UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => The Disappearance of Portuguese youngster Joana Cipriano (8) from the village of Figueira, near Portimão, Algarve, on 12 September 2004. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on March 24, 2019, 08:17:27 PM
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Leonor Cipriano released from prison after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
Published 7 Feb 2019
Leonor Cipriano – the Algarve mother jailed in 2006 for the murder of her eight year old daughter Joana – has been released after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
(https://www.portugalresident.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/tvi-leonor-cipriano.jpg)
Talking to TVI24 at the gates of Odemira jail this morning, she said she was leaving with her head held high.
“I am going to work. I have a little job. I don’t need to say anymore”.
But the questions remain. What really happened to tragic Joana whose body has never been found?
Leonor and her now estranged brother João admitted in court that they had killed the little girl at her home in Figueira, midway between Portimão and Mexilhoeira Grande.
João claims to have cut up her body and hidden it in a chest freezer. The child’s remains were later ‘fed to the pigs’.
“I didn’t hurt her, I just killed her”, João told the court which originally passed sentences on him of 19 years and two months, and on Leonor of 20 years and four months.
The prosecution’s case was based on the theory that Leonor and João were engaged in an incestuous relationship – and that they killed Joana for having walked in on them both in bed.
But there have always been those that doubted the story – neighbours particularly. And now Leonor has once again insisted that she had nothing to do with her daughter’s disappearance, least of all her death.
In the mists of this morning in the Alentejo she answered the question “what happened that night when Joana left to go shopping ?” with “she left and never came home. Anyone who says she came home is lying”.
Leonor claims the only reason she admitted to having killed the little girl was because she was tortured by agents of the investigating PJ police.
“They tortured me so much, they left me black and blue from so much punching that I reached the point where I didn’t know what I was saying…”
This too is a sore point in the case: PJ inspectors Gonçalo Amaral and António Nunes Cardoso were given suspended jail sentences for profering false testimonies over the beating.
The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
But back to Joana, and fact that a body has never been found. Leonor told TVI this morning: “I was condemned without proof. I did not kill my daughter I would never have hurt her”.
Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
https://www.portugalresident.com/2019/02/07/mother-jailed-for-killing-tragic-joana-released-to-get-on-with-life/
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I wouldn't believe a word that came out of this pairs mouth any more. She talks of looking for Joana despite previously blaming her brother for killing her. For his part, the brother again claims she was sold to foreigners after previously enacting how he cut her up into pieces before dumping her remains.
João Cipriano has now been jailed once for attempted murder and once for murder and is now walking the streets on parole. Glad he doesn't live anywhere near me.
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Their own mother apparently wants nothing to do with the pair.
Mum knows best.
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Leonor Cipriano released from prison after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
Published 7 Feb 2019
Leonor Cipriano – the Algarve mother jailed in 2006 for the murder of her eight year old daughter Joana – has been released after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
(https://www.portugalresident.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/tvi-leonor-cipriano.jpg)
Talking to TVI24 at the gates of Odemira jail this morning, she said she was leaving with her head held high.
“I am going to work. I have a little job. I don’t need to say anymore”.
But the questions remain. What really happened to tragic Joana whose body has never been found?
Leonor and her now estranged brother João admitted in court that they had killed the little girl at her home in Figueira, midway between Portimão and Mexilhoeira Grande.
João claims to have cut up her body and hidden it in a chest freezer. The child’s remains were later ‘fed to the pigs’.
“I didn’t hurt her, I just killed her”, João told the court which originally passed sentences on him of 19 years and two months, and on Leonor of 20 years and four months.
The prosecution’s case was based on the theory that Leonor and João were engaged in an incestuous relationship – and that they killed Joana for having walked in on them both in bed.
But there have always been those that doubted the story – neighbours particularly. And now Leonor has once again insisted that she had nothing to do with her daughter’s disappearance, least of all her death.
In the mists of this morning in the Alentejo she answered the question “what happened that night when Joana left to go shopping ?” with “she left and never came home. Anyone who says she came home is lying”.
Leonor claims the only reason she admitted to having killed the little girl was because she was tortured by agents of the investigating PJ police.
“They tortured me so much, they left me black and blue from so much punching that I reached the point where I didn’t know what I was saying…”
This too is a sore point in the case: PJ inspectors Gonçalo Amaral and António Nunes Cardoso were given suspended jail sentences for profering false testimonies over the beating.
