Author Topic: Timeline May 3rd  (Read 75813 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #645 on: July 07, 2020, 11:18:22 AM »
Redwood has already established  a window of opportunity for an abduction. I think right after Gerrys check at 9.05...in through the window...out through the front door to  a car waiting in the car park

Offline Eleanor

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #646 on: July 07, 2020, 11:24:15 AM »
Redwood has already established  a window of opportunity for an abduction. I think right after Gerrys check at 9.05...in through the window...out through the front door to  a car waiting in the car park

If the abductor wasn't hiding in the appartment already.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #647 on: July 07, 2020, 11:30:17 AM »
But he doesn't say it was the McCann child.  Surely if it was the McCann child the Tapas 9's table wouldn't be still wondering about their meals.

My point is that wasn’t “before 21:20”

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #648 on: July 07, 2020, 11:34:19 AM »
Redwood has already established  a window of opportunity for an abduction. I think right after Gerrys check at 9.05...in through the window...out through the front door to  a car waiting in the car park

In through the window without leaving a trace - I’m not convinced.  I’m presuming you can unlock the door from the inside without a key but perhaps you can confirm?

Offline Brietta

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #649 on: July 07, 2020, 11:36:23 AM »
Stephen Carpenter's original statement which was discussed during the rogatory interview gives the Carter family's departure from the the tapas as approximately nine thirty.
Which is at total variance with the information being used to suggest the official timeline is wrong and the new supposition is the correct one. 

I just don't think the changes necessary to allow this 'new' theory can't withstand scrutiny on very many levels and the Carpenters are only one level of that.

Neither does DCF ask anything here in confirmation of cries of 'Madeleine' and I think the question would have been asked had it been mentioned.

Snip
DCF: At what time did you leave the Tapas bar'

SC: I think it was at about half past nine.

DCF: I think that is what you said.

SC: Yes.

DCF: And you were accompanied, you replied that you were with your children and your wife. Where did you go afterwards, it says here...before going back to your apartment, can you describe the route you took'

SC: Directly to the apartment.

DCF: Did you see anyone outside the Tapas Bar or outside the apartments'

SC: If I saw anyone outside the Tapas bar or, hummm.. on the way home presumably'

DCF: Yes, is there anyone you remember that night, did you see anyone in the area'

SC: No.
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8443-stephen-carpenter-rogatory-statement
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 11:41:24 AM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #650 on: July 07, 2020, 01:10:37 PM »
You reckon there was a clamour twice that evening over two missing kids?  What are the chances, eh?  Still, that would explain it.  Pelagia was alerted about the other missing kid but that still doesn't explain why the Tapas group had all rushed off by 9.40pm.  Do you reckon when they realised it wasn't a kid from their group they all came back to resume dinner until having to rush off again when Kate raised the alarm later?
I must admit I've never been able to explain it fully.  I used to think he must have been intoxicated.  But I'd imagine others here would think that is unlikely due to his position.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 01:13:19 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #651 on: July 07, 2020, 01:16:24 PM »
In through the window without leaving a trace - I’m not convinced.  I’m presuming you can unlock the door from the inside without a key but perhaps you can confirm?

I'm not sure how thorough the forensic exam of the widow was...so no trace detected doesn't mean a trace wasn't left.
There no reason to think the door could not be opened from the inside

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #652 on: July 07, 2020, 01:28:51 PM »
Stephen Carpenter's original statement which was discussed during the rogatory interview gives the Carter family's departure from the the tapas as approximately nine thirty.
Which is at total variance with the information being used to suggest the official timeline is wrong and the new supposition is the correct one. 

I just don't think the changes necessary to allow this 'new' theory can't withstand scrutiny on very many levels and the Carpenters are only one level of that.

Neither does DCF ask anything here in confirmation of cries of 'Madeleine' and I think the question would have been asked had it been mentioned.

Snip
DCF: At what time did you leave the Tapas bar'

SC: I think it was at about half past nine.

DCF: I think that is what you said.

SC: Yes.

DCF: And you were accompanied, you replied that you were with your children and your wife. Where did you go afterwards, it says here...before going back to your apartment, can you describe the route you took'

SC: Directly to the apartment.

DCF: Did you see anyone outside the Tapas Bar or outside the apartments'

SC: If I saw anyone outside the Tapas bar or, hummm.. on the way home presumably'

DCF: Yes, is there anyone you remember that night, did you see anyone in the area'

SC: No.
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8443-stephen-carpenter-rogatory-statement
Apologies but I don’t entirely understand what you’re saying there. I suspect you’ve used a double negative where it wasn’t intended (“don’t think.... can’t withstand “). What your snip of the rogatory statement shows, imo, is poor police questioning. Could there have been political pressure not to stray from the “official” narrative? Here we have someone who has given testimony that his wife heard cries of “Madeleine, Madeleine” before the alleged alarm which supposedly happened just after 22:03. That’s now three independent witnesses that suggest the alarm was raised earlier and the Police fail to ask a question about it??? I do appreciate it’s only a snip and maybe the question comes later.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #653 on: July 07, 2020, 01:50:28 PM »
I think it is simpler than that.  Someone just made a mistake in the time.  Pelaga could have given the wrong time or more likely the person writing it down could have got it wrong.

I find it odd that the time given in that statement alone conflicts with all the others.

It doesn’t two other independent witnesses suggest an earlier time for the alarm being raised. And also look at the conflict that G-Unit points out between GM’s time for the alarm being raised and MO’s testimony about his first visit to Reception.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #654 on: July 07, 2020, 02:08:55 PM »
It doesn’t two other independent witnesses suggest an earlier time for the alarm being raised. And also look at the conflict that G-Unit points out between GM’s time for the alarm being raised and MO’s testimony about his first visit to Reception.

