Author Topic: Brexit has well and truly begun!  (Read 285043 times)

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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1185 on: February 17, 2019, 07:20:19 AM »
Job seekers.. Tax credits... Child benefit... Social housing... Cameron wanted them all limited ..and I think that was quite a reasonable request

Took a while to find this again.

In 2015-16, EEA nationals paid £15.5 billion more Income Tax and National
Insurance than they took out in tax credits and Child Benefit.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9334.msg496925#msg496925

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1186 on: February 17, 2019, 07:21:08 AM »
I had to look up this Tier 2 visa thing to work in the UK.

NHS urges easing UK visa rules for non-EU medical recruits
Employers join campaign after applications from Europe dry up following Brexit vote

(...)

   The visa cap has hit the NHS particularly hard because the points-based system sorts applicants partly according to their expected salary, with the minimum fluctuating according the number of excess applicants and their points ratings. The lowest eligible salary in January was £46,000, according to the Home Office.

Many would-be immigrant doctors would earn too little to qualify. The University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust has said it has had 18 applicants rejected because of the issue.

https://www.ft.com/content/5f80cdf0-0dba-11e8-8eb7-42f857ea9f09

This dates from 2017, so I'm not sure whether it's still the case or not.

NHS nursing: Up to 40,000 posts unfilled

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) estimates that the NHS in England has as many as 40,000 unfilled posts. It's now calling for staffing levels to be guaranteed in law.

The Conservatives say there are thousands more nurses on the wards of acute hospitals in England.

But the chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, Janet Davies, says the situation is unacceptable.

    14 May 2017
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-39913481/nhs-nursing-up-to-40000-posts-unfilled

It's a, shame we can't train our own medical staff... My eldest is a doctor but he's gone to Australia ...

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1187 on: February 17, 2019, 07:27:31 AM »
Took a while to find this again.

In 2015-16, EEA nationals paid £15.5 billion more Income Tax and National
Insurance than they took out in tax credits and Child Benefit.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9334.msg496925#msg496925


From your link...

The resulting estimates suggested that the net fiscal impact of immigrants was negative (-£1 billion for 1999-2000 and -£5 billion for 2003-2004). Alternative estimates allocating all children of mixed couples to the immigrant group show the fiscal cost of migrants to be much higher (around -£3.8 billion in 1999-2000).

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1188 on: February 17, 2019, 07:31:19 AM »
You tell me... I'm simply quoting from the BBC article... I watched the programme and Cameron was snubbed by the EU.... His treatment was, awful

The manifesto also pledged to "end the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits at all", adding that "if jobseekers have not found a job within six months, they will be required to leave"....whats wrong with taht

it's not really a "law", but a directive (i.e., the broad objective).


Article 7

Right of residence for more than three months

1.  All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they:

(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or

(c)
 

— are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and

— have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence; or

(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).

2.  The right of residence provided for in paragraph 1 shall extend to family members who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen in the host Member State, provided that such Union citizen satisfies the conditions referred to in paragraph 1(a), (b) or (c).

3.  For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who is no longer a worker or self-employed person shall retain the status of worker or self-employed person in the following circumstances:

(a) he/she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident;

(b) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed for more than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office;

(c) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after completing a fixed-term employment contract of less than a year or after having become involuntarily unemployed during the first twelve months and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office. In this case, the status of worker shall be retained for no less than six months;

(d) he/she embarks on vocational training. Unless he/she is involuntarily unemployed, the retention of the status of worker shall require the training to be related to the previous employment.

4.  By way of derogation from paragraphs 1(d) and 2 above, only the spouse, the registered partner provided for in Article 2(2)(b) and dependent children shall have the right of residence as family members of a Union citizen meeting the conditions under 1(c) above. Article 3(2) shall apply to his/her dependent direct relatives in the ascending lines and those of his/her spouse or registered partner.



https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02004L0038-20110616

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 08:02:33 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1189 on: February 17, 2019, 07:36:40 AM »

From your link...

The resulting estimates suggested that the net fiscal impact of immigrants was negative (-£1 billion for 1999-2000 and -£5 billion for 2003-2004). Alternative estimates allocating all children of mixed couples to the immigrant group show the fiscal cost of migrants to be much higher (around -£3.8 billion in 1999-2000).

Does that refer to immigrants as a whole, or to EU ones?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1190 on: February 17, 2019, 08:23:01 AM »

Just read something interesting.  The 15 year old school girl who ran away to play with ISIS is a native of Tower Hamlets and has a right to expect Tower Hamlets to house and support her.
Well, so am I.  I was born there, albeit when it was still Stepney.  So if I get kicked out of France due to Brexit then Tower Hamlets will have to house and support me.
So that's all right then.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1191 on: February 17, 2019, 08:24:13 AM »
Whatever the veracity of the figures Brexit is not going to stop immigration, if anything it will grow post Brexit if the article I posted earlier is correct.

Brexit would allow our government to decide who gets which benefits, when and why. At the moment EU law forces us to pay child benefits and child tax credits for children who have never set foot in this country. A figure of up to £36 million oer year has been quoted. Two thirds of that money goes to Poland.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/child-benefit-payments-outside-uk

There are also 900,000 Polish-born people living in the UK. Those with children will also get the benefits, along with healthcare, education ad social housing.. A total of 900,000 UK citizens live long-term in other EU countries and I'm pretty sure they're not in Poland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_United_Kingdom

So the UK appears to be saving Poland a lot of money, as are other prosperous EU countries. I don't have a problem with these arrangements if;

The UK really does need these people to work here.
The UK didn't keep using 'austerity' as a reason for making the poor poorer.
 

