The McCann v Gonçalo Amaral libel trial as it happens.

[sadie]

What a load of rubbish. I'm very disappointed with your post. I had you down as an honest
poster. Oh well.

I did as well at one time.  I had loads of respect for Icabod .... but he went out of his/ her way to convince me that he wasn't worthy of my respect any more.

Sorry Icabod, but that is the truth

But you just said that you like "honest,  no-nonsense style of posting," so it wont offend, I feel sure.
 

[Lyall]

No she didn't.    And she was not left in charge.   All three children were left fast asleep and checked regularly.

If Madeline or Sean had cried for any length of time the night before then Rachel Oldfield would have heard them as she was in the next apartment and did not go out that night.   

If she had the TV on or music playing etc.?

[Lyall]

How do you know this, that Madeleine begged?
I thought the report is that Madeleine asked:
'Where were you last night when Sean and I cried?'

More than a report. The claim was just made again on Crimewatch.

[icabodcrane]

What a load of rubbish. I'm very disappointed with your post. I had you down as an honest
poster. Oh well.

I'm happy to disappoint you

shona expresses compassion  for the three year old that disappeared without trace ...  and some  contempt for the behaviour  of the parents who left her vulnerable

That's an understandable  point of view

[Benice]

If she had the TV on or music playing etc.?

If Mrs Fenn could hear a child crying from the floor above,  then I'm pretty sure Rachael would have heard prolonged crying from next door.     

[Benita]

If Mrs Fenn could hear a child crying from the floor above,  then I'm pretty sure Rachael would have heard prolonged crying from next door.   

so lyall shot herself in the foot ...priceless 

[Benice]

More than a report. The claim was just made again on Crimewatch.

Did it claim Madeleine BEGGED her mother not to leave her again?

[Lyall]

If Mrs Fenn could hear a child crying from the floor above,  then I'm pretty sure Rachael would have heard prolonged crying from next door.   

So if it was considered not to be that dramatic then, why was it mentioned to the police?

[Lyall]

so lyall shot herself in the foot ...priceless 

You think?

[Benita]

You think?

I don't think lyall I know!! ..how silly do you look now 

[Benice]

So if it was considered not to be that dramatic then, why was it mentioned to the police?

Because after Madeleine was abducted the McCanns wondered, with hindsight, whether it had any relevance to the abduction - just as Kate wondered whether the stain on Madeleine's pajamas, which she previously didn't consider sinister - could also have been relevant - and so she told the PJ about that too.

[icabodcrane]

Did it claim Madeleine BEGGED her mother not to leave her again?

Is that really something to play semantics with Benice  ?

A little girl,  according to her parents,  said that she had been crying the night before  (  having woken up alone and no-one came  ) 

...  and her parents' response  ?  ...  to go out again and leave her alone once more,  that very night

I don't make a big deal of the   'negligence'  thing  (  this case is bigger than that  )  but the  defence of that cavalier, and,  frankly,   rather callous behaviour,  astounds me

[sadie]

Is that really something to play semantics with Benice  ?

A little girl,  according to her parents,  said that she had been crying the night before  (  having woken up alone and no-one came  ) 

...  and her parents' response  ?  ...  to go out again and leave her alone once more,  that very night

I don't make a big deal of the   'negligence'  thing  (  this case is bigger than that  )  but the  defence of that cavalier, and,  frankly,   rather callous behaviour,  astounds me

Icabod, you are wrong.

Words can make a big difference as you well know.  Propaganda creation.  Myths.

BEGGED stirs the heart, pulls at the heart strings and makes the Mccanns look really bad.  And that word was used to create nastiness for the Mccanns.    Let's be clear, they were NOT begged.  Just asked where they were.  Nothing more

[Benice]

Is that really something to play semantics with Benice  ?

A little girl,  according to her parents,  said that she had been crying the night before  (  having woken up alone and no-one came  ) 

...  and her parents' response  ?  ...  to go out again and leave her alone once more,  that very night

I don't make a big deal of the   'negligence'  thing  (  this case is bigger than that  )  but the  defence of that cavalier, and,  frankly,   rather callous behaviour,  astounds me

The whole reason why the McCanns didn't go into it further with Madeleine is because after saying it she went off happily to do something else.   So it was no big deal to her.   To say she 'begged' when she did no such thing is completely wrong.       Kate has said that after what happened she wishes she had taken more notice and quizzed her about it.     But hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it.

All our judgements and comments are made knowing that Madeleine disappeared that night.   The McCanns were looking at things from a completely different perspective because they had no way of seeing into the future.

The fact that they told the PJ about this incident is IMO a testament to their honesty, because they didn't have to tell them something which could reflect badly on themselves.  They could just as easily have said that Madeleine told them she had a bad dream about a man in her room or similar, if they simply wanted to let the PJ know that something may have happened the night before.   But they didn't.  They told the truth.

[icabodcrane]

Icabod, you are wrong.

Words can make a big difference as you well know.  Propaganda creation.  Myths.

BEGGED stirs the heart, pulls at the heart strings and makes the Mccanns look really bad.  And that word was used to create nastiness for the Mccanns.    Let's be clear, they were NOT begged.  Just asked where they were.  Nothing more

Are you serious  ?

A little girl  ...  a pre-school   infant,   'asks'  mummy and daddy why they didn't come when she woke up and was crying

No matter that the  reason   they didn't come was because they weren't  THERE  ...  because they were out for the evening with their mates

All that matters to you  is that the infant didn't  'BEG' ? 

Do you ever ...  for a moment ...  consider that what happened to that little girl  is more important than the rabid defense of her parents  ?