feature=youtu.be&t=38m10s

It's on this video.
Thanks.  Never seen that before.  Why were these searches done at night but Apt 5a during daylight hours, anyone know?  What body language is Eddie not exhibiting as he enters  the other apartments that he does within 2 minutes of entering Apt 5a? 

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5477 on: September 12, 2015, 06:38:07 PM »
Also, why does Grime ask Eddie to smell inside a washing machine?  And he did seem very interested in under the beds in one of the other apartments, despite what Grime tells us  - that he wasn't interested!

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5478 on: September 12, 2015, 06:50:17 PM »
Also, why does Grime ask Eddie to smell inside a washing machine?  And he did seem very interested in under the beds in one of the other apartments, despite what Grime tells us  - that he wasn't interested!

Grime did exercise some bizarre judgements.

We know Eddie reacted to spots of Gerry's blood on the ignition key.  But remembering, always, that they were looking for Madeleine's blood, what possessed Grime to suppose it might be found there?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5479 on: September 12, 2015, 06:53:19 PM »
It's pointless us trying to explain everything without all the information
Things that appear to have no explanation can often be explained very simply
Remember my son working out the answer to the advanced maths question
What seemed impossible had a very simple explanation

Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5480 on: September 12, 2015, 06:55:28 PM »
Also, why does Grime ask Eddie to smell inside a washing machine?  And he did seem very interested in under the beds in one of the other apartments, despite what Grime tells us  - that he wasn't interested!

Pegasus provided the link to that video a few weeks back.
Yes, Eddie was very interested under the bed in 5H.
It also shows the dog retrieving the kebab from the kitchen bin in another apartment.

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5481 on: September 12, 2015, 08:12:51 PM »
Also, why does Grime ask Eddie to smell inside a washing machine?  And he did seem very interested in under the beds in one of the other apartments, despite what Grime tells us  - that he wasn't interested!

He was very interested about whatever was under the bed in one of the apartments; he also showed a great deal of interest at a sideboard ~ an English voice asks about pulling it out to give him better access ~ if I remember correctly that was done but the dog was stood down and not returned to it.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5482 on: September 12, 2015, 08:17:32 PM »
Does anyone know how minutes between entering Apt5a and the dog's first alert?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5483 on: September 12, 2015, 08:21:22 PM »
If Madeleine was lifted by a predator it was done within a very tight time frame ... a very few minutes.  There simply was no time for anyone to hang around with a body and there would have been many more areas of contamination to cause 'alerts'.
Did Eddie once even cast a glance at a door handle?
I firmly believe madeleine was alive when she left the apartment.

With reference to the DCI and his thoughts ... it is my opinion that the investigation latterly came into possession of intelligence which suggested the worst case scenario that Madeleine was dead.  This had to be checked out ... and I believe that is why Tito and Muzzy checked out the mound area.
I like your line of thought, but I have to raise some questions.

The mound is not unimportant to Luz, as media reports intimated at the time.  Quite the opposite, it is central, and an integral part of the traffic system, particularly the one way system.  By this, I mean it is not quiet, it is fairly busy.

Changing tack, here is Kirsty Louise Maryann, childcare worker who participated in the search on 3 / 4 May 07.
"Questioned, the deponent states that beyond this situation, on another occasion, an event caught her attention. An individual of the male sex, in Praia da Luz, next to a café, whose name she does not know, was playing a guitar until the day of the facts, now under investigation. on the night Maddie disappeared and while she was involved with a group searching, mentioned prior, they encountered a vehicle, whose make and model she does not know, of while colour, commercial, parked on top of a hill, where, she cannot identify. At this point, some of the group elements banged on the window of the vehicle and the back doors and saw the person who habitually played the guitar on the beach. He was covered with blankets, reading a book and drinking a beer, with the help of a flashlight. Questioned, they did were not able to observe in detail the interior of the vehicle. She add that the individual was asked whether he had seen a minor of about four years of age and the same responded, jocularly, that on that night, no one knocked on the doors of his vehicle."

There are two areas within Luz where people park overnight their camper vans or, in this case, a Ford Escort van.

One is south of the Paraíso - not the restaurant, but the urbanisation immediately west of the mound.  That area is flat as a pancake, so it can be ruled out.

The other is on top of the mound, up a hill that Kirsty had no reason to recognise.

Nor did SY, since they have not visited the crime scene, in any real sense.

For these reasons, I do not think that SY was working on intelligence.  If I am gracious, I think they were working on nearness.  If I am not, they were working on ignorance.
What's up, old man?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5484 on: September 12, 2015, 08:27:52 PM »
I like your line of thought, but I have to raise some questions.

The mound is not unimportant to Luz, as media reports intimated at the time.  Quite the opposite, it is central, and an integral part of the traffic system, particularly the one way system.  By this, I mean it is not quiet, it is fairly busy.

Changing tack, here is Kirsty Louise Maryann, childcare worker who participated in the search on 3 / 4 May 07.
"Questioned, the deponent states that beyond this situation, on another occasion, an event caught her attention. An individual of the male sex, in Praia da Luz, next to a café, whose name she does not know, was playing a guitar until the day of the facts, now under investigation. on the night Maddie disappeared and while she was involved with a group searching, mentioned prior, they encountered a vehicle, whose make and model she does not know, of while colour, commercial, parked on top of a hill, where, she cannot identify. At this point, some of the group elements banged on the window of the vehicle and the back doors and saw the person who habitually played the guitar on the beach. He was covered with blankets, reading a book and drinking a beer, with the help of a flashlight. Questioned, they did were not able to observe in detail the interior of the vehicle. She add that the individual was asked whether he had seen a minor of about four years of age and the same responded, jocularly, that on that night, no one knocked on the doors of his vehicle."