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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1192 on: February 17, 2019, 08:24:53 AM »
Another Brexiteer hypocrite and scoundrel


“Britain’s richest man, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, who was knighted less than a year ago for his services to business and investment, has been planning to avoid up to £4bn in tax after switching his home and his fortune to Monaco.

The Sunday Times can disclose that the prominent Brexiteer, who built up the chemicals giant Ineos, has been working with the accountant PwC on the tax avoidance plan. This would see him and senior executives Andy Currie and John Reece legally share between £1bn and £10bn tax-free, depriving the Treasury of between £400m and £4bn”.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1193 on: February 17, 2019, 08:29:47 AM »
Just read something interesting.  The 15 year old school girl who ran away to play with ISIS is a native of Tower Hamlets and has a right to expect Tower Hamlets to house and support her.
Well, so am I.  I was born there, albeit when it was still Stepney.  So if I get kicked out of France due to Brexit then Tower Hamlets will have to house and support me.
So that's all right then.
I think moving from your idyll in France to Tower Hamlets may come as a nasty shock to the system but good to know you have options...
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1194 on: February 17, 2019, 08:33:19 AM »
Brexit would allow our government to decide who gets which benefits, when and why. At the moment EU law forces us to pay child benefits and child tax credits for children who have never set foot in this country. A figure of up to £36 million oer year has been quoted. Two thirds of that money goes to Poland.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/child-benefit-payments-outside-uk

There are also 900,000 Polish-born people living in the UK. Those with children will also get the benefits, along with healthcare, education ad social housing.. A total of 900,000 UK citizens live long-term in other EU countries and I'm pretty sure they're not in Poland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_United_Kingdom

So the UK appears to be saving Poland a lot of money, as are other prosperous EU countries. I don't have a problem with these arrangements if;

The UK really does need these people to work here.
The UK didn't keep using 'austerity' as a reason for making the poor poorer.
 
As Carana has already pointed out, immigrants from the EU already more than pay for themselves (to the tune of £15 billion) so what’s the problem?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Eleanor

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1195 on: February 17, 2019, 08:36:14 AM »
I think moving from your idyll in France to Tower Hamlets may come as a nasty shock to the system but good to know you have options...

I was thinking more of the laughs I would have getting it implemented.  But then I could sub let the house or flat for twice the rent and then sneak back into France unnoticed and just keep my head down.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1196 on: February 17, 2019, 08:43:50 AM »
How accurate are the figures...


CHARITYFull Fact
MENU
Home Europe EU immigration
EU immigration to the UK: what the National Insurance numbers reveal
Published: 12th May 2016

Earlier this year, there was controversy over whether our immigration estimates have been missing large numbers of immigrants from the rest of the EU, with some outlets accusing officials of a “cover up”.

Routine immigration estimates in February suggested around 257,000 nationals from other EU countries migrated to the UK in the year to September 2015.

But another set of figures showed that 655,000 National Insurance (NI) numbers had been issued to EU nationals over the same period. NI numbers are allocated to foreign nationals looking to work or claim benefits in the UK.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

What's not clear is which country (home or host) is responsible.

I haven't looked into the "job-seeker" benefit system.

However, at least in terms of medical insurance, if I were to move to France without a job, I'd have to prove that I already had medical coverage.

What normally happens, AFAIK, is that you register with your host country, you get the equivalent of an NHS card, and your home country reimburses any cost.

I had read that an EU citizen could claim e.g. unemployment benefit due by the home country, which is in reality  transferred to the host one. I'm not 100% certain of that, but I think that was the gist of what I'd read.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1197 on: February 17, 2019, 08:44:47 AM »
I was thinking more of the laughs I would have getting it implemented.  But then I could sub let the house or flat for twice the rent and then sneak back into France unnoticed and just keep my head down.
Haha, good luck with that one!
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1198 on: February 17, 2019, 08:45:13 AM »
Another Brexiteer hypocrite and scoundrel


“Britain’s richest man, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, who was knighted less than a year ago for his services to business and investment, has been planning to avoid up to £4bn in tax after switching his home and his fortune to Monaco.

The Sunday Times can disclose that the prominent Brexiteer, who built up the chemicals giant Ineos, has been working with the accountant PwC on the tax avoidance plan. This would see him and senior executives Andy Currie and John Reece legally share between £1bn and £10bn tax-free, depriving the Treasury of between £400m and £4bn”.

Don't we actually need more hypocrites and scoudrels like him... How many jobs has he created....how many people iwe their livlihood to his company

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit has well and truly begun!
« Reply #1199 on: February 17, 2019, 08:50:10 AM »
Another Brexiteer hypocrite and scoundrel


“Britain’s richest man, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, who was knighted less than a year ago for his services to business and investment, has been planning to avoid up to £4bn in tax after switching his home and his fortune to Monaco.

The Sunday Times can disclose that the prominent Brexiteer, who built up the chemicals giant Ineos, has been working with the accountant PwC on the tax avoidance plan. This would see him and senior executives Andy Currie and John Reece legally share between £1bn and £10bn tax-free, depriving the Treasury of between £400m and £4bn”.

He still has the right to an opinion, just like anyone else who uses tax avoidance measures.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
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