Reasons why Neville would not call Jeremy:

[adam]

1: Jeremy may not answer. Regardless of whether he heard the phone ringing or not. 

2:Neville may not have time. Sheila was going crazy. There were five people inside WHF who were the priority. 

3:He may not answer for a long time as was 'sleeping like a log'. 

4: Neville may only get the answering machine. 

5: Neville will assume the answering machine is switched on. Making it impossible for Jeremy to answer the phone within 3 - 8 rings as he was 'sleeping like a log'. 

6: Jeremy did not like Sheila or understand her illness.  So would just make things worse when trying to talk her down. 

7: Sheila did not like Jeremy. 

8: Another adult, June was available at WHF. 

9: The rifle was not powerful, being used for vermin. Neville would know this. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired.

10: Sheila had 'limited'/ no experience with guns. So Neville would tackle Sheila prior to shots being fired. 

11: Neville could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit. 

12: Neville and June together could restrain Sheila easily. If fully or even partially fit. 

13: Jeremy was three miles away and not dressed.  

14: The police had been called by Neville ten minutes earlier. 

15: Neville would be putting his only son in danger. 

16: Jeremy may be scared to go over. He told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going 'back to the nut house' and told the police she had committed child abuse. Now Neville had told him she had 'gone crazy' with a gun.

17: Jeremy did not have a key to WHF so would have to smash the door down, or smash a window. Or shout through the letter box. Making Sheila more excitable.  Neville may not have been aware that Jeremy could get in through windows. 

18: Sheila would not be pleased to see him. 

19: Jeremy would be reluctant to rush over if answering the phone. Having poor relations with all the family. 

20: Jeremy may refuse to go over. Being tired and upset at being woken.Lookout said it was common for Sheila to have 'one of her turns' so he may have decided to go back to bed. 

21: Jeremy may not rush over. Maybe wasting up to 26 minutes doing strange things. 

22: Jeremy may just ring nearby farm workers and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do himself and may consider a better option. 

23: Jeremy may just ring the Foakes's and tell them to go over. Something Neville could do and may consider a better option.  

24: Neville calling someone would antagonise Sheila. She may even brutally beat someone. 

25: Neville could call the Foakes's. Who were two adults living at WHF.

26: There was no time to make any calls if Sheila had 'gone' crazy with a gun.  

27: When there was time to make a call Neville had the option of restraining Sheila. Getting June to assist. 

28: There was no time to wait for someone to arrive. Sheila had 'gone 'crazy'.

28: Relations between the two were poor and getting worse.   After Jeremy robbed the caravan site and spent the money. 

30: Neville would be prepared to take a torso bullet in order to restrain Sheila. Knowing the gun was for shooting vermin/rabbits and a torso shot would not kill him. 

31: The kitchen phone was downstairs. Meaning everyone would be left upstairs. Unless Sheila had accompanied him downstairs. 

32: If the answering machine was switched off, as his supporters claim. Jeremy would not hear his downstairs phone. If his bedroom door was shut. 

33: Neville was bigger and stronger than Jeremy and the head of the family. 

34: Sheila would have to let Neville open the door when Jeremy arrives. Or Neville would have to put himself in danger by getting to the front door against Sheila's wishes. 

35: Sheila is more likely to fire bullets if more people start pressurising her and arriving on the scene. 

36: Neville would be aware that he was the person who always had most success in calming down an excited Sheila. If he couldn't, then someone who thought Sheila was a 'looney' certainly could not. 

37: Jeremy was not known to be especially brave. So may refuse to go anywhere near the inside of WHF. Preferring to stay 50 yards from the entrance.  This is what happened. 

38: Neville would be implicating his son if there were any injuries or fatalities. As Jeremy would be first on the scene and first witness. This is what happened. 

39: Jeremy was not known for being especially brave. So may have just phoned the police. Neville had either already done this. Or wanted to keep things private. Jeremy did in fact call the police. 

40: It is not standard practice to call relations on the phone at 3am when you're life is in danger. There are no other examples of this happening. 

 


 

[Holly Goodhead]

Toning cardio or a bit of both? 

See you've been banned again for 48 hours.  I was banned initially for a week!  Yes a week.  The longest banned ever imposed other than permanent bans. 

Adam you seem to be of the opinion that if NB called JB it was on the basis that he wanted JB to go over.  As far as I can see this is not necessarily the case.  If NB only said "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun" it may have just been to got a distress message out of WHF fast.

If none of the relatives knew about SC's mental illness then it's less likely that the Foakes would.  JB was likely to be the only local person aware of the severity of SC's mental illness.  How could NB phone anyone who was not even aware SC was suffering from a serious mental illness to tell them at circa 3am "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun"?

Excerpt CC's book:

"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam.  Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden.  Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it?  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence.  They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong.  These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".

If NB wanted to get a distress call/SOS message out of WHF fast then JB was likely to be the quickest and surest  option:

999

- Dialing 999 longer than potentially 4 lower digits to Goldhanger
- Response time potentially quicker than waiting for JB to wake up and pick up
- Would need to supply full name, full postal address, telephone number, outline of the situation
- Due to the remoteness of WHF may have had some difficulty finding

JB

- Dialing 4 lower digits potentially quicker than 999
- Response time could be longer waiting for JB to wake and move from bedroom to kitchen to pick up phone
- NB could get message over fast "Sheila's gone crazy she's got a gun".  JB aware of SC's mental illness and aware firearms on premises.
- JB could ensure police were directed to WHF

[adam]

He he. I asked them to keep things private the last time I was banned.

Yes. I have noticed that Jeremy's supporters are getting more abusive & making more wild claims. Perhaps to negate their reduction in numbers.   

