Author Topic: So what's next in the libel trial saga?  (Read 261226 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #345 on: December 10, 2014, 04:18:29 PM »
My understanding is that the McCanns are suing Amaral for libel damages, that they have done so and have been encouraged to do so (perhaps?) despite the fact that the book was adjudged not to be libellous under Portuguese Law (don't ask me why, that's just PT law for you,) an action they took at a time when they were desperate to get the case into their daughter's disappearance re-looked at by the authorities in Portugal.  They knew that all the while the Portuguese were convinced that Amaral's version of events was correct that they didn't stand a hope in hell of this ever happening, so this was their best chance to get people in PT to re-think the case, to be more vigilant to the fact that Madeleine may still be alive and not so certain that she is dead (as Amaral has always vigorously campaigned).

One can understand why they took this action, but I think it was high risk, and now we have moved on, the PT authorities ARE looking at alternative theories to the 'parents dunnit' theory and the Met are on board too,  so victory in this libel case is now less essential to them to the prospect of resolving the case of missing Madeleine.  Their likely defeat will give the "sceptics" much to rejoice over, but the thrill of victory and the opportunity for huge amounts of online gloating is pretty much all it will give them.  Their ultimate fantasy of seeing the McCanns locked up will still be as far away and unlikely to be realised as ever.

Excellent summation, Alfred;  I freely admit to puzzlement over the conduct of this case, how it could have dragged on for so long is beyond me.  If this is the norm for cases in Portugal, no wonder they were so keen to overhaul the system.

IMO Madeleine's family are probably much less concerned about the outcome of this case than they are about the possibility of at last finding out what happened to their daughter.

They have indeed achieved the impossible of having Madeleine's case reopened with both Portuguese and British law enforcement conducting inquiries.
In succeeding in doing that they have indeed already won a victory as it demonstrates without a shadow of doubt that Dr Amaral's thesis is considered to be wrong in its entirety.

It remains to be seen what the learned judge decides, but Alfred's posts sums up exactly where any decision now rates in the sphere of today's events.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #346 on: December 10, 2014, 04:25:43 PM »
If costs are awarded to Amaral I presume those will be coming from the fund ?

If the McCanns simply wanted to stop the book being read why not just stop at an injunction ? Why the need for damages ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #347 on: December 10, 2014, 04:27:07 PM »
If costs are awarded to Amaral I presume those will be coming from the fund ?

If the McCanns simply wanted to stop the book being read why not just stop at an injunction ? Why the need for damages ?

they want to stop amaral profiting from the book

Offline Carana

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #348 on: December 10, 2014, 04:29:22 PM »
If costs are awarded to Amaral I presume those will be coming from the fund ?

If the McCanns simply wanted to stop the book being read why not just stop at an injunction ? Why the need for damages ?

The injunction was (as is often the case) to prevent further alleged damage, pending the trial proper.


Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #349 on: December 10, 2014, 04:30:33 PM »
If costs are awarded to Amaral I presume those will be coming from the fund ?

If the McCanns simply wanted to stop the book being read why not just stop at an injunction ? Why the need for damages ?
Did the McCanns succeed in stopping the book being read?  Prior to the case being re-opened damages would have been useful in keeping the private investigation going, now not so much.  And then there is the principle.  Amaral hurt them, hurt the prospects of Madeleine being found (pretty much from Day 1) and profited from the hurt he caused so why shouldn't he be made to pay? I'd probably do exactly the same in their position.

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #350 on: December 10, 2014, 04:33:11 PM »
The injunction was (as is often the case) to prevent further alleged damage, pending the trial proper.

If their main purpose was to stop the alleged damage to the search for their daughter why not simply have the book injuncted ? Why the need to punish Amaral financially ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #351 on: December 10, 2014, 04:33:21 PM »
Excellent summation, Alfred;  I freely admit to puzzlement over the conduct of this case, how it could have dragged on for so long is beyond me.  If this is the norm for cases in Portugal, no wonder they were so keen to overhaul the system.

IMO Madeleine's family are probably much less concerned about the outcome of this case than they are about the possibility of at last finding out what happened to their daughter.

They have indeed achieved the impossible of having Madeleine's case reopened with both Portuguese and British law enforcement conducting inquiries.
In succeeding in doing that they have indeed already won a victory as it demonstrates without a shadow of doubt that Dr Amaral's thesis is considered to be wrong in its entirety.

It remains to be seen what the learned judge decides, but Alfred's posts sums up exactly where any decision now rates in the sphere of today's events.


