"Laughable eyewitness testimony"

[Chris_Halkides]

Doubtless an abject state of affairs. However, as I've already stated, it sets a dangerous precedent drawing parallels between cases; more importantly, our legal system is considerably more efficient and admittedly superior than English law (used in the Cardiff 3 case, I believe). Furthermore, the circumstantial evidence used in the LM case is far more robust and compelling than that of the C 3 case -- and there's not a chance in hell that JANJ was lying about SK's whereabouts on the evening of 30.06.03, and nor is there a chance in hell that JOSJ had anything to do with it as he was eliminated forensically and circumstantially.

Yet more glib and obtuse reasoning from you, FL. It won't do.

On the contrary, it is a mistake to keep one's field of vision narrowly on this case alone, when so many other cases around the world illustrate the need to follow correct procedures regarding eyewitnesses.  It is even more misguided to handwave away the many irregularities in eyewitness protocols that plagued this case.  The notion that Scotland has a better justice system that Wales (or England?) is an assertion without support.  Who eliminated [Name removed], the same police force that failed to process the crime scene remotely correctly?  The same police force that (without disput) violated LM's rights?

As to the robustness of the evidence, let us briefly examine a portion of the Fleming/Walsh evidence as an example.  One, against police instruction Ms. Walsh contaminated Ms. Fleming's memory then probably lied about it.  Her credibility is therefore nil, and Ms. Fleming's memory was rendered unreliable.  Moreover, Ms. Fleming was shown to be mistaken about the circumstances of seeing LM's photograph, further damaging her credibility.  On top of that, this was a dock identification, and every source I have consulted (and may have cited upthread in some instances) states in no uncertain terms that dock identifications are highly unreliable.  Then there is the questionable agreement between their description of LM vs. the description of people who actually knew him and saw him in Newbattle.  Furthermore, this was a sighting of a stranger from a car, hardly an ideal set of circumstances.  Finally, even if both Fleming and Walsh were absolutely correct, it would have little probative value anyway, putting LM a few hundred yards away from where he said that he was.
EDT
I left out the jogger, which suggests that the sighting did not take place where Fleming/Walsh said it did.

[Nicholas]

Ms. Walsh contaminated Ms. Fleming's memory then probably lied about it.  Her credibility is therefore nil

 

[Nicholas]

Recorded footage it the absolute proof of LM's arrogance and so forth. His defence were right to attempt to try and stop them being played, and we are not simply talking the 'bullying tactics' of the police here. As we had with the recordings of those calls to the emergency services, wiping out any attempt at scraping to show there was some form of normal reactions from this lad touching 15-yrs old.

What happened in those 8mins of a search had absolutely nothing to do with some super powers of a dog, it was a prop nothing more. There is good reason why his defence, did not attempt in the slightest to bring any claimed expert in as a witness, with NO certificates of any proper training. The evidence led around this was of showing that LM with his dog were not where he claimed to have been. You wipe out the claimed area, show without a doubt his dog was nowhere near this, dissolves any chance then of trying to claim his dog had alerted to something on the other side of that wall, for to even begin to scrape at any ability of tracking, it had to proved the dog was where he claimed it was - It wasn't. Therefore, what exactly was any family friend, who had a couple of hours with a dog playing fetch, going to do? Going to back up?

Two point A & B, they are 43ft apart. A is where there is a break in the wall, B is "parallel to" where the body of Jodi Jones lay in the woods. A is where the search trio, from the very first statement said they went directly to that break and not past it. A dog "pulling below" directly under the V shape, to then stand up against the break and "It's head was level" with it. To "scurrying" with its paws in the undergrowth of the V break. Nothing like the following:

A dog 'bounding, jumping up on a wall, pawing and "air sniffing" It happened "some distance, no more than 20 yards past the break" To drawing that map, to going over it with the police in fine detail. To then having them directly "parallel" to where Jodi lay in the woods. To state JaJ's and SK continued walking down whilst he had to go back to where he had noticed a break in the wall, to have access to that woodland. - Did not happen.

There is no "They all agreed the dog found Jodi then changed their minds" Not ever, it was always the following. In that 8mins approx:

Directly with his dog to the first break, he scales up the side of the wall, shines his torch quickly around the woodland beyond, down and hastes back in front. Wanders a few feet into the field and again hastes back in front, to again go directly (in the exact same fashion as the first break) to the next break in the wall, this time he went over into the woods.

This dog on a harness with a short rope (makeshift lead) attached to it. Directed and controlled by LM at all times. That was the change in the statements. That when they went directly to those break, that "pulling" on the short lead was by way of LM directing his dog which way to go and the dog pulling in that direction.

Not and never any dog let off on it's own with commands to 'find, seek' Not in any woodland, some 50ft away from any body. So no, there was no dog alerting to anything from that V break. And we can not scrub out LM's own evidence.

Put a toy up a tree? Let the dog loose, and tell it to find the toy. Off it runs scenting about and trying to find it - Not what was taken place here.

This JaJ and SK continuing, yes they did after he entered those woods, after watching him turn left. They (SK and JaJ's) walked no more than 15ft and LM shouted from behind them. They hasted back to the break and there he was again. LM had walked no more than 10ft and about turned, shouting out. His voice close still to AW also.

Why the rush, why not simply take it easy? - The police were involved, ready to arrive at that path at any moment. 10:40pm known to be missing. The police are called. 10:50pm and LM is offering to go to that path, to search (the initiator of any physical search, within minutes). 10:59pm and his on that path. 11:03pm and JuJ's is speaking with her mother on her landline, the search trio leave Mayfield after this call, it had taken them no less than 15mins to get ready. 11:20pm they catch sight of each other. 11:22 head down together. By 11:30pm he is in those woods and by 11:34pm he is calling 999 whilst AW is screaming by her grandchild's body.

So yes, dam right those time lines are neat. Around a 6-7 min walk from the start of that path to the V break, they headed off together near the first break in the wall. Bang, bang, bang.  The police barely arrived and barely filling in that missing persons report and that call comes through that a body had been found.

LM knew exactly where he was going. Absolutely nothing to do with any dog, a prop.

It doesn’t appear sadistic killer Luke Mitchell ever bothered to phone 999

11:39pm - Police control room telephoned killer Luke Mitchell whilst he was still on the other side of the V - woodland side - to find out where he was

Janine Jones Stated “The only time Luke showed any emotion was when he was on the phone talking to the police and we were shouting at him. He then started to raise his voice”
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JODI+JONES+MURDER+TRIAL%3A+%27Only+time+that+Luke+showed+emotion+after...-a0125974641

[Nicholas]

Why the rush, why not simply take it easy? - The police were involved, ready to arrive at that path at any moment. 10:40pm known to be missing.
 The police are called. 10:50pm and LM is offering to go to that path, to search (the initiator of any physical search, within minutes).
10:59pm and his on that path.
11:03pm and JuJ's is speaking with her mother on her landline, the search trio leave Mayfield after this call, it had taken them no less than 15mins to get ready.
11:20pm they catch sight of each other.
11:22 head down together.
By 11:30pm he is in those woods and
by 11:34pm he is calling 999 whilst AW is screaming by her grandchild's body.

Where did the idea that killer Luke Mitchell phoned 999 come from?