Author Topic: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.  (Read 168082 times)

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Offline gilet

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2013, 03:38:54 AM »
On May 4th "The entrance to the building where the apartments are is the exact place where she saw the man."

This could possibly mean the stairway up to the one apartment but especially as she used the word apartments in the plural it could just as likely (possibly more likely) mean the path from which there was an entrance to all the other ground floor apartments (via the patio doors) as in this photo.
*****

Your post above suggested Jane Tanner saw the man at the back alley! Which is just not true! As she saw him at the top of the road marked with number FIVE on her drawing


So no, it is NOT possibly more likely

I incorrectly interpreted the sentence about the "man" as being about Jeremy Wilkins. It was not, it was a reference to the abductor and as such is not relevant to this thread.

The reality is that Jane Tanner marked the position of the Gerry and Jerry meeting as being close to the position Jeremy marked on his plan.

She makes no mention of the gate when marking this position. If she had believed the meeting was right by the gate do you not think that she might have used that on the plan as a marker? 

I have posted clear evidence which backs up Sadies theory.

The position that Jeremy marked on his plan is at the corner of the path.

The position that Jane marked is very close to that corner and she makes no mention at all of the gate as a reference point.

Jane clearly says in her rogatory that she saw them almost immediately after leaving the Tapas reception.

Jeremy says that he did not know if Gerry had just left the apartment suggesting strongly he did not see him very close to the gate.

And the position by the corner of the path is clearly out of site of the back of the balcony where Sadies theory puts a potential abductor.

So far none of the evidence I have seen discounts in any way her theory.


Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2013, 03:49:38 AM »
jane tanner marked the position well away from Wilkins x spot

Offline gilet

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 04:12:55 AM »
If by well away, you mean the length of a car (as can be seen on the GE image) then I don't think your use of that term is very accurate.

Incidentally it would be about an equal distance to the gate as you claim as well. LOL

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2013, 04:24:08 AM »
Dont worry about it gilet, i sure sadies theory is right
 8((()*/

Offline gilet

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2013, 04:30:41 AM »
Dont worry about it gilet, i sure sadies theory is right
 8((()*/

Well I have never gone as far as you. But I am glad that you have been convinced.

Personally, I just think it is a theory which deserves careful reading.

And so far nobody has managed to post anything which demonstrates that it could not be the truth.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2013, 12:06:31 PM »

Well done, Sadie.  That is a very well explained theory, and perfectly possible.  It explains just about everything.

Personally, I have always thought that Gerry and Gez were actually standing in the opening to the back pathway, leaving the pavement relatively clear for Jane Tanner to walk by unnoticed by them both.

Offline Centaur

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2013, 12:22:40 PM »
Sadies theory requires that the man have access to the balcony which I find improbable.   I go with the accomplice theory though but he or she probably just stood out of sight at the top of the road and watched and then made for their car before realising that Tanner was coming up the road again.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 12:33:06 PM »
Sadies theory requires that the man have access to the balcony which I find improbable.   I go with the accomplice theory though but he or she probably just stood out of sight at the top of the road and watched and then made for their car before realising that Tanner was coming up the road again.

I think you will find that the balcony is in the stair well, and with access to anyone.

Offline Centaur

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 01:43:51 PM »
Sadies theory requires that the man have access to the balcony which I find improbable.   I go with the accomplice theory though but he or she probably just stood out of sight at the top of the road and watched and then made for their car before realising that Tanner was coming up the road again.

I think you will find that the balcony is in the stair well, and with access to anyone.


Oh thank you Eleanor i didn't realise that as it had not been explained.   8((()*/

Offline Eleanor

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 02:14:46 PM »
Sadies theory requires that the man have access to the balcony which I find improbable.   I go with the accomplice theory though but he or she probably just stood out of sight at the top of the road and watched and then made for their car before realising that Tanner was coming up the road again.

I think you will find that the balcony is in the stair well, and with access to anyone.

My pleasure.

It has been suggested that one of the appartment occupiers might have been smoking on the star well, but this is hardly likely as each appartment had it's own balcony.


Oh thank you Eleanor i didn't realise that as it had not been explained.   8((()*/

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2013, 10:19:55 PM »
First of all my apologies for being absent all day.

It's a mans world

and my day was set out for me.


Hopefully I will be able to respond now without too many interruptions.   

Again my apologies for not being here



First of all a big thankyou to John and Gilet for posting photographs and GEarth images  and thanks to others for their support.

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2013, 10:55:01 PM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1249.15  see posts 24 and 29



OK; Jez's actual map, so that was where Gerry and Jez stood chatting

This theory verifies my more recent thoughts that the watcher was on the balcony immediately across the road from 5A.  ....and eliminates all the other possible watcher points

---------------------------------------

This abduction nearly failed, because the watcher couldn't see Gerry and gave the go ahead at the wrong time.  Every other view point could see that corner and for the watcher to have been given the go ahead Gerry had to have been out of his view.




Link to photo location

Ok you have the area, please open your own GE and zoom right in.


