Timeline May 3rd

[Miss Taken Identity]

It points to the possibility that, according to independent witness statements, the T7 were aware MM was missing before 22:00. It points to the possibility that GM's precise account of a 22:03 time for KM check is erroneous, imo. The belief that Gerry was wrong about the time of KM's check is, imo, backed up by Oldfield (KM's check was at 21:50) and two independent witnesses who say the T9 had vacated the table (to look for MM) by "21;40" or "around 21:45".

Well it certainly causes many issues. If we are to belie e the team McCann T9.

- they all claimed to have had checks every 30 minutes every evening
- later established as 'listening at door' checks.
-They also claimed they did not check each others children.


Are we accepting  one or two had watches if so, as they were all seated at @ 8.30pm the first check would be 9pm then 9.30pm the 10pm.

first check by Gerry,then Kate, then Gerry, or other way round. However, on this particular evening- this time line and form of checking did not take place- hence they had to guess a time line. I personally do not believe they had a 30min checking system at all- it was  more 'oh better go check the kids' as and when IMO.

Also on this particular evening we have other people going into the apartment- Gerry (Claiming to use the toilet and noticing a door open wider than he /they left it)and one other male T9 went in (agreed he had a wee look around) (?).

Gerry claims he saw his daughter asleep- moments later he is outside he chats with Jez and at that same few minutes JT sees an abductor run off with MBM.

Seriously! this abductor jemmied the window grabbed a sleeping child and got out of the window within a few minutes. JT saw PJs but no one ever found the 'jemmy' or scuff marks,smudged glove marks, or hair at or near the window apart from Kates.

After Gerrys check, no one else apart from Kate  saw and discussed the whooshing curtains blah blah blah...

[G-Unit]

It's pretty straightforward.

The witness states the group are at the table at 21:20 and that the table is empty by 21:40.

If you follow the entire statement it is quite clear that he doesn't mean 22:20 and 22:40. He was an employee he wouldn't get the time wrong by an hour.

If you believe he's an hour out do you honestly believe the group first heard off MM's disappearance at 22:20?

Pelega was the head chef, with responsibility for five kitchens around the site. They were, I think, the Millenium, the Tapas, two snack bars related to swimming pools and one other. As head chef he worked in the Millenium kitchen but organised and oversaw the others, which is why he visited the Tapas on 3rd. It's highly unlikely that he made a mistake with the times, imo, given his seniority and his responsibilities.

[Venturi Swirl]

It's pretty straightforward.

The witness states the group are at the table at 21:20 and that the table is empty by 21:40.

If you follow the entire statement it is quite clear that he doesn't mean 22:20 and 22:40. He was an employee he wouldn't get the time wrong by an hour.

If you believe he's an hour out do you honestly believe the group first heard off MM's disappearance at 22:20?

Over and over again you are misunderstanding, I really cannot help you if you refuse to make any attempt to understand.

[Venturi Swirl]

Pelega was the head chef, with responsibility for five kitchens around the site. They were, I think, the Millenium, the Tapas, two snack bars related to swimming pools and one other. As head chef he worked in the Millenium kitchen but organised and oversaw the others, which is why he visited the Tapas on 3rd. It's highly unlikely that he made a mistake with the times, imo, given his seniority and his responsibilities.

Really?  In that case you must give credence to his statement which means that Kate raised the alarm PRIOR to 9.20 pm.  Wow.  Just wow.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Over and over again you are misunderstanding, I really cannot help you if you refuse to make any attempt to understand.

See G-Units post. I’m not failing to understand what you are saying I just don’t believe the employee was out by an hour. I do believe there is evidence to suggest that the T7 were aware that MM was missing before 22:00.

I’m also stating as a fact that at least two employees fail to place GM in the Tapas Bar at 22:00.

[Venturi Swirl]

See G-Units post. I’m not failing to understand what you are saying I just don’t believe the employee was out by an hour. I do believe there is evidence to suggest that the T7 were aware that MM was missing before 22:00.

I’m also stating as a fact that at least two employees fail to place GM in the Tapas Bar at 22:00.

Serting aside the issue of whether it was 9.20pm or 10.20pm how do you account for the complete illogicality of the order of events as he describes them?  By his account he was aware of M’s disappearance by 9.20pm before the Tapas group had left the table.

[faithlilly]

See G-Units post. I’m not failing to understand what you are saying I just don’t believe the employee was out by an hour. I do believe there is evidence to suggest that the T7 were aware that MM was missing before 22:00.

I’m also stating as a fact that at least two employees fail to place GM in the Tapas Bar at 22:00.

If Gerry did the 9.30 check and not Oldfield the timeline you suggest would make more sense.

Similarly I think a 9.00 check by Gerry also makes more sense when, according to Wilkins, Gerry was acting normally.