The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
But back to Joana, and fact that a body has never been found. Leonor told TVI this morning: “I was condemned without proof. I did not kill my daughter I would never have hurt her”.
Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
https://www.portugalresident.com/2019/02/07/mother-jailed-for-killing-tragic-joana-released-to-get-on-with-life/
Thank goodness Leonor is finally freed. Do hope that the PJ stop bullying her. Glad to see that she looks as tho she has been kindly looked after at Odemira jail and that she already has a job lined up. I wonder if she will return to her home village, Figuiera; seems her neighbours believe in her innocence.
Thank goodness that some can see thru the imo disinformation and lies given out by the bucketful.
Now to find Joana, what truly happened to her.
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It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?
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It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?
What do you expect Leonor Cipriano to do? She is a Portuguese Peasant. What a pile of shite. How could you do this?
The Trial was a Farce by any normal standards. But if you think that Britain would have tolerated this then you have got a serious problem.
But then it was only Portugal and a Portuguese Peasant, so who cares?
I can only hope that Amaral and his like will one day wonder about what they did.
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How would anyone here know what Leonor Cipriano is or isn’t doing? Must we assume that as we’ve not read about it in the papers the answer must be nothing?
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What do you expect Leonor Cipriano to do? She is a Portuguese Peasant. What a pile of shite. How could you do this?
The Trial was a Farce by any normal standards. But if you think that Britain would have tolerated this then you have got a serious problem.
But then it was only Portugal and a Portuguese Peasant, so who cares?
I can only hope that Amaral and his like will one day wonder about what they did.
She has a profile now...she is no longer a Portuguese peasant. She has the support of most of the Portuguese people, according to Davel. I’m sure the media would provide her with the exposure she needs if she asks. She could crowdfund to raise money...with all those supporters worldwide who believe her innocent surely she’d be able to raise enough to hire a lawyer to clear her name ?
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She has a profile now...she is no longer a Portuguese peasant. She has the support of most of the Portuguese people, according to Davel. I’m sure the media would provide her with the exposure she needs if she asks. She could crowdfund to raise money...with all those supporters worldwide who believe her innocent surely she’d be able to raise enough to hire a lawyer to clear her name ?
could you at least try and get your facts right...not according to me...according to the Journalist Miguel Sousa Tavares
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Why is she no longer a Portuguese peasant? Is she on Portugal’s equivalent of Loose Women now or something?
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Why is she no longer a Portuguese peasant? Is she on Portugal’s equivalent of Loose Women now or something?
Well, whatever but surely she could jump on the germans bandwagon.
For publicity, IIRC JC was mentioned as one of his victims
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Well, whatever but surely she could jump on the germans bandwagon.
For publicity, IIRC JC was mentioned as one of his victims
Absolutely Kizzy. This would be an excellent time for her to restate her innocence.
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could you at least try and get your facts right...not according to me...according to the Journalist Miguel Sousa Tavares
You do know that your Portuguese journalist of choice didn’t even know that Cipriano had appealed the murder verdict and her appeal had been rejected.
Finger definitely on the pulse.
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Well, whatever but surely she could jump on the germans bandwagon.
For publicity, IIRC JC was mentioned as one of his victims
Pesonally I don’t think Cipriano is very bright. I doubt she’s particularly savvy about drumming up support on the internet or has a PR agent. Of course I may be underestimating her....
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Pesonally I don’t think Cipriano is very bright. I doubt she’s particularly savvy about drumming up support on the internet or has a PR agent. Of course I may be underestimating her....
I believe you have underestimated her
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You do know that your Portuguese journalist of choice didn’t even know that Cipriano had appealed the murder verdict and her appeal had been rejected.
Finger definitely on the pulse.
Do you remember a portuguese poster ...montclair...who told us there had never been a successful overturn of a verdict in portugal...they have such an unfit for purpose just system they just will not admit to one.
This is no place to go over the case again...it was a travesty...no evidence produced...just lies from the prosecution. One lie being that a spot of joannas blood was found. The fact was the sample was never tested and just presumed to be Joannas blood
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What do you expect Leonor Cipriano to do? She is a Portuguese Peasant. What a pile of shite. How could you do this?
The Trial was a Farce by any normal standards. But if you think that Britain would have tolerated this then you have got a serious problem.
But then it was only Portugal and a Portuguese Peasant, so who cares?
I can only hope that Amaral and his like will one day wonder about what they did.
Oh... Britain has had its own share of well documented misscarriage of justice cases.
