Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 1479755 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #855 on: May 27, 2016, 07:41:53 AM »
How hilarious that we may not accuse Amaral of lying in his book in which he accuses the parents of a missing child of lying!

Perhaps this will help you to understand. It's from the Appeal Judgment on the book banning injunction. It says that interpreting the facts of the investigation in a different way is legitimate in a literary work so long as it doesn't affect anyone's rights, and it didn't. That ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court, so the question of the book damaging the McCann's rights is dead in the water since 2010. That's why the re-banning was so strange, as it contradicted the earlier findings of both the Appeal and Supreme Courts.

 it seems to be important to stress the following: the indicative facts that led to the applicants’ constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not valued by the Public Ministry’s Magistrates in order to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen through another prism and with another base, may lead to a different conclusion from that which was attained by those same Magistrates – those are indications that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation, but they can be appreciated in a different way, in an interpretation that is legitimate to be published as a literary work, as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved – and we have written above already why we understand that said interpretation does not offend the applicants’ rights.
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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #856 on: May 27, 2016, 07:51:29 AM »
Perhaps this will help you to understand. It's from the Appeal Judgment on the book banning injunction. It says that interpreting the facts of the investigation in a different way is legitimate in a literary work so long as it doesn't affect anyone's rights, and it didn't. That ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court, so the question of the book damaging the McCann's rights is dead in the water since 2010. That's why the re-banning was so strange, as it contradicted the earlier findings of both the Appeal and Supreme Courts.

 it seems to be important to stress the following: the indicative facts that led to the applicants’ constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not valued by the Public Ministry’s Magistrates in order to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen through another prism and with another base, may lead to a different conclusion from that which was attained by those same Magistrates – those are indications that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation, but they can be appreciated in a different way, in an interpretation that is legitimate to be published as a literary work, as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved – and we have written above already why we understand that said interpretation does not offend the applicants’ rights.


Thank you G-Unit for that.

It was abundantly clear what the recent judgement entailed, so why are certain  parties protesting otherwise ?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #857 on: May 27, 2016, 07:55:13 AM »
You are wrong Mercury. There is a difference about "burglary that went wrong" vs. other theories.

At least three pevious burglaries on 5G, 5L and 4A and same modus operandi.

On the other hand Amaral theory physical impossible plus Tapas9 relaxed dining until 22:00.

The independent sighting of man with jacket in cold night with Madeleine like barefoot toddler in pyjamas discards wandering off theory.

Of course there is no enough evidence for Justice ... yet. Meanwhile consider it like "theory priorization".

Let's see your evidence of 10pm. One with a watch said Kate left to check at 9:50. According to others present at the table she wasn't gone long. The waiter who served Russell his steak said they were gone before 10pm. He is a reliable witness because he said Russell arrived back at 9:45 and Russell confirmed that time!
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #858 on: May 27, 2016, 08:51:36 AM »
Perhaps this will help you to understand. It's from the Appeal Judgment on the book banning injunction. It says that interpreting the facts of the investigation in a different way is legitimate in a literary work so long as it doesn't affect anyone's rights, and it didn't. That ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court, so the question of the book damaging the McCann's rights is dead in the water since 2010. That's why the re-banning was so strange, as it contradicted the earlier findings of both the Appeal and Supreme Courts.

 it seems to be important to stress the following: the indicative facts that led to the applicants’ constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not valued by the Public Ministry’s Magistrates in order to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen through another prism and with another base, may lead to a different conclusion from that which was attained by those same Magistrates – those are indications that were deemed to be insufficient in terms of evidence in a criminal investigation, but they can be appreciated in a different way, in an interpretation that is legitimate to be published as a literary work, as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved – and we have written above already why we understand that said interpretation does not offend the applicants’ rights.


"...as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved."

Why is the presumption of innocence not a fundamental right in this case?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #859 on: May 27, 2016, 08:53:06 AM »
"...as long as said interpretation does not offend any fundamental rights of anyone involved."

Why is the presumption of innocence not a fundamental right in this case?

The mccanns were not on trial Carana.

Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #860 on: May 27, 2016, 09:37:35 AM »
Indeed.

Due to a misconception on the part of the Portuguese, they got away with charges on child abandonment.

If Portuguese residents had done the same , they would have been in court.

No doubt about it.

That's not what the Portuguese Attorney General  said  - he said their actions did not meet the 'Intent to Abandon' criterium required for them to be charged with 'abandonment'.        IOW -  the AG applied the law - and found they had not broken it.    Are you claiming he didn't know what he was talking about and was under a misconception?  Surely not - I was under the impression the Portuguese judiciary could do no wrong in your opinion.

