Gerry and Kate's reaction to sniffer dogs didnt make sense new ninemsn article

[Benice]

IMO the bottom line is that if it went to court -  Martin Grime would be asked the following questions:

Q.   Is it a fact that wherever Eddie alerts and Keela doesn't - that means a dead body must have once been in that place? 

A.  'No it isn't a fact - as there are other scenarios that do not require the presence of a dead body - which would also result in an alert by Eddie.

Q. Is that why you state that Eddie's alerts must be corroborated to have any evidential value?

A.  Yes.

And that would be the end of that.

IMO

[Alfie]

Kate mentions her reaction in her book.

As I don't currently have access to my copy of the book perhaps you or someone could tell us what she says on first being told of the dog alerts then we can discuss whether her reaction makes sense or not.

[faithlilly]

No one knows what the dog indicated to Rob.

It matters not what any of us think. What does matter is how highly the PJ and OG regard the dogs and from the fact that OG requested cadaver dogs be present when investigating the mound in PDL some time ago I think we can guess it is very highly.

[Lace]

It matters not what any of us think. What does matter is how highly the PJ and OG regard the dogs and from the fact that OG requested cadaver dogs be present when investigating the mound in PDL some time ago I think we can guess it is very highly.

It seems the alerts by the dogs in 5a have not interested SY.

[Alfie]

It matters not what any of us think. What does matter is how highly the PJ and OG regard the dogs and from the fact that OG requested cadaver dogs be present when investigating the mound in PDL some time ago I think we can guess it is very highly.

That's like saying the Met highly regard the capabilities of shovels or earth movers or metal detectors.  The dogs are a tool, nothing more nothing less.  They are extremely useful but a) they're only as good as their handlers and b) they are not infallible and don't always find what they are looking for or find stuff that is irrelevant.

[slartibartfast]

Kate McCann says she was crying hysterically when the Police questioned her about 100% DNA being found belonging to Madeleine,   Kate McCann was fearing her child was dead.   Then they showed her the videos of the dogs and she realised this was what they were basing their accusations on.   Well if the McCann's knew they were innocent of any wrong doing in 5a,   then why would they react in shock and horror at the video of the dogs?  Kate McCann I believe was quite relieved when she saw the dog video and where the Police were getting their 'evidence'  she knew that there was no evidence as nothing had happened to Madeleine in 5a,  she had been abducted.

Thank you, there we have the strange attitude.

[faithlilly]

That's like saying the Met highly regard the capabilities of shovels or earth movers or metal detectors.  The dogs are a tool, nothing more nothing less.  They are extremely useful but a) they're only as good as their handlers and b) they are not infallible and don't always find what they are looking for or find stuff that is irrelevant.

A) Due to his inclusion in a select FBI team of dog handlers it would seem Martin Grime is a highly regarded handler.
B) They are not infallible but many alerts to items belonging to the McCanns and none to items belonging to any other person tells its own story.

[stephen25000]

Kate McCann says she was crying hysterically when the Police questioned her about 100% DNA being found belonging to Madeleine,   Kate McCann was fearing her child was dead.   Then they showed her the videos of the dogs and she realised this was what they were basing their accusations on.   Well if the McCann's knew they were innocent of any wrong doing in 5a,   then why would they react in shock and horror at the video of the dogs?  Kate McCann I believe was quite relieved when she saw the dog video and where the Police were getting their 'evidence'  she knew that there was no evidence as nothing had happened to Madeleine in 5a,  she had been abducted.

Sounds now you have telepathic communication with Kate Mccann.

[stephen25000]

We have been here thousands of times before,Lace.  Unfortunately as the old saying goes ... "None so deaf as those who will not hear."

Original Source: SUN: FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 05 2008

EXPERTS say sniffer dogs can play a vital role in fighting crime ' but warn it is 'madness' to rely on their findings.

The animals are used to lead police to evidence, but do not provide evidence themselves.

 
One expert told The Sun: 'The dogs can identify traces of blood, but it's crazy to draw major conclusions just from what they find.

'Any evidence they find should be used as a starting point. It's madness just to rely on the findings of the sniffer dogs.'

Handler Martin Grimes, who worked with his dogs on the Maddie case, admitted the animals offered no more than 'a guide'.

He said: 'They can identify traces of blood and detect the smell of a decomposing body, but that is as far as they go.'

Martin said his dogs Keela and Eddie would only give him an indication when they find what they are trained to detect.

Unreliable

He said: 'Blood could be invisible to the naked eye, but Keela will detect it. It doesn't matter if it's hundreds of years old.

'Eddie smells for the scent of a decomposing human body. He can detect any part of a human body that is decomposing ' hair, bones, flesh, anything.

'The smell of a decomposing body is very difficult to get rid of. It can easily be transferred to clothing and on to a person.'

A spokesman for the McCanns said: 'Dog alerts can be unreliable. The handler himself makes it clear in the police report that such alerts are meaningless without corroborative evidence. There was no such evidence.

'Gerry and Kate are not interested in dwelling on mistakes that were made. They and their investigation team wish to focus entirely on finding Maddie.'
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/SUN1_05_09_2008.htm


It was time to move on from the mistaken interpretation and reliance placed on whatever excited Eddie's excitable attention in the McCann apartment as soon as the forensic results entered the public domain.

Quote

‘The dog EVRD also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver’

The dog EVRD is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver.

He is not trained for ‘live’ human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of ‘fresh blood’.

They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being. Martin Grime

Quote

Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc.    Martin Grime

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm


What is so difficult to understand about that?

Yet for all your copying and pasting, the alerts remain.

[Alfie]

No need the above post is answer enough.

It would seem you appear to know better than the FBI what constitutes a 'good' dog handler.

Nope, like Kate I can watch the video and form an opinion.

[faithlilly]

Nope, like Kate I can watch the video and form an opinion.

An uneducated opinion. Do either you or Kate have any expertise in dog handling? Does Grime and Harrison?

[Mr Gray]

Yet for all your copying and pasting, the alerts remain.

And they tell us nothing

[stephen25000]

And they tell us nothing

They still remain and typing your mantra won't change my opinion, ever.

[Mr Gray]

They still remain and typing your mantra won't change my opinion, ever.

They tell us nothing
Maddie may still be alive according to the experts

[pathfinder73]

It seems the alerts by the dogs in 5a have not interested SY.

"He (Mark Harrison) gets to work immediately, supported by the Portuguese PJ and the investigators from Leicester and Scotland Yard."

"These [particular] dogs have been used successfully many times by Scotland Yard and the FBI."