Even the most tame poster with the least to say,  Numug, or whatever his name is,  did today,  after he created a thread with a made up police quote.

I have been reporting each abusive post to the moderators. On a virtually daily basis. But today answered back to an unprovoked abusive post towards me, which included a swear word. My one post answering back saw me get an instant ban !

The problem is all the moderators are Jeremy or former Jeremy supporters. So do not want to ban other supporters who have been posting for years, and who they may be friends with.

Anyway I have learnt not to respond, just to continue to report abusive posts. Perhaps Grahame will get banned when he gets 50+ reports.

Cardio and weights.

Well there is dispute over weather Neville said 'please come over'. But I cannot see any other reason why Neville would call Jeremy apart from wanting him to come over.

[Holly Goodhead]

He he. I asked them to keep things private the last time I was banned.

Yes. I have noticed that Jeremy's supporters are getting more abusive. Even Numug or whatever his name is did today,  after he created a thread with a made up police quote.

I have been reporting each abusive post to the moderators. But answered back to an  unprovoked abusive post today (in one post) and received an instant ban ! The problem is all the moderators are Jeremy or former Jeremy supporters. Anyway have learnt not to respond, just to report abusive posts.

Cardio and weights.

Well there is dispute over weather Neville said 'please come over'. But I cannot see any other reason why Neville would call Jeremy apart from wanting him to come over.

Well they didn't broadcast it but it was fairly obvious    I think its a younger crowd on Red and all the old fogies on Blue.  Why not hang out here?

I think I should be a mod on Blue what do you think?  Could work well as although I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ bizarrely I tend to get on better with posters who think he's guilty  &%+((£ 

Was the thread title made up?  Yes and no?  EP did say to MM we know you called GH from WHF?  They did say it but it was untrue in that they were unable to confirm.  I guess Nugnug could have wrapped some quotations marks around it. 

EP also told JB during his police interviews that they knew SC had been murdered that was a lie too.  They might have thought it but as the pathologist has always maintained it is not possible to say whether SC took her own life or was murdered.

I think these were tactics the police used to check for reactions and to break interviewees down in that era.  An era which has seen a lot of high profile MoJ's.  Perhaps with more to come!

As I said in my previous post perhaps NB just wanted to get a distress call out and thought JB was the quickest and surest way of doing it.  If JB is telling the truth then it seems NB either abandoned the call (left handset off cradle on kitchen work top) or was cut off.  Either way I don't think he finished off what he wanted to say.  Perhaps he wanted JB to phone EP.  Or call out doctors as Freddie did.  Sadly we will never know. 

[adam]

Well they didn't broadcast it but it was fairly obvious    I think its a younger crowd on Red and all the old fogies on Blue.  Why not hang out here?

I think I should be a mod on Blue what do you think?  Could work well as although I believe JB is the victim of a MoJ bizarrely I tend to get on better with posters who think he's guilty  &%+((£ 

Was the thread title made up?  Yes and no?  EP did say to MM we know you called GH from WHF?  They did say it but it was untrue in that they were unable to confirm.  I guess Nugnug could have wrapped some quotations marks around it. 

EP also told JB during his police interviews that they knew SC had been murdered that was a lie too.  They might have thought it but as the pathologist has always maintained it is not possible to say whether SC took her own life or was murdered.

I think these were tactics the police used to check for reactions and to break interviewees down in that era.  An era which has seen a lot of high profile MoJ's.  Perhaps with more to come!

As I said in my previous post perhaps NB just wanted to get a distress call out and thought JB was the quickest and surest way of doing it.  If JB is telling the truth then it seems NB either abandoned the call (left handset off cradle on kitchen work top) or was cut off.  Either way I don't think he finished off what he wanted to say.  Perhaps he wanted JB to phone EP.  Or call out doctors as Freddie did.  Sadly we will never know.

Well Patti said she was going to suggest a short term ban for me. I have not been on the site since.

Neville just wanted to make a distress call to Jeremy. That is a new one. Perhaps Neville could have used his time to better effect.

[adam]

I have amended this thread post. There are now 40 reasons.

[Holly Goodhead]

I have amended this thread post. There are now 40 reasons.

Only 40!?  I'm sorry but I didn't notice how many you previously had    Have you added them at the end or are they inter-mingling?

The problem I have is that if NB phoned JB and said "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun" and it wasn't preceded by "Please come over" then it makes the phone call less clear and could account for his dithering.

Thread created 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5723.msg202984#msg202984

[adam]

Having read up on the case, I do chuckle when I think of Neville ringing Jeremy at 3am. After Sheila had 'gone crazy and got the gun'.

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Having read up on the case, I do chuckle when I think of Neville ringing Jeremy at 3am. After Sheila had 'gone crazy and got the gun'.

 

So do you agree it seems unlikely NB said "Please come over"?

[adam]

It is surprising Neville didn't introduce himself - ' Jeremy it's dad'. I doubt he had idea who was ringing him at 3am.

[Holly Goodhead]

It is surprising Neville didn't introduce himself - ' Jeremy it's dad'. I doubt he had idea who was ringing him at 3am.

When someone is very familiar with the person they are phoning they don't usually introduce themselves?  A simple greeting by way of hi, hello etc is the norm, I think?

It's very disappointing that Geoffrey Rivlin QC appears to have accepted at trial "Please come over..." and didn't cross-examine PC West given that his WS contradicts with JB's, Malcom Bonnett's, AE's and PC Myall's whose WS's do not incl "Please come over...".  It would be easy to discredit PC West given that all concerned agreed he recorded the time of the call incorrectly.