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Oh... Britain has had its own share of well documented misscarriage of justice cases.
is that meant to be areason to ignore this one. The fact seems to be taht unlike the Uk portugal just wont admit to any
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is that meant to be areason to ignore this one. The fact seems to be taht unlike the Uk portugal just wont admit to any
I don't believe we should ever ignore suspicions of a misscarriage of justice - no matter where it happens.
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Do you remember a portuguese poster ...montclair...who told us there had never been a successful overturn of a verdict in portugal...they have such an unfit for purpose just system they just will not admit to one.
This is no place to go over the case again...it was a travesty...no evidence produced...just lies from the prosecution. One lie being that a spot of joannas blood was found. The fact was the sample was never tested and just presumed to be Joannas blood
Agreed it’s not the place to go over the case again. However it is the place to ask what Cipriano is doing to clear her name and find out what happened to her daughter.
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I don't believe we should ever ignore suspicions of a misscarriage of justice - no matter where it happens.
excellent
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excellent
It's not often we agree - but it does happen!!
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I believe you have underestimated her
Why do you believe that?
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Why do you believe that?
Again the journalist Tavares...who gave amaral avery rough ride in the interview...said Leonora was below average intelligence and simply not able to do what teh prosecution claimed in ordr to hide the crime
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None of this is even reasonable. And I mind that Leonor was treated like an idiot when no one proved that she was even instrumental in the supposed death of her daughter.
I am probably more cross about this than I am about Madeleine. And almost certainly more convinced.
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Agreed it’s not the place to go over the case again. However it is the place to ask what Cipriano is doing to clear her name and find out what happened to her daughter.
What the hell do you think she can do,
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What the hell do you think she can do,
As she said herself as she left prison, she‘ “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana.
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As she said herself as she left prison, she‘ “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana.
And you think she has the means to do this? Not just monetarily but intellectually as well.
I suppose that it has to depend on whether or not one believes her, or even if it was just an unsafe conviction.
In the light of a Portuguese Court finding that Leonor Cipriano was beaten while in the custody of The PJ one can only wonder how on earth they found her Guilty.
How were The PJ allowed to take her out of prison in the early hours of the morning without a Lawyer and then supposedly question her 36 hours. And then return her beaten black and blue. And then say that she fell down the stairs.
All I can say is thank Christ that this never happened to Kate McCann.
But it did happen to Michael Cooke some years earlier. And didn't The British Government do well on that one. He appeared In Court with half of his teeth missing and with a very battered face.
And people wonder why The British Ambassador was in Luz tout de bloody suite. He, whoever he was wasn't having this happening again.
I don't know if The Portuguese system has improved beyond Fascism. I only know that logical decisions made by younger Judges are so often Over Ruled by old facist farts who will rule in favour of The PJ who never get it wrong.
The very least that Madeleine has done for Portugal is to expose that. And if that little girl is dead then she will have done something for the very ordinary people of Portugal. I rest my hope in that, if nothing else.
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And you think she has the means to do this? Not just monetarily but intellectually as well.
I suppose that it has to depend on whether or not one believes her, or even if it was just an unsafe conviction.
In the light of a Portuguese Court finding that Leonor Cipriano was beaten while in the custody of The PJ one can only wonder how on earth they found her Guilty.
How were The PJ allowed to take her out of prison in the early hours of the morning without a Lawyer and then supposedly question her 36 hours. And then return her beaten black and blue. And then say that she fell down the stairs.
All I can say is thank Christ that this never happened to Kate McCann.
But it did happen to Michael Cooke some years earlier. And didn't The British Government do well on that one. He appeared In Court with half of his teeth missing and with a very battered face.
And people wonder why The British Ambassador was in Luz tout de bloody suite. He, whoever he was wasn't having this happening again.
I don't know if The Portuguese system has improved beyond Fascism. I only know that logical decisions made by younger Judges are so often Over Ruled by old facist farts who will rule in favour of The PJ who never get it wrong.
The very least that Madeleine has done for Portugal is to expose that. And if that little girl is dead then she will have done something for the very ordinary people of Portugal. I rest my hope in that, if nothing else.
No I don’t think she means it because I think, intellectually, she knows exactly where her daughter is.
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No I don’t think she means it because I think, intellectually, she knows exactly where her daughter is.
Yah. Bully for you.
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It seems that Cipriano was paroled in February last year and has vowed to keeping looking for her daughter. Do any those who believe that Joana is still alive know what steps she has taken in her goal ? Media appeals ? Balloon releasing ? Anything ?