Ah I see! I think; so the "libel" case was never about libel or damages it was a potential loss leader to raise awareness and have the archived investigation reopened?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 04:39:19 PM by Alice Purjorick »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #352 on: December 10, 2014, 04:37:32 PM »
If their main purpose was to stop the alleged damage to the search for their daughter why not simply have the book injuncted ? Why the need to punish Amaral financially ?

they want to stop amaral profiting from the book...and quite right they are too

Offline Mr Gray

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #353 on: December 10, 2014, 04:38:38 PM »

Ah I see! I think; so the case was never about libel or damages it was a potential loss leader to raise awareness and have the case reopened?

no..try reading the post again...slowly

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #354 on: December 10, 2014, 04:42:19 PM »
no..try reading the post again...slowly
Alas accuses others of putting words into his mouth and here he is doing exactly the same thing, the wee bezom.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #355 on: December 10, 2014, 04:46:30 PM »
no..try reading the post again...slowly
And?
It seems to me there is a bit of ground shifting going on "just in case", so if things go belly up in Lisbon it can presented as a win because the damages trial has now been superseded by events. That argument could have been applied over a year ago.
Just presenting a view from a different aspect. I am not saying it is right  8(>((
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline faithlilly

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #356 on: December 10, 2014, 04:48:28 PM »
they want to stop amaral profiting from the book...and quite right they are too

And if Amaral wins and the costs awarded against the McCanns ? Who pays for them ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #357 on: December 10, 2014, 05:01:32 PM »
And if Amaral wins and the costs awarded against the McCanns ? Who pays for them ?

Why would Amaral win?

He has the accused the McCanns of responsibility for Madeleine's death, concealing her body, fabricating an "abduction" and launching a fraudulent "appeal" in their daughter's name, and there is not a shred of evidence to support any of that.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 05:06:23 PM by ferryman »

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #358 on: December 10, 2014, 05:09:42 PM »
And if Amaral wins and the costs awarded against the McCanns ? Who pays for them ?

This may help

1. What are the costs of legal proceedings and who normally has to pay them?
The costs of legal proceedings relate to the payment of costs and the fees of the legal representative (barrister, junior barrister or solicitor);

Costs include court fees and charges;
Court fees cover the payment by Court users for the public service of the administration of Justice; the amounts are set on the basis of a schedule which takes as a reference the monetary value of the case; in the case of appeals, the losing party pays the costs; incidental costs are separately taxed but depend on the value of the action;
Charges consist of the repayment of expenses advanced by the Court, payments to any organisations to cover the cost of certificates not produced officially by the Court, documents, opinions, drawings, other documentary evidence and services which the Court may have requested, payments due to those who have participated in the proceedings, including the legally set fees, travel expenses and assistance towards expenses, reimbursement of postal charges, telephone, telegraphs, faxing, electronic copies, reimbursement for acquisition of magnetic media necessary for recording the evidence and reimbursement to the successful party in the proceedings of its costs, as well as barristers’ fees;
The fees of legal representatives are set by the Court, which must, for this purpose, have due regard to the time spent, the difficulty of the matter, the importance of the service provided, the financial means of the interested parties, the results obtained by means of the lawsuit and the amounts applied, in similar situations, within the respective judicial district;
The responsibility for the payment of costs is based on the decision of the court in regard to the case tried, the costs being paid by the unsuccessful party or by the party that has benefited from the action;
Some proceedings are, by virtue of legal provisions, exempt from the payment of costs, as are some parties to proceedings;
The final court fees, in civil proceedings, are set on conclusion of the case; therefore, they are paid at intervals, one quarter being lodged at the time of presentation of the petition or initial claim, the defence or appeal; in the majority of actions, a subsequent court fee, of an amount equal to the initial court fee, is paid after notification of the date that has been set for the final hearing;
The amounts paid in respect of the initial court fees and the court fees subsequently paid by the successful party will be reimbursed to the latter together with any sums advanced to cover expenses.

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/legal_aid/legal_aid_por_en.htm#1.

Offline VIXTE

Re: So what's next in the libel trial saga?
« Reply #359 on: December 10, 2014, 07:41:59 PM »
I am not sure why people are so interested in this libel thing. Of course Amaral was wrong. He was a professional and professionals don't publish their work data, if only for that he was wrong. This would mean any policeman in the world could do the same but they don't - because they cannot abuse their power.

It is same as if a doctor or a priest go out to talk about their patients or worshippers. They cannot do that, their job is to serve the society and they are aware of it.

This is where my interest in Amaral ends.  If you add to it that he as a professional also has a criminal record, this is where all speculation should end. Criminal record, published work data.. in modern world this simply doesn't exist as positive..