Author Topic: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.  (Read 17856 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2018, 09:54:52 AM »
You missed the point, the family of the defendant originated the story of the Camper Van.

So?  They were witnesses to it. 

Despite it being brought to the publics knowledge, did you ever see anyone say that they were lying ?

Offline sadie

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2018, 09:58:26 AM »
So?  They were witnesses to it. 

Despite it being brought to the publics knowledge, did you ever see anyone say that they were lying ?

Why shouldn't they report it, if they felt the PJ were ignoring it ?  Ignoring it in order to drop the blame on Leonor and Joao?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2018, 12:14:49 PM »
So?  They were witnesses to it. 

Despite it being brought to the publics knowledge, did you ever see anyone say that they were lying ?

You make an assumption that they were telling the truth.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2018, 12:34:23 PM »
Various reports were in a number of places before they were wiped.  And many on here will have seen them.
The family have every right to report what they saw, and to keep their names out of the papers.
 
They may not have the same surname as Cipriano or Guereira ( Joanas blood fathers name, IIRC) or Silva .... and prefer not to be associated in the publics eye with the dreadful things, not proven, pumped out about their relatives Leonor and Joao Cipriano.

Being aware of the way that the local PJ operate, they probably would be in fear of the Police knowing that they had released the facts about the van.

How do you think Amaral and Cristovao would have reacted to having their erm..carefully sorted theory undermined ?

Hogwash Sadie. When will you ever accept the reality that the Cipriano duo are guilty by their own free admission?  Continually inventing excuses for this miserable pair does your own credibility no favours imo.

The accepted fact that Leonor was beaten around the head with a large cardboard tube or that Joćo Cipriano was roughed up a bit is neither here nor there.  It makes no difference to the confessions.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:47:55 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2018, 12:37:31 PM »
Hogwash Sadie. When will you ever accept the reality that the Cipriano duo are guilty by their own free admission?  Continually inventing excuses for this miserable pair does your own credibility no favours imo.

Nothing Free about it.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2018, 12:50:28 PM »
2:48pm UK, Monday May 12, 2008

ALEX WATTS, SKY NEWS ONLINE.

The family of a girl who vanished just seven miles from the Portuguese resort where Madeleine McCann disappeared are convinced the cases are connected. Joana was last seen near church

On the day of Madeleine's fifth birthday, Joana Cipriano's relatives have urged detectives to investigate links between the two disappearances - saying there are too many disturbing similarities for the evidence to be ignored.
Joana, eight, was sent to buy some groceries from a village store near her home in Figueira, at around 8pm on September 12, 2004. She bought a tin of tuna and some milk from the Ofelia store, and was last seen by a neighbour walking back near the village church, some 200 yards from her home. Joana never returned and, like the McCanns, her mother Leonor mounted a campaign to find her. Like them, she and her brother Joao became suspects.

The case, which ended with the pair being sentenced to 21 years, made Portuguese legal history - it was the first murder trial where a body was never found. Police officers are due to go on trial later this year for allegedly beating and torturing Leonor to make her confess. Joana's relatives told Sky News Online the pair are innocent and believe whoever took the girl is also behind Madeleine's disappearance, seven miles away in Praia da Luz. The family, who do not want to be named, said: "This sort of thing doesn't happen in Portugal - child abductions are very rare. Whoever took Joana took Madeleine too, the distance is too small. And the police ignored everything we told them, they just wanted to solve the case quickly. They didn't look at any of the things we told them about." They said the most crucial bit of evidence was a white and brown camper van, parked near Joana's home in the days before she was abducted.
The vehicle, with German number plates, disappeared around the time she vanished. They added: "There was a man living in there, but he hardly left the van. A week later the van was found abandoned in farmland in Praia da Luz. We told the police to investigate it, but they didn't listen to us."
She said the man had short, curly brown hair and was about 40 years old. A suspect in the Madeleine case, spotted acting suspiciously near the apartment where she vanished on May 3 last year, was described as between 35 and 40, with long, straggly hair.

A bit slow on the uptake there imo.
53 weeks plus to catch on is hardly the speed of greased lightning is it?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Angelo222

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2018, 01:38:43 PM »
Nothing Free about it.

