The Quality of Witnesses in the Case.

[faithlilly]

Looking at the dismissing of witnesses by certain sections of this forum it would seem that this case, above any other, has had more merely mistaken or downright dishonest witnesses than in any other missing persons case in history. Just off the top of my head there's Pamela Fenn, Yvonne Martin, Martin Smith and his wife, the cleaner who saw the cot in the McCann's bedroom and of course the Gaspars, although I'm sure members can come up with many more.

Is it really believable that so many witnesses got things so wrong or is there another, more rational reason why these witnesses statements don't corrsspond with the official version ?

[Carana]

Looking at the dismissing of witnesses by certain sections of this forum it would seem that this case, above any other, has had more merely mistaken or downright dishonest witnesses than in any other missing persons case in history. Just off the top of my head there's Pamela Fenn, Yvonne Martin, Martin Smith and his wife, the cleaner who saw the cot in the McCann's bedroom and of course the Gaspars, although I'm sure members can come up with many more.

Is it really believable that so many witnesses got things so wrong or is there another, more rational reason why these witnesses statements don't corrsspond with the official version ?

With luck, people trying to help will contact the police (or be contacted by them) with what they think they've heard or seen, or doubts that they may have. Nothing wrong with that (unless malice is involved), but it's then up to the police to investigate further and validate what can be validated.

Unless initial statements have been followed up after a cooling period (bearing in mind the perhaps unconscious influence of news coverage), and can be cross-referenced to other information and judged to be accurate and reliable, then it doesn't mean very much, does it?

[faithlilly]

With luck, people trying to help will contact the police (or be contacted by them) with what they think they've heard or seen, or doubts that they may have. Nothing wrong with that (unless malice is involved), but it's then up to the police to investigate further and validate what can be validated.

Unless initial statements have been followed up after a cooling period (bearing in mind the perhaps unconscious influence of news coverage), and can be cross-referenced to other information and judged to be accurate and reliable, then it doesn't mean very much, does it?

So do you think all the witnesses mentioned above were accurate and reliable Carana ?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Looking at the dismissing of witnesses by certain sections of this forum it would seem that this case, above any other, has had more merely mistaken or downright dishonest witnesses than in any other missing persons case in history. Just off the top of my head there's Pamela Fenn, Yvonne Martin, Martin Smith and his wife, the cleaner who saw the cot in the McCann's bedroom and of course the Gaspars, although I'm sure members can come up with many more.

Is it really believable that so many witnesses got things so wrong or is there another, more rational reason why these witnesses statements don't corrsspond with the official version ?

I agree,  They are just playing follow thy leader. Kate and Team McCann, have every right to challenge any attack made upon them, but she does it with venomous,spite, Something we do see here.

The fact that they really can't be expected to remember everything on the day their daughter dissapeared, leaves me to belive they have got 'selective memory' perhaps the bits they do not recall are recalled by witnesses- why would they all lie? It makes no sense at all they have nothing to hide...

[Carana]

So do you think all the witnesses mentioned above were accurate and reliable Carana ?

I have no idea. It was up to the PJ to verify and cross-check.

Mrs Fenn's testimony, for example, could have been important and shouldn't have been that difficult to verify and cross-check, but it doesn't seem to have been. A bit late now.

[Lace]

So do you think all the witnesses mentioned above were accurate and reliable Carana ?

I would question Mrs. Fenn's recollection of what she heard and when she heard it.

The crying episode,   Mrs. Fenn said she heard a child crying on the Tuesday evening,  this child cried for three quarters of an hour, then the child cried 'Daddy'.

In my opinion,    what Mrs. Fenn heard was Amelie wake up crying,   she then woke Sean and Madeleine,   in my opinion Sean then cried,  and then Madeleine called 'Daddy'    she then went into Kate and Gerry's bedroom,  Gerry was just about to go into their bedroom.   

I think Mrs. Fenn got the timing wrong as this all happened later than she said it did.

In my opinion this night is also what Madeleine referred to when she said 'why didn't you come when Sean and me were crying'    she meant the Tuesday night in my opinion,   Sean and Madeleine were woken by Amelie crying.

[Lace]

The McCann's did have an extra cot in their apartment,  this was handed to one of the friends.