Returning to the beginning of the evening we also have Fiona Payne's statement;

She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE.htm

Around 20:45 includes just before that time as well as just after it. Her mother agrees with her time;

They left the apartment at around 8.45 and accompanied by her son-in-law and her daughter, they went to join the rest of the group at the "TAPAS" restaurant.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER.htm

Matthew Oldfield said;

That the last to arrive at the restaurant was the couple David and Fiona. That the latter arrived at the restaurant at around 9pm.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

So it took the Payne family 15 minutes to get from 5H to the Tapas? What's more, they arrived before Matt left to find them;

That around 9.05pm, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

No wonder Dianne categorically denied meeting Matthew on her way to the restaurant!
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Offline Eleanor

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #655 on: July 07, 2020, 02:20:01 PM »
Returning to the beginning of the evening we also have Fiona Payne's statement;

She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE.htm

Around 20:45 includes just before that time as well as just after it. Her mother agrees with her time;

They left the apartment at around 8.45 and accompanied by her son-in-law and her daughter, they went to join the rest of the group at the "TAPAS" restaurant.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER.htm

Matthew Oldfield said;

That the last to arrive at the restaurant was the couple David and Fiona. That the latter arrived at the restaurant at around 9pm.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

So it took the Payne family 15 minutes to get from 5H to the Tapas? What's more, they arrived before Matt left to find them;

That around 9.05pm, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD.htm

No wonder Dianne categorically denied meeting Matthew on her way to the restaurant!

What has this got to do with anything?  Unless someone wants to bring The Alarm even further forward.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #656 on: July 07, 2020, 02:21:49 PM »
What are we to do with this statement as it throw a spanner in the works somewhat?

Joaquim José Moreira Baptista

Occupation: Waiter

Place of Work: Tapas Bar, OC

Time/Date: 18H50 2007/05/06

Portuguese National

Comes to the process as a witness. He has worked as a waiter at the Tapas restaurant since 12th Feb 2007. His shift is from 16.00 – 24.00 except for Saturdays when he works from 11.30 to 19.00. The clients who frequent the restaurant are mainly English tourists staying at the OC resort.


When asked he says that he clearly recalls the appearance of the girl’s parents, he does not know their names, together with a group of English tourists who generally accompanied them, as for almost a week prior to the disappearance they would dine practically every day in the Tapas restaurant. On the occasions he saw the group dining at the restaurant he never saw the children.

When asked, he says he does not remember ever having seen Madeleine’s face, which only happened when he saw her photograph after the disappearance.

When asked, he said that during dinner the men from the group would leave the table, returning to the table a few minutes later. The witness says that he does not know where they went. These absences would last for about 15 minutes. He cannot say with what regularity these absences occurred.

The witness remembers these occurrences well as would often have to take a plate of food requested by one of them back, due to the guest’s absence, when he would find that the guest was not at the table when he came to serve the food.

When questioned, the witness says that he remembers on Thursday 3rd May, on the day of the disappearance, that the parents went to dine at the restaurant with the usual people. He cannot be precise, but the witness says that the group arrived between 20.00 and 21.00. He remembers there being about 9 people in total. He states that he received the food orders from the group.

Later, between 22.00 and 22.30, when the witness was in the kitchen, he was informed by a colleague that in the meantime a client had entered the restaurant shouting and that afterwards the whole English had left in a panic. The witness’s colleague told him that this individual had said that a child had disappeared. A few minutes later the witness noticed great agitation, with many people everywhere searching for the child.

From information that was coming out, the witness learned that the child was a girl, the daughter of one of the English couple and that she had been in a room nearby.

When asked, the witness says that at the time he was working in the restaurant and referring to the days before the disappearance, he never noticed anything unusual. He said that he was never asked about the habits of the English group nor any questions concerning children. He says that on the day of the disappearance from the time he arrived at work, he did not notice anything unusual.

When asked, he says that at the end of the evening the area surrounding the Tapas is quiet with little circulation of people.

He has no comments as to the motive for the disappearance.

No more is said. Read, ratifies, signs.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Brietta

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #657 on: July 07, 2020, 02:22:31 PM »
Apologies but I don’t entirely understand what you’re saying there. I suspect you’ve used a double negative where it wasn’t intended (“don’t think.... can’t withstand “). What your snip of the rogatory statement shows, imo, is poor police questioning. Could there have been political pressure not to stray from the “official” narrative? Here we have someone who has given testimony that his wife heard cries of “Madeleine, Madeleine” before the alleged alarm which supposedly happened just after 22:03. That’s now three independent witnesses that suggest the alarm was raised earlier and the Police fail to ask a question about it??? I do appreciate it’s only a snip and maybe the question comes later.
The purpose of providing a source is for members to substantiate what I have posted ... is for others to access it for verification and to make up their their own minds on points they cannot "entirely understand".

With respect may I suggest you backtrack to read the previous discussion on the thread concerning Carpenter and check the source provided to gain a better understanding of what is going on.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #658 on: July 07, 2020, 02:25:31 PM »
What has this got to do with anything?  Unless someone wants to bring The Alarm even further forward.

It's on topic, I think? It demonstrates the anomolies between witness statements and between their own statements as time passed.
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Result = happy posting.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Timeline May 3rd
« Reply #659 on: July 07, 2020, 02:25:58 PM »
It doesn’t two other independent witnesses suggest an earlier time for the alarm being raised. And also look at the conflict that G-Unit points out between GM’s time for the alarm being raised and MO’s testimony about his first visit to Reception.

What a pity to disagree ... but I think you and anyone else trying to adjust the established timeline to suit some agenda or other are totally misguided.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....