At 9.30 the child was discovered missing.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Serting aside the issue of whether it was 9.20pm or 10.20pm how do you account for the complete illogicality of the order of events as he describes them?  By his account he was aware of M’s disappearance by 9.20pm before the Tapas group had left the table.

He was told what "the clamour" was about. Also you need to re-read it because it's not quite how you describe:

"A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. "

So around 21:20 he hears "some clamour". He was informed after (or during) "the clamour" what it was about. He comments that the table was empty by 21:40. He does not give a time for when they left. Shortly after the clamour would be a save assumption.

The two employees who are independent witnesses both state that the clamour / alarm being raised was before 22:00. No-ones timings are exact (except GM with 22:03). However it's important that two independent witnesses both state before 22:00 for the group to be aware that MM was missing. SY stated that a thorough understanding of the timeline was important. I personally believe that both employees would be worth questioning further.

[Brietta]

That would be around the time Paul and Susan Moyes had settled down on their balcony overlooking the tapas area absolutely oblivious to the clamour taking place underneath them;  the Carpenters left to walk home within that same timescale and didn't notice a thing either.
Funny that when all Hell was allegedly breaking loose around them.

[Venturi Swirl]

He was told what "the clamour" was about. Also you need to re-read it because it's not quite how you describe:

"A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. "

So around 21:20 he hears "some clamour". He was informed after (or during) "the clamour" what it was about. He comments that the table was empty by 21:40. He does not give a time for when they left. Shortly after the clamour would be a save assumption.

The two employees who are independent witnesses both state that the clamour / alarm being raised was before 22:00. No-ones timings are exact (except GM with 22:03). However it's important that two independent witnesses both state before 22:00 for the group to be aware that MM was missing. SY stated that a thorough understanding of the timeline was important. I personally believe that both employees would be worth questioning further.

By your own interpretation you’ve got the restaurant chef finding out Madeleine had disappeared BEFORE anyone left the table.  In other words he was the first person after Kate to learn of Madeleine’s disappearance, and you still think this is logical?

[G-Unit]

He was told what "the clamour" was about. Also you need to re-read it because it's not quite how you describe:

"A few minutes later, when it was around 21H20, he heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared. Given the importance of this, believed that he should be in the surroundings. At that moment, he did not leave the area of the restaurant, and did not have the opportunity to check if the vehicle mentioned before was situated in the same location;
. Later, at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. "

So around 21:20 he hears "some clamour". He was informed after (or during) "the clamour" what it was about. He comments that the table was empty by 21:40. He does not give a time for when they left. Shortly after the clamour would be a save assumption.

The two employees who are independent witnesses both state that the clamour / alarm being raised was before 22:00. No-ones timings are exact (except GM with 22:03). However it's important that two independent witnesses both state before 22:00 for the group to be aware that MM was missing. SY stated that a thorough understanding of the timeline was important. I personally believe that both employees would be worth questioning further.

In my opinion a few witnesses should have been questioned again. It's too late now, but Pelega's statement could have been confirmed (or not) at the time. The receptionist stated he was phoned from the Tapas 'between 21:30 and 22:00 and informed of the disappearance'. That should have been looked into.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

In my opinion a few witnesses should have been questioned again. It's too late now, but Pelega's statement could have been confirmed (or not) at the time. The receptionist stated he was phoned from the Tapas 'between 21:30 and 22:00 and informed of the disappearance'. That should have been looked into.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

Completely agree. I think that Amaral becomes aware of these inconsistencies early on. It’s quite likely that them shaped his opinion as to what happened. Probably the worst “mistake” GM made was contradicting KM and MO about using the locked door and not the unlocked patio door. SIL posters debate whether this was a “lie” or simply a “mistake” on the SIL website. Abduction theorists also have an issue with MO’s check and whether it happened at all. But I’m not sure if their reasons for their problem with MO’s check in relation to the timeline.

[Mr Gray]

Completely agree. I think that Amaral becomes aware of these inconsistencies early on. It’s quite likely that them shaped his opinion as to what happened. Probably the worst “mistake” GM made was contradicting KM and MO about using the locked door and not the unlocked patio door. SIL posters debate whether this was a “lie” or simply a “mistake” on the SIL website. Abduction theorists also have an issue with MO’s check and whether it happened at all. But I’m not sure if their reasons for their problem with MO’s check in relation to the timeline.

SY...and the germans dont seem to regards these inconsistencies as important...they may well be simply as  a result of how the statements were taken

[barrier]

SY...and the germans dont seem to regards these inconsistencies as important...they may well be simply as  a result of how the statements were taken

They may prove significant, someones going to have to prove how Madeleine was abducted, if this indeed happened.

[Mr Gray]

They may prove significant, someones going to have to prove how Madeleine was abducted, if this indeed happened.

I dont see how in any way. We need to see what evidence the germans have