[G-Unit]

There's this one;

her job is to receive guests at the entrance to the Millenium restaurant and check whether they have to pay for breakfast or whether this is included in their package. She works from 07.00 to 12.00 from Tuesdays to Saturdays. She says that she only attends to guests at breakfast time except on Wednesdays when there is Barbecue Night at the restaurant and when she welcomes guests for dinner, working from 18.00 to 22.00.

When asked, she says that she knows the parents, the siblings and Madeleine. She received them for breakfast on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, she does not know whether they went for breakfast on Sunday or Monday, as these were her days off.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CECILIA-DFC.htm

She would definitely know their names as she was checking against the booking sheets, but six other Millenium workers agreed with her too.

[Carana]

There's this one;

her job is to receive guests at the entrance to the Millenium restaurant and check whether they have to pay for breakfast or whether this is included in their package. She works from 07.00 to 12.00 from Tuesdays to Saturdays. She says that she only attends to guests at breakfast time except on Wednesdays when there is Barbecue Night at the restaurant and when she welcomes guests for dinner, working from 18.00 to 22.00.

When asked, she says that she knows the parents, the siblings and Madeleine. She received them for breakfast on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, she does not know whether they went for breakfast on Sunday or Monday, as these were her days off.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CECILIA-DFC.htm

She would definitely know their names as she was checking against the booking sheets, but six other Millenium workers agreed with her too.

Did the other Millenium workers actually see the McCanns or was this hearsay based on what they'd heard from the receptionist, directly or indirectly?

Why would the rest of the Tapas group corroborate that the McCanns didn't go there for breakfast aside from that first morning?

[Alfred R Jones]

Looking at the dismissing of witnesses by certain sections of this forum it would seem that this case, above any other, has had more merely mistaken or downright dishonest witnesses than in any other missing persons case in history. Just off the top of my head there's Pamela Fenn, Yvonne Martin, Martin Smith and his wife, the cleaner who saw the cot in the McCann's bedroom and of course the Gaspars, although I'm sure members can come up with many more.

Is it really believable that so many witnesses got things so wrong or is there another, more rational reason why these witnesses statements don't corrsspond with the official version ?

How many other witness statements in missing persons cases have you been privileged enough to have been able to pick over at your leisure?

[Miss Taken Identity]

How many other witness statements in missing persons cases have you been privileged enough to have been able to pick over at your leisure?

Probably the same amount as you and 'supporters' have to vilify people you do not even know (who were at a 'scene of police interest') - on the say so of others you do not know! namely Team McCann.

Sound about right?

Can all the witnesses be wrong? what are the chances? The McCanns and tapas all claiming they do not have photographic memory of what happened! Time line, time line will some one give them a bloody beliveable timeline!  Purrrrleeez

[Alfred R Jones]

Probably the same amount as you and 'supporters' have to vilify people you do not even know (who were at a 'scene of police interest') - on the say so of others you do not know! namely Team McCann.

Sound about right?

Can all the witnesses be wrong? what are the chances? The McCanns and tapas all claiming they do not have photographic memory of what happened! Time line, time line will some one give them a bloody beliveable timeline!  Purrrrleeez

Thank you for your ill-considered rant.  You seem to have misunderstood.  Most people do not have access to numerous witness statements in a police investigation in order to judge whether or not this case in particular has an above average number of unreliable witnesses or not, so we're none of us in a position to answer the OP.  I do know however that the police are fully aware that witnesses are human, and that witness statements will not always be 100% accurate representations of actual events.  Some people tend to forget that.

[faithlilly]

Thank you for your ill-considered rant.  You seem to have misunderstood.  Most people do not have access to numerous witness statements in a police investigation in order to judge whether or not this case in particular has an above average number of unreliable witnesses or not, so we're none of us in a position to answer the OP.  I do know however that the police are fully aware that witnesses are human, and that witness statements will not always be 100% accurate representations of actual events.  Some people tend to forget that.

Strange that the unreliable witnesses are always the ones who don't support the McCanns claim of abduction.

[jassi]

Strange that the unreliable witnesses are always the ones who don't support the McCanns claim of abduction.

Yeah, funny that. One might almost think there was a conspiracy to do them down 

[G-Unit]

Did the other Millenium workers actually see the McCanns or was this hearsay based on what they'd heard from the receptionist, directly or indirectly?

Why would the rest of the Tapas group corroborate that the McCanns didn't go there for breakfast aside from that first morning?

The other witness statements are in the files under Millenium employees. I have no idea why the statements disagree.