To claim 'they got away with it' when it has been officially stated that they did not break the law is libelous IMO.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimăo. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #861 on: May 27, 2016, 09:47:10 AM »
The mccanns were not on trial Carana.

they dont have to be on trial

Article 2 confirms that the Directive will apply at “all stages from the moment when a person is suspected or accused of having committed a criminal offence, or an alleged criminal offence, until the final determination of the question whether the person has committed the offence concerned and that decision has become definitive”

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #862 on: May 27, 2016, 09:48:49 AM »
That's not what the Portuguese Attorney General  said  - he said their actions did not meet the 'Intent to Abandon' criterium required for them to be charged with 'abandonment'.        IOW -  the AG applied the law - and found they had not broken it.    Are you claiming he didn't know what he was talking about and was under a misconception?  Surely not - I was under the impression the Portuguese judiciary could do no wrong in your opinion.

To claim 'they got away with it' when it has been officially stated that they did not break the law is libelous IMO.

Do keep up.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7115564/Revealed-The-reason-Kate-and-Gerry-werent-charged-over-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html


AND TAKE NOTE.

This link and others have been provided before.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #863 on: May 27, 2016, 09:57:57 AM »
Do keep up.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7115564/Revealed-The-reason-Kate-and-Gerry-werent-charged-over-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html


AND TAKE NOTE.

This link and others have been provided before.

the person who needs to keep up is you...the Sun is not regarded as a reliable source...the archiving report is and explains why the mccanns were not charged

Offline Benice

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #864 on: May 27, 2016, 09:59:09 AM »
Do keep up.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7115564/Revealed-The-reason-Kate-and-Gerry-werent-charged-over-Madeleine-McCanns-disappearance.html


AND TAKE NOTE.

This link and others have been provided before.


So you believe Sun reporters know better than the Portuguese Attorney General about PT law -  and that an article in the Sun supersedes the statement made by the Attorney General in his Final report.   LOL - there's no answer to that.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimăo. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #865 on: May 27, 2016, 10:10:23 AM »
they dont have to be on trial

Article 2 confirms that the Directive will apply at “all stages from the moment when a person is suspected or accused of having committed a criminal offence, or an alleged criminal offence, until the final determination of the question whether the person has committed the offence concerned and that decision has become definitive”

Which only became applicable in February 2016, countries have until April 2018 to apply it. It is to clarify;

The presumption of innocence (set out in Article 6 (2) ECHR and Article 48 (1) EU Charter) is the cornerstone of the right to a fair trial.

and;

Recital 6 confirms that it applies “only to criminal proceedings, as interpreted in the case-law of the Court of Justice of the European Union (Court of Justice), without prejudice to the case-law of the European Court of Human Rights.

I will provide the cite for you;
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/the-new-directive-on-presumption-
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #866 on: May 27, 2016, 10:18:49 AM »
Which only became applicable in February 2016, countries have until April 2018 to apply it. It is to clarify;

The presumption of innocence (set out in Article 6 (2) ECHR and Article 48 (1) EU Charter) is the cornerstone of the right to a fair trial.

and;

Recital 6 confirms that it applies “only to criminal proceedings, as interpreted in the case-law of the Court of Justice of the European Union (Court of Justice), without prejudice to the case-law of the European Court of Human Rights.

I will provide the cite for you;
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/the-new-directive-on-presumption-

are you contesting that the mccanns have the right to be considered innocent...you probably are...that is quite a disgraceful stance to take

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #867 on: May 27, 2016, 10:39:59 AM »
are you contesting that the mccanns have the right to be considered innocent...you probably are...that is quite a disgraceful stance to take

Posting partial information with no cite isn't exactly ethical in my opinion. Am I under any obligation to presume them innocent? Cite please.

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Offline lordpookles

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #868 on: May 27, 2016, 10:43:41 AM »
Let's see your evidence of 10pm. One with a watch said Kate left to check at 9:50. According to others present at the table she wasn't gone long. The waiter who served Russell his steak said they were gone before 10pm. He is a reliable witness because he said Russell arrived back at 9:45 and Russell confirmed that time!

Interesting if true. What time did SY/crimewatch say kate went to check?

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #869 on: May 27, 2016, 11:11:44 AM »
What are the mccanns innocent of ?

The left their children and should have bee brought to court in Portugal for abandonment, just as any other Portuguese citizen would have happened to them in the same situation.