You will see a street lamp on the pavement nearthe balcony (small round circle}

This balcony was partially bathed in light from the very close sodium street light.  The back part (southern end) of this balcony was in the shade.  The watcher would have made sure he was in the shade.

From that shaded part he couldn't see Gerry and Jez, nor the emerging Jane ... so he gave the go ahead.

The getaway vehicle was in the little parking area behind the flats in which the balcony was. [directly across the road from the Reception to the Tapas]   Immediately he had given the go ahead, he walked down and thru that block and its little garden.  He crossed the garden to a gate which opened directly on to the little car park, straight into the van ... or 4 wheel drive ***

THe abductor had been skulking in/near the recess to the front door, which was in near blackness .   As the abductor almost certainly had a key, once he got the signal, he was in and out like a shot, only stopping to open the window and blinds. 
SNIP/-


Ok it seems that the position that Gerry and Jeze chatting is in contention.

There are three very strong pieces of evidence, that the chatting WAS on the corner of the alleyway

1)   

@ 10.08 Jane Tanner is adamant that Gerry and Jez were standing on the alleyway corner.  Suggest you start @ a little before 10.00.  Also if you doubt Janes sincerity, see her crying @12.30

2) Jezes map that irrefutably shows where he and Gerry were talking - on the corner of the alleyway

3)  Jezes Rogatory statement. 

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2013, 11:18:40 PM »

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Jez wilkins Rogatory.
 
The statement says that Jez left the little side streeet car park (across the road from the tapas reception) and saw Gerry walking on the other side the street.  This means  that Gerry had left the steps and was thru the garden gate walking towards the Tapas as Jez saw him, so they did NOT meet at the steps / gate.
 
It is my considered thought that both men simultaneously started to cross the road towards each other.   But as Jez was two peeps + a pushchair, and the pushchair was facing the western pavement, Gerry turned back and they carried on to the corner that Jez shows on his map.
 
 
PLEASE NOTE  This is the very same alleyway corner that Jez Wilkins draws for the PJ, after, or with, his rogatory statement
Drawing here I le
 


http://i.imgur.com/m2kA9kX.gif

 Jerry and Jez chatting spot according to Jez marked with a splodge and a cross
 
It is the same alleyway corner that Jane very definitely  indicates on the video.  THE ALLEYWAY CORNER
 
  @ 10.08 (suggest view from before 10.00).  Then Jane srying at 12.30
 
I think Gerry remembered part crossing the road and forgot the change of direction back to the alleyway corner. 
The confusion in his mind after the trauma of realising that Madeleine had been taken, wiped part of the memory away.  I suffered similar problems after my little boy died from his brain tumour.  It went on for months, in my case.
 
Jez is very clear in his rogatory statement drawing.  THE ALLEYWAY CORNER   
 
Some extracts from Jez wilkins Rogatory Statement below:
My emboldening and colour
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
 
SNIP/-
Whilst walking the streets, I was hoping my son would fall asleep. Some of the walkways did not have an exit and for this reason I walked practically in circles. When walking one of these paths, I came across a tourist called Curtis with his girlfriend whose name I do not know. He also knew Gerry from the tennis lessons. I remember passing by them but I assumed they were headed to dinner. Eventually, I left one road to the other side of the street to the pool complex, between the McCann apartment and the Tapas Bar. In order to visualise this street, I believe it was the street most used by the news agencies and journalists as all the parked cars indicated during the coverage period.

When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same
. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter.   I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him..  As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar.
From what I remember, the conversation happened right there on the pathway but I am not certain who was located exactly where.
/SNIP-


SNIP/-
Q. Relative to the time we conversed;
I am more certain of this than I am of our relative positions.
The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes. We spoke of the care of children and how they were getting along. He told me something like 'he was on night duty'. I explained to him that I was returning to the apartment as my son was now sleeping. I assumed that Gerry was off to dine with the group in the Tapas bar, but I cannot precisely say this came from him or if I figured this out from our previous conversations regarding the checking system for the children. I remember that Gerry told me if he had stayed another week, he would likely do as I was doing and would stay with the children one night. It appeared as though he was jealous of what I was doing, but given that he was with a big group, he felt the obligation to meet with them every night, and the chosen location was the Tapas bar. I believe that there was some sort of agreement with the tapas Bar as they appeared to have a reservation every night and it was impossible for other guests to book at spot there.

I do not know if we were face to face or side to side when this conversation occurred. As I had the pram with me I was rocking it so my son could sleep, it seems to me that I was in the downward direction, but it is possible that I was in the opposite direction.


I do not remember having seen anyone else at this time besides Gerry. After leaving each other, Gerry walked downward in the direction of the Tapas Bar and I began to walk in the other direction, up the pathway. I turned left at the crossing and passed the apartment. I did not meet anyone else during my walk and once in my apartment, I did not venture out again.

/SNIP-
 
 
As I said before:
The statement says that Jez left the little side street car park (across the road from the tapas reception) and saw Gerry walking on the other side the street.  This means  that Gerry had left the steps and was thru the garden gate walking towards the Tapas as Jez saw him, so they did NOT meet at the steps / gate ... but considerably further down

 





Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2013, 01:00:57 AM »
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1249.15  see posts 24 26 and 29 .... Post 29 was changed a year later, for some reason.


