Brexit has well and truly begun!

[Venturi Swirl]

They have cheap flights- bon voyage! My brother lives there...

Your friend touched on a valid point.  Majority voted to leave!

I’m there now.  Will I be able to move here permanently and work, post Brexit?  If so, count me in!

[John]

I just had to steal this from a friend’s facebook page:

“It's mad that we're heading for the most extreme and damaging Brexit after a slim majority of 52 vs 48. Imagine if remain had won 52 vs 48 and that was taken as a mandate for some extreme version of remain; join the Euro, demand everyone speak German as a first language, wine and cheese for dinner every day, compulsory siestas, cannabis cafes on every street. Any complaints and we'd just be all "Nein, es ist der Wille des Volkes".

I think I've defeated my own point here actually, it sounds amazing”.

About time we exited this European conspiracy to create a federal Europe. Generations in the future will thank those of us who had the bottle to do so.  Be in no doubt though, the minute we do leave will signal the breakup of the EU as we currently know it.  I wonder who will be next, Spain or Italy?

[Venturi Swirl]

About time we exited this European conspiracy to create a federal Europe. Generations in the future will thank those of us who had the bottle to do so.  Be in no doubt though, the minute we do leave will signal the breakup of the EU as we currently know it.  I wonder who will be next, Spain or Italy?

Neither country will have the appetite to go through the absolute fiasco thst we have been through in the last three years, IMO. 

[Baz]

About time we exited this European conspiracy to create a federal Europe. Generations in the future will thank those of us who had the bottle to do so.  Be in no doubt though, the minute we do leave will signal the breakup of the EU as we currently know it.  I wonder who will be next, Spain or Italy?

The truth is that no matter how confidentiality you state your beliefs that Brexit will be praised by future generations you have no way of knowing. Future generations may well blame those that were silly enough to vote for isolationism over co-operation. The current state of the pound, for instance, doesn't bode well. But we will just have to wait and see, unless you're psychic?

[Baz]

At least he understands it will damage our democracy if he desn't deliver what the people voted for.

I'm genuinely fascinated by those that declare that nothing is more important than the democratic process and that are up in arms at the prospect of the referendum not being implemented (despite referendums being advisory, not to mention all the other problematic issues with this paticular one!) but are not up in arms that a new Prime Minister was just given the keys to the country without 'we the people' being consulted. Why the absolute insistence on democracy for one referendum but not for who actually runs the country?

[Venturi Swirl]

I'm genuinely fascinated by those that declare that nothing is more important than the democratic process and that are up in arms at the prospect of the referendum not being implemented (despite referendums being advisory, not to mention all the other problematic issues with this paticular one!) but are not up in arms that a new Prime Minister was just given the keys to the country without 'we the people' being consulted. Why the absolute insistence on democracy for one referendum but not for who actually runs the country?

Quite.  The future of this country has been determined by less than 200,000 mostly white middle-aged, middle class males.  Just like the good old days in fact!

[Miss Taken Identity]

I'm genuinely fascinated by those that declare that nothing is more important than the democratic process and that are up in arms at the prospect of the referendum not being implemented (despite referendums being advisory, not to mention all the other problematic issues with this paticular one!) but are not up in arms that a new Prime Minister was just given the keys to the country without 'we the people' being consulted. Why the absolute insistence on democracy for one referendum but not for who actually runs the country?

Hi Baz fear not, Just to inform you - the public never vote for a leader,(that is done by party members) they vote for a party! Leaders come and go, policies change...life goes on.

[Venturi Swirl]

Hi Baz fear not, Just to inform you - the public never vote for a leader,(that is done by party members) they vote for a party! Leaders come and go, policies change...life goes on.

The public vote for a party, in large part based on what their leader is like and has promised.  I know many Labour supporters who will never vote for Labour again until Corbyn is kicked out, for example.

[Baz]

Hi Baz fear not, Just to inform you - the public never vote for a leader,(that is done by party members) they vote for a party! Leaders come and go, policies change...life goes on.