According to CdM, she appears to live with another female inmate, but is seemingly still hounded by the media and shunned by locals.
Hardly suprising as the tabloid media portrayal of her, largely fuelled by the PJ of that era, may well remain achored in people's "recollection" of facts.
Of which there were precious little in the court trials.
To the Supreme Court's credit, there was an exceptional trial in which she was invited to give her own version of events. That went badly wrong, but IMO she was at the very least ill-advised by her legal counsel, who, IMO, was more than just eccentric...
Leandro appears to be trying to probe as to whether Christan B could be involved.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/quiz-madeleine-mccann-suspect-over-22165832
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According to CdM, she appears to live with another female inmate, but is seemingly still hounded by the media and shunned by locals.
Hardly suprising as the tabloid media portrayal of her, largely fuelled by the PJ of that era, may well remain achored in people's "recollection" of facts.
Of which there were precious little in the court trials.
To the Supreme Court's credit, there was an exceptional trial in which she was invited to give her own version of events. That went badly wrong, but IMO she was at the very least ill-advised by her legal counsel, who, IMO, was more than just eccentric...
Leandro appears to be trying to probe as to whether Christan B could be involved.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/quiz-madeleine-mccann-suspect-over-22165832
Thank you for that information Carana.
I’m afraid people’s recollections of Leonora are more coloured by the fact that she is a convicted child murderer rather than any portrayal of her in the media. That doesn’t tend to go down well with right-thinking people.
I absolutely agree that she was ill-advised by her counsel but she was also a very dishonest witness all through the process.
Nice to see Leandro still trying to earn a few euros from the disappearance of his daughter.
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I found this photo of Joana does anyone think she looks a bit like Madeleine
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=YoYNYHQY&id=20C1728E8B1B0567B8ACD01F016C18EE14628BF3&thid=OIP.YoYNYHQYjNMMgvoaSL9jggHaKN&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2f3.bp.blogspot.com%2f_FYaFsoKcaVA%2fSYXDocHGo0I%2fAAAAAAAAAqY%2fNriwQCvZaBo%2fs200%2fJoana4-1.jpg&exph=200&expw=145&q=joana+cipriano+what+was+she+wearing&simid=608055476349700863&ck=BDF323263FC6565008D346F3DDFCC00A&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0
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I found this photo of Joana does anyone think she looks a bit like Madeleine
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=YoYNYHQY&id=20C1728E8B1B0567B8ACD01F016C18EE14628BF3&thid=OIP.YoYNYHQYjNMMgvoaSL9jggHaKN&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2f3.bp.blogspot.com%2f_FYaFsoKcaVA%2fSYXDocHGo0I%2fAAAAAAAAAqY%2fNriwQCvZaBo%2fs200%2fJoana4-1.jpg&exph=200&expw=145&q=joana+cipriano+what+was+she+wearing&simid=608055476349700863&ck=BDF323263FC6565008D346F3DDFCC00A&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0
Not a bit.
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I found this photo of Joana does anyone think she looks a bit like Madeleine
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=YoYNYHQY&id=20C1728E8B1B0567B8ACD01F016C18EE14628BF3&thid=OIP.YoYNYHQYjNMMgvoaSL9jggHaKN&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2f3.bp.blogspot.com%2f_FYaFsoKcaVA%2fSYXDocHGo0I%2fAAAAAAAAAqY%2fNriwQCvZaBo%2fs200%2fJoana4-1.jpg&exph=200&expw=145&q=joana+cipriano+what+was+she+wearing&simid=608055476349700863&ck=BDF323263FC6565008D346F3DDFCC00A&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0
Yeah sure, if Madeleine had dark brown hair, brown eyes, dark skin & didn't look like Madeleine.
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I found this photo of Joana does anyone think she looks a bit like Madeleine
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=YoYNYHQY&id=20C1728E8B1B0567B8ACD01F016C18EE14628BF3&thid=OIP.YoYNYHQYjNMMgvoaSL9jggHaKN&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2f3.bp.blogspot.com%2f_FYaFsoKcaVA%2fSYXDocHGo0I%2fAAAAAAAAAqY%2fNriwQCvZaBo%2fs200%2fJoana4-1.jpg&exph=200&expw=145&q=joana+cipriano+what+was+she+wearing&simid=608055476349700863&ck=BDF323263FC6565008D346F3DDFCC00A&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0
Could be twins
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The police started collecting every statement they could from family, friends and dozens of other people from the village, including people from the village over where Joana used to live with her family before her mother divorced her father. Speculations about a kidnap were strong, especially since it's in Algarve (where Madeleine disappeared – surprise surprise), and a rumor of a man with a violent history of sexual assault being around the area that day.
