Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins night Madeleine was taken.

[Lace]

This is what Fiona said -

 'No, and that was the other thing, she kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'.


Fiona said 'they were fine'  'they were sleeping'     Looks as though the twins were just fast asleep.

Kate says in her book that the morning of the 3rd of May,  there was a stain on Madeleine's pyjama top,  she didn't know how the stain could have got there.   So,  with Madeleine missing,  she remembered the stain and wondered if Madeleine had been sedated and the twins too.   No doubt in my mind that she mentioned this to the Police,  but she was hysterical,  and it could have come out as sounding crazy.   Amaral said they worried about the twins from the start,  why?  if he hadn't been told anything.  Then they check the bed for sedatives. IMO

[Holly Goodhead]

This is what Fiona said -

 'No, and that was the other thing, she kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'.


Fiona said 'they were fine'  'they were sleeping'     Looks as though the twins were just fast asleep.

Kate says in her book that the morning of the 3rd of May,  there was a stain on Madeleine's pyjama top,  she didn't know how the stain could have got there.   So,  with Madeleine missing,  she remembered the stain and wondered if Madeleine had been sedated and the twins too.   No doubt in my mind that she mentioned this to the Police,  but she was hysterical,  and it could have come out as sounding crazy.   Amaral said they worried about the twins from the start,  why?  if he hadn't been told anything.  Then they check the bed for sedatives. IMO

In the following Panorama doc @ 2.49 in you can see/hear GM walking down the aircraft steps onto the airport carrying a sleeping SM over his shoulder.  The noise is considerable from the aircraft engines and GM talking into a microphone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqoj-pfBUnY&t=188s

[Holly Goodhead]

This is what Fiona said -

 'No, and that was the other thing, she kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'.


Fiona said 'they were fine'  'they were sleeping'     Looks as though the twins were just fast asleep.

Kate says in her book that the morning of the 3rd of May,  there was a stain on Madeleine's pyjama top,  she didn't know how the stain could have got there.   So,  with Madeleine missing,  she remembered the stain and wondered if Madeleine had been sedated and the twins too.   No doubt in my mind that she mentioned this to the Police,  but she was hysterical,  and it could have come out as sounding crazy.   Amaral said they worried about the twins from the start,  why?  if he hadn't been told anything.  Then they check the bed for sedatives. IMO

I haven't got to the part in the book re the stain on the pj top but this could be significant. 

As we know from all the high profile cases in the UK unfortunately pedophiles are not creepy looking men hanging around school playgrounds looking furtive and therefore easily identified and avoided.  They are everywhere and look and act normally.  I have often wondered whether one of the guests at the Ocean club had a suppressed unhealthy sexual interest in children which came to the surface seeing young children running around in swimwear etc.  Then knowing MM was home alone and accessible he (most likely a he but could be a she) entered the apartment and started off maybe just masturbating around MM (stain on pj top?) and things then got out of hand.  Maybe she woke and the perp realised she might recognize him and was of an age when she could relay verbally to her parents what had happened.  In a panic she was murdered and removed. 

From what little I know of this case at the moment I think the abduction theory is the least likely.  Either something along the lines of the above or woke and wondered and came to some harm. 

[Lace]

I haven't got to the part in the book re the stain on the pj top but this could be significant. 

As we know from all the high profile cases in the UK unfortunately pedophiles are not creepy looking men hanging around school playgrounds looking furtive and therefore easily identified and avoided.  They are everywhere and look and act normally.  I have often wondered whether one of the guests at the Ocean club had a suppressed unhealthy sexual interest in children which came to the surface seeing young children running around in swimwear etc.  Then knowing MM was home alone and accessible he (most likely a he but could be a she) entered the apartment and started off maybe just masturbating around MM (stain on pj top?) and things then got out of hand.  Maybe she woke and the perp realised she might recognize him and was of an age when she could relay verbally to her parents what had happened.  In a panic she was murdered and removed. 

From what little I know of this case at the moment I think the abduction theory is the least likely.  Either something along the lines of the above or woke and wondered and came to some harm.

The stain was brown,  Kate thought it might have been tea,  but didn't remember Madeleine having any tea. 

If woke and wandered [which I don't believe happened]  something I read online years ago said that if she had,  she would have been drawn to the lights and sounds of the Ocean Club. 

[Holly Goodhead]

The stain was brown,  Kate thought it might have been tea,  but didn't remember Madeleine having any tea. 

If woke and wandered [which I don't believe happened]  something I read online years ago said that if she had,  she would have been drawn to the lights and sounds of the Ocean Club.

Yes the latter featured in a dispatches docu where experts thought if MM woke and wandered she would tend to walk down hill (5a on a slope) towards the tapas bar are where lights were on etc. 

