Author Topic: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...  (Read 4715 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« on: October 17, 2019, 12:57:14 PM »
I believe the above is a policing principle which basically means before casting the net far and wide look at suspects close to home!

I've heard retired MET detective Colin Sutton refer to the above and it appears in books about policing such as the following:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=JcKEDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=clearing+the+ground+beneath+your+feet+police&source=bl&ots=ki6RIfTgiZ&sig=ACfU3U0dFKax6YAYEhdQu_P1puVI8RqBSw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj47qyMjKPlAhXJNcAKHc9xCKsQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=clearing%20the%20ground%20beneath%20your%20feet%20police&f=false

The above link homes in on:

1. Management of information
2. Prioritisation of leads
3. "Lack of grip" of the investigation

In this case I consider PF to be one of the most important witnesses in that she was completely independent of the McCanns/T7, lived at Waterside Gardens (WG) permanently, directly above apartment 5A, and had done so for 3/4 years and yet it appears she was not asked to provide a wit stat until 20th Aug 2007 at a time the case had already turned against the McCanns.

When PF did produce a wit stat it provided crucial information:

- Claims she heard MM crying and calling 'Daddy, daddy' from 10.30 pm - 11.45 pm on 1st May
- Claims in her opinion the above noise did not emanate from a child under the age of 2 (which would rule out AM/SM).
- Claims the above noise ceased when she heard the patio doors slide open (which can't be locked from outside)
- Claims she phoned a local friend, Edna Glyn, to discuss
- Claims she observed the McCanns walking around ie was familiar with the parents and ages of the 3 children
- When asked about the crying she claims she thought it was brought on by a destabilising factor and suggests a nightmare or a burglary on the basis she herself had been the victim of an attempted burglary a week or so prior to the McCanns arrival.

So in effect PF shared the above info with at least one other person.  Who else did she share with?  And who heard second, third hand etc and overheard?

This is extremely important imo as PF was unwittingly letting those who she told know the following:

- A child was home alone in 5A
- The patio door was unlocked
- The idea the crying may have been brought about by a burglary/attempted burglary

Scene of crime:

- Disappeared nearly 4 yoa child
- No signs of forced entry
- Raised shutter/open window

Imo MM was abducted by someone who gleaned all the intelligence from PF to carry out the low risk operation:

- MM was abducted as she was the child heard crying.
- Abductor slipped in via unlocked patio doors and exited back out patio doors or more likely front door if it can closed shut behind.
- Abductor staged shutter and window in an attempt to mislead PF and investigators into thinking it may have been connected to the recent attempted robbery at PF's apartment.

It's a great pity imo that PF was not interviewed further along with Edna Glyn. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 01:01:52 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 04:51:15 PM »
IMO PJ/GA did not clear the ground beneath his feet. 

He was unable to work out:

- How a child seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth
- Why the S&R dogs did not scent beyond the immediate vicinity
- Why 5A showed no signs of forced entry
- Why the shutter had been raised and the window opened
- That 'Tannerman' wasn't a figment of someone's imagination but an in all probability an innocent holiday maker

As such he wove imo a poorly constructed narrative around the McCanns/T7.

Had he interviewed PF on 3rd/4th May he would imo have come to understand that the perp was someone who learned from PF that:

- MM was home alone
- The patio doors were unlocked
- PF sustained a recent attempted burglary on her apartment directly above 5A which may have been linked to the raised shutter/open window
- He might also have learned about anyone visiting PF who might have had access to a vehicle used in the abduction hence the S&R dogs did not scent beyond immediate vicinity

Had he interviewed Dr T and Mrs T on 3rd/4th May or shortly thereafter he would have come to understand that in all probability that 'Tannerman' was in all probability an innocent holiday maker.

It seems to me PJ/Amaral, the private detective agencies and MET have not cleared the ground beneath their feet?

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline The General

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2019, 04:56:13 PM »
IMO PJ/GA did not clear the ground beneath his feet. 

He was unable to work out:

- How a child seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth


...like everyone else on the planet.
The 2nd Youngest Member of the Forum

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2019, 05:25:56 PM »
...like everyone else on the planet.

Have you any evidence that everyone else on the planet has taken an interest in the case?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline The General

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2019, 05:35:57 PM »
Have you any evidence that everyone else on the planet has taken an interest in the case?
No, but by default nobody has explained it. That's a fact. Even the one's who don't know about the case haven't.
It's a totally superfluous comment - GA wasn't able to explain how a small child could vanish, etc, etc......who knew?
The 2nd Youngest Member of the Forum

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 05:42:14 PM »
No, but by default nobody has explained it. That's a fact. Even the one's who don't know about the case haven't.
It's a totally superfluous comment - GA wasn't able to explain how a small child could vanish, etc, etc......who knew?

It's a fact at this moment in time, yes.

Those responsible know and imo those responsible for investigating should have eventually known had they done their job properly. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Brietta

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2019, 05:49:52 PM »
IMO PJ/GA did not clear the ground beneath his feet. 