To remind you, it is my belief that this abduction nearly failed, because the watcher couldn't see Gerry and gave the go ahead at the wrong time.  Every other view point could see that corner and for the watcher to have been given the go ahead Gerry had to have been out of his view.  I believe that from the evidence we have Gerry and Jez were on the alleyway corner and because the Watcher on the balcony had to skulk in the shaded area he was unable to see Gerry and Jez.  They had a  sleeping child and would have conversed in muted tones




Link to photo location

Lets make sure that you understand this image (thank you John)

We are looking down the street that Jane walked up and that Gerry and Jez chatted on.  To be clear we are looking from the North to the south and the sea quite a distance beyond. 

To the left we have an apartment block which has three balconies.  It has a garden and garden path to the southern end, with a wall and a gate straight on to a parking area, where I think the getaway vehicle was parked.  There is a white car coming out of that little car parking area    The parking area is immediately across the road to the reception to the Tapas area.  You go through that reception to enter the gardens, tennis courts, children's play area , pool, and the tapas restaurant or the Tapas bar.  I am almost certain that there is a crèche in there too.  Maybe Heri or someone else can verify?  Please.

On the RH side, starting in the foreground, we have the back of 5A.   Note the arched open window.  This is immediately opposite the Street lamp (and balconies).  Because of this it is well lit.  Inside that arched opening is the patio area and the patio door; also well lit

Also note the height of the sills of these windows.  The road is a steep hill, down from our view.  The front of the apartment is level with the top of the hill and as per usual the floor of the apartment is horizontal.  This means that although at the front it is a ground floor apartment, at the rear it is raised quite considerably to virtually first floor level.  Hence the steps up that we have all seen Gerry climbing.

It also means that once past the garden gate to 5a, a person walking in the dark and looking normally in a forward direction would only notice a wall to his left after passing 5A gate.  More about this later maybe

After the arched window, the building stops and you will see a small gap.  That gap is where 5A gate is.  Then a green hedge followed by another bigger gap.  This is the alleyway.  The corner adjacent to the hedge is where Jez and Jane thrice maintain Gerry and Jez chatted.

After the alleyway, we have a high wall and the tapas reception.  Another high wall and in the distance Baptista supermarket


Hope you can understand my description
...................................................................


Looking down on GE, you will see a street lamp on the pavement near the balcony (small round circle}

This balcony was partially bathed in light from the very close sodium street light.  The back part (southern end) of this balcony was in the shade.  The watcher would have made sure he was in the shade.

From that shaded part he couldn't see Gerry and Jez, nor the emerging Jane ... so he gave the go ahead.

The getaway vehicle was in the little parking area behind the flats. [directly across the road from the Reception to the Tapas]   

Immediately he had given the go ahead, he walked down and through that block and its little garden.  He crossed the garden to a shared gate which opened directly on to the little car park, straight into the van ... or 4 wheel drive ***

The abductor had been skulking in/near the recess to the front door, which was in near blackness .   As the abductor almost certainly had a key, once he got the signal, he was in and out like a shot, only stopping to open the window and blinds. 
SNIP/-





5A gate is to the west of the main street near the darker parked car.  The street lamps is the tiny spot on the eastern pavement and the balcony is the middle "step" of the apartment block close, but N.N.E. of the lamp.  My thought is that the getaway car was parked where the red car is shown, at the end of the garden pathway and through the gate.

The cream coloured area surrounded by greenery is the rear garden to 5A and just below that is the Alleyway that Gerry and Jez stood at the corner of, chatting.  The brown roof part showing at the bottom of the image  is the Reception to the tapas.  Everyone coming, or going, had to pass through this.  It was private to the Ocean Club, although when I was there outsiders suitably dressed could buy meals there.

It is my thought that the watcher from his spot in the balcony shadows, so  not able to see Gerry and Jez,  gave the go ahead to bundleman (?and lifter?).    Entrance was with a key and Madeleine was lifted in a flash.  Meanwhile the watcher went down stairs and along the garden path. and through the gate.  The getaway vehicle was immediately there.

Apart from Gerry and Jez, the other thing that the watcher didn't realise, cos she was out of sight too, was that Jane Tanner was starting her walk up whilst he was traversing the apartment block. 

Expecting Bundleman to be out waiting with Madeleine at 5A car park entrance (see the red spots), the watcher started to swing out and suddenly saw Gerry and Jez and then ... SHOCK-HORROR ! ... saw Jane witnessing it all. 

Wetting his pants, he abandoned bundleman and drove off in the other direction.

Bundleman, meanwhile, was not going to hang around for all to see at the entrance to 5A car park and started to walk towards the balcony apartment ... or even just to JT corner to be there for the pick up..................

And Jane Tanner saw him!        @)(++(* Bludy L  @)(++(*



Only a theory, but it fits perfectly as far as I can see


Over to you Icabod 8**8:/:

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2013, 01:06:32 AM »
I can't pick any holes in your theory sadie

It is  thought through  and well researched  ...  there's nothing to say it didn't happen just as you suggest