I am fully aware that the public don't get to vote for our leader thanks. In fact that was basically the point of my post. How barely democratic that process is.

Oh and just to inform you... the public do not vote for a party, they vote for an MP.

[G-Unit]

I'm genuinely fascinated by those that declare that nothing is more important than the democratic process and that are up in arms at the prospect of the referendum not being implemented (despite referendums being advisory, not to mention all the other problematic issues with this paticular one!) but are not up in arms that a new Prime Minister was just given the keys to the country without 'we the people' being consulted. Why the absolute insistence on democracy for one referendum but not for who actually runs the country?

Hello Baz.  The people of the UK were asked to vote on Brexit, and a majority voted for it. A democratic process with a result. Most of the UK's political parties agreed to implement the result of that vote, but they haven't. Democracy denied. Honourable Members behaving dishonourably.

[Venturi Swirl]

Good on the voters of Brecon and Radnorshire for rejecting Tory extremism and voting in a pro-remain MP.  How will Boris fare with a majority of one...?

[Carana]

A  little background on Farage's World4Brexit opaque outfit...

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/mp-demands-investigation-into-farages-us-dark-money-pro-brexit-campaign-group/

[Baz]

Hello Baz.  The people of the UK were asked to vote on Brexit, and a majority voted for it. A democratic process with a result. Most of the UK's political parties agreed to implement the result of that vote, but they haven't. Democracy denied. Honourable Members behaving dishonourably.

There really is no need to be that dramatic, democracy has not been denied. The plan is still to leave, it just hasn't happened as quickly a some would like. It's taken so long because they want to find a way to leave the EU whilst having as little a detrimental impact on our economy (and our Union!) as possible. Which makes sense to me.

But that really wasn't the point I was making anyway. I was asking why those like yourself that are up in arms about a perceived slight against their precious democracy do not seem to give a damn that a new Prime Minister and government can be put in power without a mandate from the general public.

[Venturi Swirl]

An excellent comment under an article about Brexit in today’s Times

I guess I just don't understand.  You can talk about stuff 'in a spirit of friendliness' but the logic of the situation is wholly against the UK.

If we leave the EU we will no longer be part of the EU's political, legal, insurance and logistical framework.  For both ourselves and for the EU there would be divergence.  A border would automatically form to express this!  Most of the EU's border is sea luckily but where it is not (the notorious Polish-Ukrainian border!) it is a nightmare.  If we are not in the customs union and the single market then this has to be expressed as a hard border.

But we can't have a hard border because of the sheer bad luck that the EU/UK border runs across a sensitive island with an international treaty about there not being a hard border.  This has been made clear by the EU and by the USA and by rational people in the UK.  Nobody imagined the UK would be thick enough to leave the EU so no provision was made for such a self-hating change.  Ireland is not, as many Brexit people seem to believe, a sort of 'optional country' that should go away or grow up or whatever.  It is part of the vastly larger EU.

There is therefore a limit on how separate we can in practice be from the EU.  This was expressed in May's deal.  May's deal got us out within this external constraint.  It is also helpful to us as the resulting alignment stops us absurdly 'crashing out'.  In practice almost nobody at all in the UK who is sane cares about this level of alignment.  It formalizes what is there anyway: that as an offshore set of islands next to the rest of Europe that is still in the EU, the UK will not call the shots!  But that is what we voted for.

The UK government might as well declare that we can in fact drink saltw..er or hold our breath indefinitely.

If we leave on 'no deal' in this context (and with the EU, Japan and the USA all saying this would be unacceptable) then the entire government should be put on trial for stupidity as much as for treason.  We will still wind up doing what the EU tells us, but not as a serious partner but as a laughed-at supplicant.

[Carana]

Dominic Cummimgs:
https://news.sky.com/story/dominic-cummings-why-johnsons-top-adviser-would-relish-cutting-dreadful-mps-from-brexit-11779494