Author Topic: Timeline May 3rd  (Read 75811 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #120 on: July 04, 2018, 07:09:07 PM »
The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

It is all approximate though isn't it?  No-one had a clue about the time of anything.

A fair summation one would imagine.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Lace

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #121 on: July 04, 2018, 07:53:37 PM »
Lace was a bit muddled up there for sure.  Unless the story has been really badly told.

So why is pathfinder saying Gerry was longer on his check?   Pathfinder has never hidden the fact that he/she believes Gerry hid Madeleine's body,   I would like to know when he is supposed to have done this.  Even if Gerry was a bit longer on his check,  he was there chatting to Jes Wilkins,  behaving normally and then went to have his dinner and behaved normally.   What father would be like that if he had just found his daughter dead and hidden her body?

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #122 on: July 04, 2018, 08:42:20 PM »
The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

It is all approximate though isn't it?  No-one had a clue about the time of anything.

I would put my next pay packet on Jez knowing how long he spent chatting to Gerry.  Briefly!  not  20 mins or 15 mins or 30.  Just a passing acknowledgement elongated by the sounds of it.

I spoke to my neighbour for about 5 minutes this moring I spoke to my staff for about 1 hour!  yeah I know this is not accurate but I know I didn't speak to my staff for 5 mins and didn't chat to my neighbour for an hour. you see where I am going with this?
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #123 on: July 04, 2018, 08:52:58 PM »
So why is pathfinder saying Gerry was longer on his check?   Pathfinder has never hidden the fact that he/she believes Gerry hid Madeleine's body,   I would like to know when he is supposed to have done this.  Even if Gerry was a bit longer on his check,  he was there chatting to Jes Wilkins,  behaving normally and then went to have his dinner and behaved normally.   What father would be like that if he had just found his daughter dead and hidden her body?
Hopefully Pathfinder could explain that for you.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #124 on: July 04, 2018, 08:53:59 PM »
Exclusive: Chief Inspector Olegário Sousa
IN NEWS · 25-08-2007

Speaking to The Portugal News from his office at the Polícia Judiciária (PJ) head office in the centre of Lisbon, Chief Inspector Olegário Sousa (46), who has been in the service for 20 years revealed great sympathy for Kate and Gerry McCann and lamented the ordeal they have been forced to deal with since the disappearance of their daughter almost four months ago. He also explains that contradictions among witnesses are part and parcel of criminal investigations and that police are confident of solving the mystery surrounding what happened to Madeleine McCann, but admits, “We still have some doubts as to what happened” and “It is possible we will never find Madeleine”.

Brendan de Beer: Have there been any contradictions by witnesses interviewed by police?

Olegário Sousa: “Contradictions in witness reports are normal.
People are on holiday, relaxing and having a meal. The last thing on their minds is that something bad is about to happen.

When confronted with a disappearance, it is normal that different versions are given.

Eye-witnesses vary in their credibility, some people are more observant than others.

In a bank robbery, we could have ten descriptions of the robber.

Eye-witness reports are fallible”.

“It could be that if I was at the table I could have not recalled anyone leaving the table.

Only major discrepancies are questioned, such as when a witness says he never left the table and then says he left every ten minutes”.
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/exclusive-chief-inspector-olegario-sousa/22774
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #125 on: July 04, 2018, 08:57:47 PM »
I find it hard to believe him sorry. 
"Only major discrepancies are questioned, such as when a witness says he never left the table and then says he left every ten minutes”."  Who would alter their statements as severe as this?
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John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #126 on: July 04, 2018, 09:02:22 PM »
I find it hard to believe him sorry. 
"Only major discrepancies are questioned, such as when a witness says he never left the table and then says he left every ten minutes”."  Who would alter their statements as severe as this?

Agreed!

Well, now you mention it...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #127 on: July 04, 2018, 09:04:34 PM »
Agreed!

Well, now you mention it...
Entered by the front door or by the back door.  I wonder if that was severe enough?
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #128 on: June 27, 2020, 11:27:09 PM »
Just posting on this old Timeline thread because the issue was raised on the New German Suspect thread. It was claimed there that staff witness statements definitely place Gerry McCann in the Tapas Bar at the time of the Smith family sighting. I don't believe that thedir statements do prove any such thing. Times are not precise and because discrepecies are normal it's virtually impossible to guarantee what time GM was absent from the table and for how long.