I wonder who that man with the violent history of sexual assault was.
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I thought it was considered a paedophile's paradise, so there should be plenty of choice.
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The police started collecting every statement they could from family, friends and dozens of other people from the village, including people from the village over where Joana used to live with her family before her mother divorced her father. Speculations about a kidnap were strong, especially since it's in Algarve (where Madeleine disappeared – surprise surprise), and a rumor of a man with a violent history of sexual assault being around the area that day.
I wonder who that man with the violent history of sexual assault was.
I didn’t think Cipriano and Joana’s father was married.
That little girl had a terrible life.
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I haven't looked at the Joana case much. Thought I'd have a look and there seems to be confusion about what she was wearing the day she went missing, was it red shoes or orange flip flops?
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Thank you for that information Carana.
I’m afraid people’s recollections of Leonora are more coloured by the fact that she is a convicted child murderer rather than any portrayal of her in the media. That doesn’t tend to go down well with right-thinking people.
I absolutely agree that she was ill-advised by her counsel but she was also a very dishonest witness all through the process.
Nice to see Leandro still trying to earn a few euros from the disappearance of his daughter.
A good man Leandro. His work is dirty and he may look rough and ready, but I like him immensely. His heart is in the right place and he is plucky.
Leandro tried to fight the case afterwards, but was kicked in the stomach by Amaral according to reports. No I can no longer find it, but it was on the internet at the time. Maybe others will remember it. I wonder if he had other threats?
What a nasty comment to make Faith. I am surprised at you.
And your comments about Leonora, they are base. The trial was a shining example of INJUSTICE at its WORST
I must admit, saying the things that you have, I can't help wondering what your agenda is ?
What is your agenda Faith ?
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Probably female, going by the profile name.
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Probably female, going by the profile name.
Well done. With that razor sharp intellect you’ll be in the cabinet by next week.
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Could be twins
In a DeVito / Schwarzenneger way perhaps.
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In a DeVito / Schwarzenneger way perhaps.
Forget the hair colour eyes and skin just look at the outline of her face and the mouth.
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Forget the hair colour eyes and skin just look at the outline of her face and the mouth.
So forgot 60% of the image and concentrate on the remaining 40% - got it.
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So forgot 60% of the image and concentrate on the remaining 40% - got it.
(&^&
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The police started collecting every statement they could from family, friends and dozens of other people from the village, including people from the village over where Joana used to live with her family before her mother divorced her father. Speculations about a kidnap were strong, especially since it's in Algarve (where Madeleine disappeared – surprise surprise), and a rumor of a man with a violent history of sexual assault being around the area that day.
I wonder who that man with the violent history of sexual assault was.
Sound like they had a few - weren't there 600 suspects on the list.
So how can you guess - but apparently you can but only believing what you read imo
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Forget the hair colour eyes and skin just look at the outline of her face and the mouth.
Looking at some photos of Joana, there is something of a likeness. IMO. It is especially noticeable in the photos taken in or soon after the summer, where her hair is fair
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I didn’t think Cipriano and Joana’s father was married.
That little girl had a terrible life.
I've found nothing to confirm that she had a "terrible life" aside from the CdaM tabloid.
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I've found nothing to confirm that she had a "terrible life" aside from the CdaM tabloid.
How do we get most of our information?
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Ah. So tabloids are to be trusted again! Who knew?
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Ah. So tabloids are to be trusted again! Who knew?
Well wasnt it said IIRC and make of it what you will.
Leandro Silva, Leonor's common-law husband, said in 2007 that "the only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money.
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Well wasnt it said IIRC and make of it what you will.
Leandro Silva, Leonor's common-law husband, said in 2007 that "the only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money.
???
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???
...and they had a pen full of pigs (Silva).
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How do we get most of our information?
I went through the judgement of the murder trial, which is one of the most bizarre that I've ever read. Joana Morais & co translated half of it, but never got round to the rest, which is neutral to positive about Leonor.
I posted what I found on the Cipriano board.
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I went through the judgement of the murder trial, which is one of the most bizarre that I've ever read. Joana Morais & co translated half of it, but never got round to the rest, which is neutral to positive about Leonor.
I posted what I found on the Cipriano board.
