Goncalo Amaral.

[The General]

I think your post is complete codswallop...no admission in front of her lawyer.... torture by PJ proved....but yes let's move on

We need to move on because I'm proved right.
And please don't insult me any further; I've recently been censured for referring to a gentleman as 'an internet dude', so I'm sure codswallop, as arcane and obsolete a term as it is, should attract similar moderator scrutiny.

[Venturi Swirl]

I have yet to see any definitive proof of this.  So a Cite would be useful.

If true why did a Portuguese court conclude she'd been tortured.  Sounds like codswallop to me.

[Mr Gray]

So is any conviction. In law she's guilty, just like any other convicted criminal. That's a fact.

No...shes guilty beyond reasonable doubt...according to the law. That doesnt mean guilty beyond all doubt...that doesnt mean she definitely murdered Joanna. it's possible she's innocent...that's a fact

[Venturi Swirl]

She's a liar and a perjurer and assisted a felon after a crime, anything more is doubtful.  Both she and her brother ultimately admitted that he did it.

the General has repeatedly claimed on this thread that she murdered her own child but she didn't actually commit the murder (if she was even involved at all), so could you sort him out for the sake of accuracy ta.

[Mr Gray]

Her lawyer, the one before Grade, was present at the questioning that elicited her confession but said nothing about torture.

You are believing myths...imo

[Venturi Swirl]

I think your post is complete codswallop...no admission in front of her lawyer.... torture by PJ proved....but yes let's move on

The General believes torture is an acceptable way to get a confession, it's not possible to have a reasoned arguement with him, so I wouldn't bother if I were you.

[Mr Gray]

We need to move on because I'm proved right.
And please don't insult me any further; I've recently been censured for referring to a gentleman as 'an internet dude', so I'm sure codswallop, as arcane and obsolete a term as it is, should attract similar moderator scrutiny.

You haven't been proved right. I referred to your post as codswallop. It seems the rules allow such descriptions of posts...but not the individual

[Venturi Swirl]

Thomas Quick admitted to killing loads of people and was found guilty of the crimes.  Does that mean he did them?  No.  It was only because of the parents of one of his supposed victims that his case was looked at again by the justice system in Sweden I believe, otherwise he'd still be languishing in jail, supposedly one of the most heinous serial killers in Swedish history. 

[Mr Gray]

the court verdict is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.....thats decided in the Uk by the Jury...its their decision base d on their opinion.

in the Cipriano case there were three judges...two found bguity...one not guilty. again tahts the opinion of the judges and not proof of absolute guilt

[Brietta]

Using that logic, it is only opinion that Ian Huntley murdered Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

Ian Huntley was not tortured during his police interrogation ... nor should he have been.

[barrier]

No...shes guilty beyond reasonable doubt...according to the law. That doesnt mean guilty beyond all doubt...that doesnt mean she definitely murdered Joanna. it's possible she's innocent...that's a fact

So its possible Amaral was right, its not been challenged in a court of law, thats a fact.

[faithlilly]

I have yet to see any definitive proof of this.  So a Cite would be useful.

The cite has been posted many times on this very forum over the years. I’m sure if you put it in the search facility you’ll find it.

[faithlilly]

Ian Huntley was not tortured during his police interrogation ... nor should he have been.

Nor was Cipriano.

[faithlilly]

https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/cipriano-case-leonor-cipriano-confessed.html

Leonor Confessed the crime on the 13th of October and she alleges she was beaten a day later

Leonor Cipriano, the killer meanwhile condemned, confessed all of this facts to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of  her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa, who has also signed statements that were given to the Inspector Pereira Cristovão. Leonor's brother, João Cipriano,  had previously confessed the crimes a few days before,  on the 8 of October.

Leonor is doing the 16 years that she was condemned to, but the Public Ministry [MP] considers that the mother was beaten in the PJ of Faro on the 14th of October 2004. For the Defense of four of the five accused inspectors, it would not make any sense the policeman in question to beat the suspect to get a confession, even because "both of them had already admitted that they were responsible for Joana's death", said the lawyer António Pragal Colaço

[barrier]

No...shes guilty beyond reasonable doubt...according to the law. That doesnt mean guilty beyond all doubt...that doesnt mean she definitely murdered Joanna. it's possible she's innocent...that's a fact

So despite having it on tape the torture of Lesley Anne downey the evil duo might not have done it, some logic that is.