For example the waiter, Joaquim Jose Moreira Baptista, is reported by the PJ to have told them:  "When asked, he said that during dinner the men from the group would leave the table, returning to the table a few minutes later. The witness says that he does not know where they went. These absences would last for about 15 minutes. He cannot say with what regularity these absences occurred.

The witness remembers these occurrences well as would often have to take a plate of food requested by one of them back, due to the guest's absence, when he would find that the guest was not at the table when he came to serve the food.

When questioned, the witness says that he remembers on Thursday 3rd May, on the day of the disappearance, that the parents went to dine at the restaurant with the usual people. He cannot be precise, but the witness says that the group arrived between 20.00 and 21.00. He remembers there being about 9 people in total. He states that he received the food orders from the group.

Later, between 22.00 and 22.30, when the witness was in the kitchen, he was informed by a colleague that in the meantime a client had entered the restaurant shouting and that afterwards the whole English had left in a panic.
"

The bartender, Jeronimo Tomas Rodigues Salcedo, in an interview with the PJ stated: "I remember that when I took notice of the disappearance, I had been in the restaurant speaking with my two colleagues?Ze and Ricardo who were on break. I returned to the restaurant and noticed that the table of nine was empty with the exception of the older woman. I went over to the table and joked with her: ?They've left you alone?? She responded more of less with these words: ?No, they went to see if the little girl was there.? I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty."[/b]

And the kitchen assistant, Svetlana Starikova Vitorino, who also worked front of house told the PJ: "one individual, purportedly the father of the missing, left the dinner table where a group of friends (in number 8 or 9), for about 30 minutes. After having returned, a woman whom she believed to be his wife, also left the table, there having passed a few moments, all the guests left the table in question, except one elderly lady, who told her [Svetlana's] colleagues that that child had disappeared."

I don't believe that any of these statements can either confirm or disprove that GM was definitely at the Tapas bar at the time of the Smith sighting. Furthermore how much do we know of GM's movements after the alarm was raised?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #129 on: June 27, 2020, 11:45:53 PM »
Talk about flogging a dead horse.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #130 on: June 27, 2020, 11:54:46 PM »
Talk about flogging a dead horse.

How so? SY believe Smithman is likely to be a person carrying MM away from 5A. We have a new German suspect. It stands to reason that if the new German suspect is involved then he is likely to be linked to Smithman.

Smithman has never been identified. The closest we got to an ID was "60-80% sure it was GM"... but it's widely supported that this can't have been the case because the timeline puts GM in the Tapas Bar. However does the evidence (such as it is) support this?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2020, 07:55:37 AM »
How so? SY believe Smithman is likely to be a person carrying MM away from 5A. We have a new German suspect. It stands to reason that if the new German suspect is involved then he is likely to be linked to Smithman.

Smithman has never been identified. The closest we got to an ID was "60-80% sure it was GM"... but it's widely supported that this can't have been the case because the timeline puts GM in the Tapas Bar. However does the evidence (such as it is) support this?
Yes the evidence does support this.  Next question?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #132 on: June 28, 2020, 08:38:02 AM »
Yes the evidence does support this.  Next question?

Read the staff witness testimony. None of them with any certainty place GM at the Tapas Bar at exactly the same time as the Smith sighting.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2020, 08:40:00 AM »
Read the staff witness testimony. None of them with any certainty place GM at the Tapas Bar at exactly the same time as the Smith sighting.
Exactly what time was the Smith sighting, to the minute please, with proof, ta.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #134 on: June 28, 2020, 09:00:04 AM »
The poster ISpyWithMyBigEye probably, imo, hits the nail on the head yesterday when he stated:

Quote
I don’t believe none of them had a phone or watch...that’s complete nonsense made up by conspirators.

We know where that claim first came from. It was imo an attempt by Clarence Mitchell to explain the problems with the T9 timeline. It was reported  (before he back tracked a little a month later): "Mitchell said he was not surprised by the inconsistencies in the initial accounts. 'You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.'"

 I personally tend to agree with ISpy - the official CM endorsed narrative in this case is imo "nonsense made up by conspirators"