Author Topic: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?  (Read 111995 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #585 on: May 03, 2020, 03:35:25 PM »
Of course I’m preoccupied with this government....who else should we blame for the woeful response to the pandemic?

The response isn't woeful... You are putting your spin on it LOL

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #586 on: May 03, 2020, 03:36:39 PM »
Faith must have been devastated when Corbyn and his Raving Loony Party were thrashed in the election.. But every cloud has a silver lining.. She can now spend her time criticising Boris which is a much easier job she would have had defending Jeremy had the uk electorate been as gullible as Corbyn thought they would be

You are right, I was disappointed we lost but time moves on and we now have more pressing worries than the result of the election. Every uturn the government has made in this pandemic has been as a direct result of pressure from both the public and the media.....and that’s where the effort needs to be applied now....not on mourning past defeats.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #587 on: May 03, 2020, 03:43:23 PM »
The response isn't woeful... You are putting your spin on it LOL

The response has been shambolic at best and has directly killed thousands more people than needed to have died. The Financial Times has gathered the data regarding deaths from the Office of National Statistics and the true figure of deaths is nearer 40,000 than the figure we are being told....that will make us only second to America in the amount of deaths recorded. That’s horrendous.

You may not mind being lied to by this government. I, and many, many millions more, do.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #588 on: May 03, 2020, 04:10:32 PM »
The response has been shambolic at best and has directly killed thousands more people than needed to have died. The Financial Times has gathered the data regarding deaths from the Office of National Statistics and the true figure of deaths is nearer 40,000 than the figure we are being told....that will make us only second to America in the amount of deaths recorded. That’s horrendous.

You may not mind being lied to by this government. I, and many, many millions more, do.
None of the figures you are quoting are particularly reliable as countries record figure by different criteria.. The best indication is the death rate above the norm... Spain by far the worst on this score... Spin by everyone... Apart from me of course

Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #589 on: May 03, 2020, 04:14:45 PM »
Initial thoughts...

IMO, public, societal and economic health shouldn't be either/or but should go hand-in-hand. The problem is finding the right balance.

IMO, the government should definitely request a Brexit extension - there's no way it can cope with both right now. The civil service was run ragged even before Covid.

Mistakes must be taken on board. Every country has made some, and its worth learning from and sharing what they were so that others are more alert (a bit like sharing info on scams so a red flag goes up).

Any easing involves weighing multiple risk factors and how that can be managed. There's sheer maths,  logistics, behaviour and no doubt others.

I can't see a feasible easing without getting PPE, testing (+ contact tracing + isolation) in place. And hammering the message of social distancing and hygiene.

Then geographical / sectors need to be looked at.

I saw one country's site (can't remember which now) that was keeping tabs on the R0 in each area. Easing could start in those with the lowest Ro counts (providing testing is sufficient to verify it). That may mean measures to strongly discourage / stop people from travelling outside a specified area for a while.

Places where a lot of people work will probably need help for spatial planning and rigorous hygiene.

Staggering shifts (and therefore easing public transport cramming) might help some.

Not much can happen without a plan for public transport and schools.

The tourism /public entertainment / non-local travel sectors may have to wait.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 06:59:11 PM by Carana »

Offline Venturi Swirl

"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #591 on: May 03, 2020, 04:40:31 PM »
None of the figures you are quoting are particularly reliable as countries record figure by different criteria.. The best indication is the death rate above the norm... Spain by far the worst on this score... Spin by everyone... Apart from me of course

The chief medical officer said 20,000 would be a good result yet we are looking down the wrong end of 40,000 people dead. How can that not be described as horrendous?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline barrier

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #593 on: May 03, 2020, 04:54:00 PM »
But surely the government should be held to a better standard than the media ? Are we really in a position with this government that we have to disregard everything they say because we don’t know if it’s true ?

I'm not sure the media is capable anymore,its reckoned in some circles that the government massaged the testing figures to unsurprisingly reach 100,000 by the end of April,was there a media storm? more like a wimper. A decent opposition which in reality is kind of paralysed through parliament not fully sitting is unable to properly hold the government to account.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 05:03:41 PM by barrier »
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #594 on: May 03, 2020, 05:05:03 PM »
The chief medical officer said 20,000 would be a good result yet we are looking down the wrong end of 40,000 people dead. How can that not be described as horrendous?

20,000 is horrendous

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #595 on: May 03, 2020, 05:43:56 PM »
20,000 is horrendous

Absolutely and it needn’t have got to even that if a lockdown had been rolled out earlier.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #596 on: May 03, 2020, 06:15:20 PM »
I find it fair to say that the UK was caught napping at the helm (as were the governments of many countries), and I'm not sure that a different government would have been much more awake as all eyes were on dealing with Brexit. Different people at the helm of whichever party might have made a difference, but that's subjective.

On the bright(er) side, the UK does seem to be ramping up testing, even though it still needs to hit the turbocharge.

Widely available PPE and personal / collective responsibility for social distancing and hygiene will be key to any successful easing.


Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #597 on: May 03, 2020, 06:40:15 PM »
The most popular comment under one of the articles in today’s ST:

“My! My! My!  Has the Grauniad/Observer barred all comments from its' columns this fine Sunday morning?  All their disaffected, sclerotic, whinging moaners, still upset at December's election result, appear to have gravitated here to pour scorn on the PM.

Dominic is simply pointing out the blindingly obvious.  For all of Fleet Street's attempts to rubbish Boris. the public quite like him.  They certainly greatly prefer him to the alternatives on offer, both back in December and now in May.

As always, the child-like news media now attempts to portray Covid-19 like some football or cricket match and then to lay blame for the numbers on some poor individual, or small group of politicians.

This is simplistic nonsense.  It portrays a world, supposedly of either dead Right, or dead Wrong answers to enormously complex problems, when any thoughtful, unbiased person, particularly those who've been exposed to some elements of a scientific education, knows that the choices are fiendishly difficult. 

Rather like caring for an aged, ill and/or demented parent - There are often no right answers.  Merely, less-wrong ones, in my experience.

It is interesting to note that the countries who seem to be faring best are in South-East Asia, where South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore, all had the benefit of two dry-runs, in the past 20 years, with SARS & MERS.  They got the enviable chance of experimenting with much smaller outbreaks, and so discovered what worked best and worst.  The First-World hasn't been so lucky.

It also appears clear that while the everyday workers in the NHS are brilliant, their senior management leaves something to be desired, and may even be sometimes woefully inadequate.  Is this, perhaps, another case of "Lions led by Donkeys" repeating itself a century later?

Meantime, the women surveyed appear to be giving the PM the benefit of the doubt.  He appears to be doing his best.  Whether that proves enough won't be known for at least two years.  When the scientists have dissected all the numbers to make allowances for age, obesity, population density and whatever else varies between countries.  Plus the current great unknowns; why are men dying at twice the rate of women and similar fatality differences between BAME and white populations?  Then we may be in some position to make facile judgements on the politicians.  But for the moment, the public is mostly observing a tactfully respectful silence.  Oh, that the media would follow their example”.

Well said that man.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Carana

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #598 on: May 03, 2020, 06:57:56 PM »
Another thorny subject is likely to be public acceptance of app-based contact tracing. A lot of people are likely to be wary of it, not least following Leave.Eu's dodgy campaign with Cambridge Analytica.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #599 on: May 03, 2020, 07:10:09 PM »
Absolutely and it needn’t have got to even that if a lockdown had been rolled out earlier.

I  think its far too early to make any judgements...