Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Mr Gray]

Clever and amusing, but they're still going on about £350m a week, which was debunked years ago.

As it happens, though, Deborah Meaden is no fan of Brexit by any stretch of the imagination.
https://twitter.com/DeborahMeaden

Just been listening to Douglas Rees, Mogg and according to him we were offered a Canada style deal last year

[Carana]

Just been listening to Douglas Rees, Mogg and according to him we were offered a Canada style deal last year

Hmmm. From what I've read recently, it wasn't the UK that was offered such a deal, but GB.

I changed the last bit, it wasn't that they'd forgotten Ireland, but the ++ bit wasn't acceptable.

[Carana]

Sad to see the European Medicines Agency taking down the 28 flags...

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1088844259934064640

[Sunny]

are you quite confident that in the event of a no deal Brexit there will only be positives and no negatives for the country in the first few years following?

Of course not but I am not confident that in the event that we remain there will only be positives and no negatives.

I see more and more European integration intended regardless of the wishes of the individuals living in Europe.  A European Army, European bank setting countries budgets...where will this stop?   IMO it will stop when we have one massive unweildy Federation of Europe which will be ruled by one group of unelected people. There will be no need for Westminster, Holyrood etc as they will merely be provincial district capitals within this large group.  Something like the Soviet Union was and just as unnacountable.

I have heard on the news several times in the last few days ministers from other European countries say there will be no negociation on the backstop because Michel Barnier won't negociate. This was from people who wanted to give a little more so a deal would be achieved.

Anyone know if Michel Barnier was elected by anyone?  He wasn't..... yet he is making decisions about our future.


This is why I decided I don't like the Europe we have and am seriously concerned about the Europe we appear to be getting.

Incidentally I would ask if we have any Scottish people here who voted for independence whether they also voted to Remain.  Carana doesn't appear to want to reply to me but I would appreciate her input as I find her posts very interesting and well thought out.

[Carana]

Of course not but I am not confident that in the event that we remain there will only be positives and no negatives.

I see more and more European integration intended regardless of the wishes of the individuals living in Europe.  A European Army, European bank setting countries budgets...where will this stop?   IMO it will stop when we have one massive unweildy Federation of Europe which will be ruled by one group of unelected people. There will be no need for Westminster, Holyrood etc as they will merely be provincial district capitals within this large group.  Something like the Soviet Union was and just as unnacountable.

I have heard on the news several times in the last few days ministers from other European countries say there will be no negociation on the backstop because Michel Barnier won't negociate. This was from people who wanted to give a little more so a deal would be achieved.

Anyone know if Michel Barnier was elected by anyone?  He wasn't..... yet he is making decisions about our future.


This is why I decided I don't like the Europe we have and am seriously concerned about the Europe we appear to be getting.

Incidentally I would ask if we have any Scottish people here who voted for independence whether they also voted to Remain.  Carana doesn't appear to want to reply to me but I would appreciate her input as I find her posts very interesting and well thought out.

Thanks for you compliment, ;) but I did reply to you just further up or on the previous page.

As I suggested in that, try reading Ivan Rogers speech, for what it's worth. He touches on your concern about a federalist Europe.

[Carana]

I used to have diagrams of the various main bodies of the EU, what they do, who is elected versus appointed, or nominated then elected, and the different types of voting systems, which I can't find for the moment.

This brochure is quite helpful, I find.
https://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/9a6a89dc-4ed7-4bb9-a9f7-53d7f1fb1dae

[Venturi Swirl]

No it wasn't, but it's worth remembering that neither option is guaranteed to be easy. The voters have tried being in the EU and disliked it enough to vote to leave. It might be the best thing the UK ever did, it might be a disaster.

What seems clear to me is that those predicting disaster often have a vested interest in remaining in the EU. What might suit them or their business interests may not suit the rest of the population. What they think is best for the country may only be best for them. I don't know the answers and I don't know which commentators are truly putting the UK and it's people before their own interests.

And vice versa.

[Venturi Swirl]

Sad to see the European Medicines Agency taking down the 28 flags...

