Timeline May 3rd

[G-Unit]

By your reckoning the most reliable witness statement is that of the chef Pelaga who puts the raising of the alarm at just before 9.20pm and yet in all my time I have never seen it seriously mooted as the actual time the alarm was raised.  Surely this is a massive oversight in a forum dedicated to debating what happened that night?  I’m amazed you haven’t made more of it tbh, considering how seriously you take his statement - it changes everything.

I have never said Pelega's statement is "the most reliable witness statement". Once again, you are trying to put words into my mouth. My point has always been that the alarm could have been raised before 10pm, because various statements disagree with the T9 about the time.

Some of them disagree with their own timeline, in fact. If the alarm was raised at 22:14, as Gerry suggested, then Matthew didn't go to reception at 22:05 - 22:10 as he claimed, did he? The 'unknown woman' didn't tell the nannies about the disappearance at that time either.

[Venturi Swirl]

I have never said Pelega's statement is "the most reliable witness statement". Once again, you are trying to put words into my mouth. My point has always been that the alarm could have been raised before 10pm, because various statements disagree with the T9 about the time.

Some of them disagree with their own timeline, in fact. If the alarm was raised at 22:14, as Gerry suggested, then Matthew didn't go to reception at 22:05 - 22:10 as he claimed, did he? The 'unknown woman' didn't tell the nannies about the disappearance at that time either.

It is not putting words into your mouth to say by your own judgement "It's highly unlikely that he made a mistake with the times, imo, given his seniority and his responsibilities”.  In fact that is a direct quote.  Highly unlikely that he is wrong.  Flipping that on its head means that by your judgement it's highly likely the alarm was raised around 9.20pm. Do you agree, or are you changing your mind?

[barrier]

After a forensic study of the timeline the Met concluded that there was a window of opportunity for abduction.  Are they mistaken?  If so be my guest and demonstrate how.

If and its a big if it ever gets to court the prosecution will have to demonstrate that in from of a Judge,not on here.

[Venturi Swirl]

If and its a big if it ever gets to court the prosecution will have to demonstrate that in from of a Judge,not on here.

  If you could prove be means of the timeline that there was literally no way an abductor could strike (a position I believe is echoed by G-Unit, who has previously asserted that abduction is virtually impossible, or words to that effect) then you could shut us all up once and for all.

[Robittybob1]

Ah yes you could be right, it was probably clamour about another missing child, though Pelaga does say in his statement that the child belonged to the group that had all completely left the restaurant by 9.40pm.

That would be natural.  The people associated with the missing child would get up.  Yet the Tapas 9 all claim to be at the table or getting back to the table after that time.  I can only think that Pelaga was aware of a different event. That resolved itself rapidly, and then the McCann incident followed on from that. 

[Venturi Swirl]

That would be natural.  The people associated with the missing child would get up.  Yet the Tapas 9 all claim to be at the table or getting back to the table after that time.  I can only think that Pelaga was aware of a different event. That resolved itself rapidly, and then the McCann incident followed on from that.

You reckon there was a clamour twice that evening over two missing kids?  What are the chances, eh?  Still, that would explain it.  Pelagia was alerted about the other missing kid but that still doesn't explain why the Tapas group had all rushed off by 9.40pm.  Do you reckon when they realised it wasn't a kid from their group they all came back to resume dinner until having to rush off again when Kate raised the alarm later?

[Brietta]

That would be natural.  The people associated with the missing child would get up.  Yet the Tapas 9 all claim to be at the table or getting back to the table after that time.  I can only think that Pelaga was aware of a different event. That resolved itself rapidly, and then the McCann incident followed on from that.

I think it is simpler than that.  Someone just made a mistake in the time.  Pelaga could have given the wrong time or more likely the person writing it down could have got it wrong.

I find it odd that the time given in that statement alone conflicts with all the others.

[Venturi Swirl]

I think it is simpler than that.  Someone just made a mistake in the time.  Pelaga could have given the wrong time or more likely the person writing it down could have got it wrong.

I find it odd that the time given in that statement alone conflicts with all the others.

Pelaga couldn't have given the wrong time as he was a senior professional chef and it's highly unlikely he would get his timings wrong.  As for someone writing down the wrong time, really?  I mean REALLY?  I don't think so.  Mistakes like that are virtually unheard of in PT police statements. 

[Lace]

I have never said Pelega's statement is "the most reliable witness statement". Once again, you are trying to put words into my mouth. My point has always been that the alarm could have been raised before 10pm, because various statements disagree with the T9 about the time.

Some of them disagree with their own timeline, in fact. If the alarm was raised at 22:14, as Gerry suggested, then Matthew didn't go to reception at 22:05 - 22:10 as he claimed, did he? The 'unknown woman' didn't tell the nannies about the disappearance at that time either.

Do you think that Gerry when he said the alarm was raised at 22.14  he meant they asked for the Police to be called alerting the Police that Madeleine was missing?

[G-Unit]

I think it is simpler than that.  Someone just made a mistake in the time.  Pelaga could have given the wrong time or more likely the person writing it down could have got it wrong.

I find it odd that the time given in that statement alone conflicts with all the others.

Except what Mrs Carpenter is alleged to have heard; someone calling 'Madeleine' way before 22:00. Then there's Weijdom who says he was told about the disappearance between 21:30 and 21:45
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm

[Lace]

Except what Mrs Carpenter is alleged to have heard; someone calling 'Madeleine' way before 22:00. Then there's Weijdom who says he was told about the disappearance between 21:30 and 21:45
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm

Or maybe she was wrong?

[G-Unit]

Do you think that Gerry when he said the alarm was raised at 22.14  he meant they asked for the Police to be called alerting the Police that Madeleine was missing?

No.

Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

[Venturi Swirl]

G-Unit is building a case for the alarm to have been raised much earlier in the evening than previously believed.  Her argument is quite compelling IMO.  Given that the alarm was probably raised prior to 9.30pm according to her research, we then have to wrestle with the conundrum of why, having raised the alarm some 40 minutes earlier, anyone wishing to conceal a body would choose then to carry the corpse uncovered through town knowing there was a good chance of bumping into seachers or even the police, who may have been called by that point for all the body occulter knew. 

We would also have to come to terms with the fact that the entire Tapas group chose to lie about the time the alarm was raised.

[G-Unit]

Or maybe she was wrong?

Perhaps it was the wind whistling through the resort.

[Brietta]

Except what Mrs Carpenter is alleged to have heard; someone calling 'Madeleine' way before 22:00. Then there's Weijdom who says he was told about the disappearance between 21:30 and 21:45
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm

Unfortunately we have never seen a statement made by Mrs Carpenter.  Nor have we seen Stephen's original statement so we only have his rogatory statement for comparison in which he says ...
"My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling “Madeleine, Madeleine”, this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine’s disappearance”.
___________________________________________________

My wife vaguely remembers hearing “Madeleine, Madeleine” and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television.
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8443-stephen-carpenter-rogatory-statement


He was there.  He heard nothing.  His wife said nothing until hearing the GMTV television breakfast news.

By your own preferred standards for provenance I do not think the hearsay attributed to Mrs carpenter fits the bill.