Could she leave by the front door?  I don't know what sort of lock it was and whether she could reach it?  Was the front door definitely locked?  I will have to read GM's ws again from a skim read he seemed unsure whether or not it was locked? 

A nearly 4 year old might have become disorientated in the dark and ended up anywhere with who knows who.   

[Brietta]

Yes the latter featured in a dispatches docu where experts thought if MM woke and wandered she would tend to walk down hill (5a on a slope) towards the tapas bar are where lights were on etc. 

Could she leave by the front door?  I don't know what sort of lock it was and whether she could reach it?  Was the front door definitely locked?  I will have to read GM's ws again from a skim read he seemed unsure whether or not it was locked? 

A nearly 4 year old might have become disorientated in the dark and ended up anywhere with who knows who.

Carlo D'Ambrosio described the lock as follows ...

Snip
We noticed that the cleaning personnel entered the apartment after one knock and did not give us time to respond. This was a bit bothersome and for this reason we would lock the door, and would leave the key in the inside lock.

After this precaution, the next day, the same thing happened and the cleaning woman entered even though the door was locked with the key in the lock.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm

We never found out how it was possible for a cleaning woman to enter after we had tried to prevent it.

[Holly Goodhead]

Carlo D'Ambrosio described the lock as follows ...

Snip
We noticed that the cleaning personnel entered the apartment after one knock and did not give us time to respond. This was a bit bothersome and for this reason we would lock the door, and would leave the key in the inside lock.

After this precaution, the next day, the same thing happened and the cleaning woman entered even though the door was locked with the key in the lock.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm

We never found out how it was possible for a cleaning woman to enter after we had tried to prevent it.

Thanks.  So when the parents left they locked the front door and left the key inside in which case, in theory MM could have opened the door?  Even if she was unable to reach she might have fetched something to climb onto?  And obviously if the cleaner was able to enter when the door was supposedly locked with the key in it then others might well have been able to do the same.   

[John]

A reminder everyone to keep posts convivial please. TY

[The General]

Thanks.  So when the parents left they locked the front door and left the key inside in which case, in theory MM could have opened the door?  Even if she was unable to reach she might have fetched something to climb onto?  And obviously if the cleaner was able to enter when the door was supposedly locked with the key in it then others might well have been able to do the same.

The patio door was unlocked.

[Eleanor]

I don't think I can cope with much more of this.  My brain is scrambled.  But not that scrambled.  Give me some Proof.  Or is that too much to ask?

[Holly Goodhead]

The patio door was unlocked.

Thanks.  When I first started looking at this case I thought poolside/patio door was the front and the car park/door was the back.  I now know it is considered by all concerned to be the reverse.

GM/KM claim they left the patio door unlocked but it seems the front door (car park side) was insecure too.

[The General]

Thanks.  When I first started looking at this case I thought poolside/patio door was the front and the car park/door was the back.  I now know it is considered by all concerned to be the reverse.

GM/KM claim they left the patio door unlocked but it seems the front door (car park side) was insecure too.

The patio door was left unlocked because it was impossible to lock it from the outside, which only compounds the initial decision to leave the kids unattended, in my humble, yet unerring opinion.
Why was it necessary to leave it unlocked? Pure convenience. Time saving. About a minute a trip by all accounts.

[Brietta]

Thanks.  So when the parents left they locked the front door and left the key inside in which case, in theory MM could have opened the door?  Even if she was unable to reach she might have fetched something to climb onto?  And obviously if the cleaner was able to enter when the door was supposedly locked with the key in it then others might well have been able to do the same.

One could have assumed that the investigators might have been able to make use of that information regarding what seems to have been a faulty lock ... but I don't think anyone thought about asking anyone anything until 2008 when they were winding up the case.

[Angelo222]

Thanks.  So when the parents left they locked the front door and left the key inside in which case, in theory MM could have opened the door?  Even if she was unable to reach she might have fetched something to climb onto?  And obviously if the cleaner was able to enter when the door was supposedly locked with the key in it then others might well have been able to do the same.

They didn't lock the front door.  It could be opened from the inside but not from the outside without a key.

[Lace]

Thanks.  So when the parents left they locked the front door and left the key inside in which case, in theory MM could have opened the door?  Even if she was unable to reach she might have fetched something to climb onto?  And obviously if the cleaner was able to enter when the door was supposedly locked with the key in it then others might well have been able to do the same.

Would Madeleine have put whatever it was she used to reach the door away after she'd opened the door?   There is nothing that says there was something near the front door that Madeleine stood on to reach the door to unclock it.

Madeleine didn't put her shoes on,  she didn't take Cuddle Cat.   

Then there is the open window.