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1088844259934064640

900 jobs lost in the UK as the move to the Netherlands.

[Venturi Swirl]

Of course not but I am not confident that in the event that we remain there will only be positives and no negatives.

I see more and more European integration intended regardless of the wishes of the individuals living in Europe.  A European Army, European bank setting countries budgets...where will this stop?   IMO it will stop when we have one massive unweildy Federation of Europe which will be ruled by one group of unelected people. There will be no need for Westminster, Holyrood etc as they will merely be provincial district capitals within this large group.  Something like the Soviet Union was and just as unnacountable.

I have heard on the news several times in the last few days ministers from other European countries say there will be no negociation on the backstop because Michel Barnier won't negociate. This was from people who wanted to give a little more so a deal would be achieved.

Anyone know if Michel Barnier was elected by anyone?  He wasn't..... yet he is making decisions about our future.


This is why I decided I don't like the Europe we have and am seriously concerned about the Europe we appear to be getting.

Incidentally I would ask if we have any Scottish people here who voted for independence whether they also voted to Remain.  Carana doesn't appear to want to reply to me but I would appreciate her input as I find her posts very interesting and well thought out.

Project Fear, leaver style.  Michel Barnier didn’t decide we should leave the EU so what do you mean exactly?

[Venturi Swirl]

This from Janice Turner in today’s Times sums up my position exactly (apart from I’m not a Labour member):

“I find, for the first time in my life, that I can’t convey what I want politically, only what I don’t want. Not a second referendum (less than a landslide and it won’t end the matter); not a Jeremy Corbyn government (though I’m a Labour member still); not a May government (but her likely Tory successors are worse). Not the Norway option (really, what is the point?). Neither a no-deal exit nor a nine-month delay, dragging this horror show into summer. I’m not thrilled about leaving but I don’t believe we can stay. I envy the inflexible zealots on both sides: at least they have goals. I want, what? To turn back time?”

[Sunny]

Project Fear, leaver style.  Michel Barnier didn’t decide we should leave the EU so what do you mean exactly?

It is quite simple VS. The UK population using a democratic referendum decided to leave the EU,  Michel Barnier has had no democratic election putting him in charge of making decisions that will affect millions of EU and UK citizens and yet he is in charge.

Where is the democracy in that?

[Venturi Swirl]

It is quite simple VS. The UK population using a democratic referendum decided to leave the EU,  Michel Barnier has had no democratic election putting him in charge of making decisions that will affect millions of EU and UK citizens and yet he is in charge.

Where is the democracy in that?

Michel Barnier is in charge of Brexit negotiations a position which he wouldn’t be in if we hadn’t decided to leave the EU.  If we really were controlled by unelected EU bureacrats presumably we wouldn’t be in the situation we currently find ourselves in.

[Venturi Swirl]

It is quite simple VS. The UK population using a democratic referendum decided to leave the EU,  Michel Barnier has had no democratic election putting him in charge of making decisions that will affect millions of EU and UK citizens and yet he is in charge.

Where is the democracy in that?

Perhaps you might like to read this, or perhaps you prefer to keep on spouting that old hackneyed phrase without thought.
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/14/does-it-make-sense-to-refer-to-eu-officials-as-unelected-bureaucrats

[Venturi Swirl]

And then there’s this
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/european-laws-are-made-by-unelected-bureaucrats/

[Sunny]

Michel Barnier is in charge of Brexit negotiations a position which he wouldn’t be in if we hadn’t decided to leave the EU.  If we really were controlled by unelected EU bureacrats presumably we wouldn’t be in the situation we currently find ourselves in.

It has taken over 40 years to have an EU referendum in the UK, all the while the EU has changed from that which existed at the time of the previous one.  David Cameron regrets making a referendum an election pledge.   He wanted to stay in Europe and maintain the status quo.  The people did not. It is not the fault of leave voters that Theresa May (a remainer) made such a hash of negociations, nor that there is an unelected individual in charge on the EU side.

I gather you also voted remain VS as I did.  I have regretted my choice, perhaps one day you will too.