He was unable to work out:

- How a child seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth
- Why the S&R dogs did not scent beyond the immediate vicinity
- Why 5A showed no signs of forced entry
- Why the shutter had been raised and the window opened
- That 'Tannerman' wasn't a figment of someone's imagination but an in all probability an innocent holiday maker

As such he wove imo a poorly constructed narrative around the McCanns/T7.

Had he interviewed PF on 3rd/4th May he would imo have come to understand that the perp was someone who learned from PF that:

- MM was home alone
- The patio doors were unlocked
- PF sustained a recent attempted burglary on her apartment directly above 5A which may have been linked to the raised shutter/open window
- He might also have learned about anyone visiting PF who might have had access to a vehicle used in the abduction hence the S&R dogs did not scent beyond immediate vicinity

Had he interviewed Dr T and Mrs T on 3rd/4th May or shortly thereafter he would have come to understand that in all probability that 'Tannerman' was in all probability an innocent holiday maker.

It seems to me PJ/Amaral, the private detective agencies and MET have not cleared the ground beneath their feet?

Neither Scotland Yard nor private detectives acting on behalf of Madeleine's parents who never ceased in their efforts to locate her had the advantage of the golden hours which were squandered as much by arrogance as incompetence ...
First part of the post is fact ...  the arrogance and incompetence is opinion deduced from fact.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Lace

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2019, 06:28:38 PM »
Neither Scotland Yard nor private detectives acting on behalf of Madeleine's parents who never ceased in their efforts to locate her had the advantage of the golden hours which were squandered as much by arrogance as incompetence ...
First part of the post is fact ...  the arrogance and incompetence is opinion deduced from fact.

I remember reading [don't know if there was any truth in it]  that the GNR were late to the call from the OC as they had been investigating another case which turned out to be a hoax.    If this is true,  then the Police were purposely delayed after the call went out about Madeleine.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2019, 06:45:39 PM »
No, but by default nobody has explained it. That's a fact. Even the one's who don't know about the case haven't.
It's a totally superfluous comment - GA wasn't able to explain how a small child could vanish, etc, etc......who knew?

GA did expalin it...he said he could prove how maddie died and the death was covered up

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2019, 06:48:19 PM »
Either way I simply can't understand why an officer from PJ didn't as a matter of course interview PF at the earliest opportunity, 4th May latest.  After all she was only a matter of feet away when MM disappeared. 

MM disappeared 3rd May.  PF's wit stat dated 20th August  &%%6
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline jassi

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2019, 06:51:32 PM »
Either way I simply can't understand why an officer from PJ didn't as a matter of course interview PF at the earliest opportunity, 4th May latest.  After all she was only a matter of feet away when MM disappeared. 

MM disappeared 3rd May.  PF's wit stat dated 20th August  &%%6

It could hardly have been earlier than the 4th, could it ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2019, 06:57:39 PM »
It could hardly have been earlier than the 4th, could it ?

Well I guess in theory it could have been 3rd May but officers are human and I can appreciate the idea of abduction may have seemed unlikely on 3rd May but come dawn and post initial searches I would like to think an officer would have been on PF's doorstep and if applicable leave a calling card. 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 07:01:35 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline G-Unit

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2019, 08:21:47 PM »
Well I guess in theory it could have been 3rd May but officers are human and I can appreciate the idea of abduction may have seemed unlikely on 3rd May but come dawn and post initial searches I would like to think an officer would have been on PF's doorstep and if applicable leave a calling card.

On Saturday 5th there were house to house visits by the PJ and OC employees. I assume that either Mrs Fenn was out or she said she had nothing to say.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EXTERNAL.htm

Apartment 606 was used by the PJ as a base where people could go and speak to them. I assume Mrs Fenn didn't feel the need.

There appeared to be a guard on 5A for a while after the disappearance. I expect he would have been able to direct Mrs Fenn to 606 had she approached him. I assume she didn't.

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2019, 08:27:00 PM »
PF claims in her wit stat she had a visit from her niece on the morning of 3rd May. 

The niece, Carole Tranmer, claims in her wit stat she visited her aunt morning of 3rd May along with her husband, Christopher Tranmer.  According to the niece the trio left PF's apartments around midday for a fish restaurant in nearby Lagos.  They all returned to PF's around mid noon with CT and her husband leaving PF's about 6 pm/6.30 pm for their holiday accommodation in Quarteria which is about an hours drive away from PDL. 

Why didn't PF mention her niece's husband and the lunch?  Is it just a case of one providing more detail than the other?   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline jassi

Re: 'Clear The Ground Beneath Your Feet'...
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2019, 08:30:47 PM »
PF claims in her wit stat she had a visit from her niece on the morning of 3rd May. 

The niece, Carole Tranmer, claims in her wit stat she visited her aunt morning of 3rd May along with her husband, Christopher Tranmer.  According to the niece the trio left PF's apartments around midday for a fish restaurant in nearby Lagos.  They all returned to PF's around mid noon with CT and her husband leaving PF's about 6 pm/6.30 pm for their holiday accommodation in Quarteria which is about an hours drive away from PDL. 

Why didn't PF mention her niece's husband and the lunch? Is it just a case of one providing more detail than the other?

Perhaps she considered it of no relevance.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future