She sent a letter via her lawyer admitting her part in it. If that isn't free I give up.  To clarify, Joćo admitted killing the girl and Leonor admitted to being culpable in the ruse which followed.  The only thing I personally disagree with was the sentencing. He should have got 20+ years for murder given that he had already served a sentence for attempted murder but the mother should have got less than 10 years and been paroled mid way.  Had she not lied at the beginning she would be a free woman by now but she did it to protect her monster of a brother.  None of this is Amaral's fault by the way, he did a good job in putting these two away.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 09:59:47 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2018, 01:59:16 PM »
She sent a letter via her lawyer admitting her part in it. If that isn't free I give up.  To clarify, Joćo admitted killing the girl and Leonor admitted to being culpable in the ruse which followed.  The only thing I personally disagree with was the sentencing. He should have got 20+ years for murder given that he had already served a sentence for attempted murder but the mother should have got less than 10 years and been paroled mid way.  Had she not lied at the beginning she would be a free woman by now but she did it to protect her monster of a brother.  None of this is Amaral's fault by the way, he did a good job in putting these two away.

You have a Cite for this letter?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:00:08 PM by Angelo222 »

Offline Carana

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2018, 02:23:28 PM »
She sent a letter via her lawyer admitting her part in it. If that isn't free I give up.  To clarify, Joćo admitted killing the girl and Leonor admitted to being culpable in the ruse which followed.  The only thing I personally disagree with was the sentencing. He should have got 20+ years for murder given that he had already served a sentence for attempted murder but the mother should have got less than 10 years and been paroled mid way.  Had she not lied at the beginning she would be a free woman by now but she did it to protect her mouth of a brother.  None of this is Amaral's fault by the way, he did a good job in putting these two away.

Hmmm. That lawyer...

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2018, 03:05:03 PM »
She sent a letter via her lawyer admitting her part in it. If that isn't free I give up.  To clarify, Joćo admitted killing the girl and Leonor admitted to being culpable in the ruse which followed.  The only thing I personally disagree with was the sentencing. He should have got 20+ years for murder given that he had already served a sentence for attempted murder but the mother should have got less than 10 years and been paroled mid way.  Had she not lied at the beginning she would be a free woman by now but she did it to protect her mouth of a brother.  None of this is Amaral's fault by the way, he did a good job in putting these two away.

i think based on the fact there is no real evidence againsrt her apart from the confession supposedly beaten out of her...she may well be innocent
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:56:35 AM by Angelo222 »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2018, 03:17:39 PM »
She sent a letter via her lawyer admitting her part in it. If that isn't free I give up.  To clarify, Joćo admitted killing the girl and Leonor admitted to being culpable in the ruse which followed.  The only thing I personally disagree with was the sentencing. He should have got 20+ years for murder given that he had already served a sentence for attempted murder but the mother should have got less than 10 years and been paroled mid way.  Had she not lied at the beginning she would be a free woman by now but she did it to protect her mouth of a brother.  None of this is Amaral's fault by the way, he did a good job in putting these two away.

she was jailed for 20 yeras for a crime she may well not have committed. The only way she will be released early is to show remorse...admit to a crime she has not committed...there is your answer
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 04:38:38 AM by Robittybob1 »

Offline sadie

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2018, 06:19:44 PM »
She sent a letter via her lawyer admitting her part in it. If that isn't free I give up.  To clarify, Joćo admitted killing the girl and Leonor admitted to being culpable in the ruse which followed.  The only thing I personally disagree with was the sentencing. He should have got 20+ years for murder given that he had already served a sentence for attempted murder but the mother should have got less than 10 years and been paroled mid way.  Had she not lied at the beginning she would be a free woman by now but she did it to protect her mouth of a brother.  None of this is Amaral's fault by the way, he did a good job in putting these two away.

I never heard of this letter.

Could we have a cite please Angelo

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2018, 06:28:19 PM »
i think based on the fact there is no real evidence againsrt her apart from the confession supposedly beaten out of her...she may well be innocent

How do you know that?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 09:56:54 AM by Angelo222 »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2018, 06:42:07 PM »
How do you know that?
because I read the trial details when they were available....because it was discussed at length...there was no real evidence....it was claimed there was blood on the walls and the fridge...none was tested.....yet the proven facts stated joannas blood was found in the fridge.....the portuguese seem to think proven facts dont actually have to be proven

Offline Eleanor

Re: The Joana Cipriano case revisited.
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2018, 06:46:27 PM »
because I read the trial details when they were available....because it was discussed at length...there was no real evidence....it was claimed there was blood on the walls and the fridge...none was tested.....yet the proven facts stated joannas blood was found in the fridge.....the portuguese seem to think proven facts dont actually have to be proven

I suspect the fact that blood was found was enough.  Although we can't even be sure of that.