There are two areas within Luz where people park overnight their camper vans or, in this case, a Ford Escort van.

One is south of the Paraíso - not the restaurant, but the urbanisation immediately west of the mound.  That area is flat as a pancake, so it can be ruled out.

The other is on top of the mound, up a hill that Kirsty had no reason to recognise.

Nor did SY, since they have not visited the crime scene, in any real sense.

For these reasons, I do not think that SY was working on intelligence.  If I am gracious, I think they were working on nearness.  If I am not, they were working on ignorance.
Did the PJ not have any input into these searches?  If not, why not?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5485 on: September 12, 2015, 08:34:03 PM »
Does anyone know how minutes between entering Apt5a and the dog's first alert?

This is interesting:

Inspection of the apartments.

Date: July 31st 2007 - 8pm. Report:

Participants:

PJ: Tavares A. & Ricardo P. Inspectors
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime (UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert),
Eddie & Keela (English Springers)
Silvia B. Manager of the Ocean Club complex.

On that date, inspections were conducted in the apartments occupied by members of the McCann family as well as the group who were with them at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance. It was only on that date that the apartment, identified as that of the parents, was empty allowing further investigation which was authorised by the respective occupants. Thus, at the appointed time, the search with the dogs began, covering the following apartments:

5A:

From 8.30pm to 9.20pm, the dogs go through.
8.20pm: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
8.22pm: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road. [/u]
From 8.47pm to 9.20pm, the blood detecting dog goes through.
8.10 (should it be 9.10?) The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.

5B: 9.24 to 9.27pm: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5D: 9.29 to 9.34pm: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5H : 9.35 to 9.38pm : The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

4G : 9.42 to 9.45pm : The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window.

Date: 01 ao? 2007 - 06h00


I may be missing something (I frequently do) but from that record, it would seem that Eddie's first alerts were 10 minutes and 8 minutes respectively before he set paw inside the apartment.

They are fiendishly clever, these dogs ....

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5486 on: September 12, 2015, 08:57:46 PM »
It would be interesting to compare his behaviour on entering 5a with his behaviour on entering one of the other apartments - why are those videos not available?  Were those searches actually video'ed at all?

How long have you followed this case? And you do not know if the other apartment searches were video'd? Interesting.

The answer to your questionfrom Pegasus a short while ago on this thread:-
Behaviour outside each apartment http://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8
5A 13:15
5B 38:10
5D 41:39
5H 46:37
4G 49:58


As for your being perplexed about day and night searches, the apartment searches commenced early evening when still light and finished when it was dark, AFAIAW the dogs abilities are not affected by any lack of vitamin D in the atmosphere....

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5487 on: September 12, 2015, 09:03:23 PM »
How long have you followed this case? And you do not know if the other apartment searches were video'd? Interesting.

The answer to your questionfrom Pegasus a short while ago on this thread:-
Behaviour outside each apartment http://youtu.be/c4NMYPsFKb8
5A 13:15
5B 38:10
5D 41:39
5H 46:37
4G 49:58


As for your being perplexed about day and night searches, the apartment searches commenced early evening when still light and finished when it was dark, AFAIAW the dogs abilities are not affected by any lack of vitamin D in the atmosphere....
I thought you'd decided to ignore my shameful, worthless posts?  If I did know that there was video footage ofthe other apartment searches I had forgotten.  Unlike some people I did not do an MA in McCann Studies and only got a C at A-Level, I do apologise.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5488 on: September 12, 2015, 09:04:33 PM »
This is interesting:

Inspection of the apartments.

Date: July 31st 2007 - 8pm. Report:

Participants:

PJ: Tavares A. & Ricardo P. Inspectors
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime (UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert),
Eddie & Keela (English Springers)
Silvia B. Manager of the Ocean Club complex.

On that date, inspections were conducted in the apartments occupied by members of the McCann family as well as the group who were with them at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance. It was only on that date that the apartment, identified as that of the parents, was empty allowing further investigation which was authorised by the respective occupants. Thus, at the appointed time, the search with the dogs began, covering the following apartments:

5A:

From 8.30pm to 9.20pm, the dogs go through.
8.20pm: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
8.22pm: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road. [/u]
From 8.47pm to 9.20pm, the blood detecting dog goes through.
8.10 (should it be 9.10?) The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.

5B: 9.24 to 9.27pm: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5D: 9.29 to 9.34pm: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5H : 9.35 to 9.38pm : The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

4G : 9.42 to 9.45pm : The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window.

Date: 01 ao? 2007 - 06h00


I may be missing something (I frequently do) but from that record, it would seem that Eddie's first alerts were 10 minutes and 8 minutes respectively before he set paw inside the apartment.

They are fiendishly clever, these dogs ....

It is obviously a typo,  hardly anythng to get excited about, or make anyone think dogs were psychic, but it would help if you only posted information from the PJ files and not blogs...and we have gone over this before, why you would want to keep regurgitating stuff is anyone's guess

 *&*%£

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #5489 on: September 12, 2015, 09:05:35 PM »
So what time did the dogs go into Aprtment 5a?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 09:10:56 PM by Alfred R Jones »