There is anecdotal evidence that Joana and the rest of her brothers and sisters were treated very shoddily by their mother. Some didn’t even live with her.
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There is anecdotal evidence that Joana and the rest of her brothers and sisters were treated very shoddily by their mother. Some didn’t even live with her.
She'd had several relationships that didn't work out and she'd had only 3 years of education so could hardly bring them all up.
Life seemed to have got better when she got together with Leandro. AFAIK, he's always said he'd found her to be a good mum.
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She'd had several relationships that didn't work out and she'd had only 3 years of education so could hardly bring them all up.
Life seemed to have got better when she got together with Leandro. AFAIK, he's always said he'd found her to be a good mum.
A lack of education is no excuse for not being a good mother.
Leandro may have found her to be a good mum but I’m afraid that’s no recommendation. His family seem to have thought otherwise.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/family-refuses-to-accept-leonor.html
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A lack of education is no excuse for not being a good mother.
Leandro may have found her to be a good mum but I’m afraid that’s no recommendation. His family seem to have thought otherwise.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/family-refuses-to-accept-leonor.html
As I pointed out earlier, for some reason, the rest of the witness statements weren't translated.
This was a murder trial involving two defendants and 45 (?) witnesses, with no physical evidence, yet was done and dusted in only 3 days.
And some of the so-called "proven facts" were more than bizarre. As children normally get back home, it was deemed that it should be to taken as accepted fact that she did as well. That's just one example, I've posted quite a few more on the Cipriano sub-forum.
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As I pointed out earlier, for some reason, the rest of the witness statements weren't translated.
This was a murder trial involving two defendants and 45 (?) witnesses, with no physical evidence, yet was done and dusted in only 3 days.
And some of the so-called "proven facts" were more than bizarre. As children normally get back home, it was deemed that it should be to taken as accepted fact that she did as well. That's just one example, I've posted quite a few more on the Cipriano sub-forum.
The point I made was that Cipriano was a poor mother and as a result Joana”s life was not as a child’s should have been.
Cipriano appealed her conviction several times and they were turned down. So several judges must have thought the evidence adequate. To be fair we only have part of the evidence put before the court and much of that from translated newspaper reports.
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A lack of education is no excuse for not being a good mother.
Leandro may have found her to be a good mum but I’m afraid that’s no recommendation. His family seem to have thought otherwise.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/family-refuses-to-accept-leonor.html
IMO, photographs of a happy Joana, along with photographs of Leonoras other children indicate that she was a good mother. With limited means she kept her children clean and well dressed.
I think that disinformation was put about to make Leonor into something that she wasn't. Remember the photo of her wearing black … so she must have known Joana was dead, they said. Then full length photos showed the truth … Leonor was wearing bright red trousers.
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A lack of education is no excuse for not being a good mother.
Leandro may have found her to be a good mum but I’m afraid that’s no recommendation. His family seem to have thought otherwise.
https://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/family-refuses-to-accept-leonor.html
My point re education is that her job prospects were unlikely to help pay for bringing up all her children.
Aside from some disgruntled former in-laws, the only statement, from memory, that I found potentially concerning was the one from the shop owner who befriended her, and took her to a hospital for a bad cough, and seems to have hinted at potential sexual abuse, but she left for the UK shortly after she disappeared.
I had a look for any evidence presented in court about sexual abuse, but didn't find anything relevant.
As a side note, when the torture saga first emerged, I initially took it as given that they were indeed guilty of murder. It was only when I was able to wade through the murder trial that I started to realise what a shambles both the investigation and the trial actually were.
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The point I made was that Cipriano was a poor mother and as a result Joana”s life was not as a child’s should have been.
Cipriano appealed her conviction several times and they were turned down. So several judges must have thought the evidence adequate. To be fair we only have part of the evidence put before the court and much of that from translated newspaper reports.
The transcript from the trial is on this forum for all to see. Anyone who condones the proven beating cannot understand what the word justice means.
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The transcript from the trial is on this forum for all to see. Anyone who condones the proven beating cannot understand what the word justice means.
I’m guessing the same people condoning a little bit of rough justice on this particular suspect are also the same people screaming blue murder about police brutality in America.
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I’m guessing the same people condoning a little bit of rough justice on this particular suspect are also the same people screaming blue murder about police brutality in America.
But if someone could, yer know, give this guy a bit of a reminder to get him to squeal, given that he's about to waltz off in to the sunset and apparently 'he's the dude', you'd condone that, right?
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But if someone could, yer know, give this guy a bit of a reminder to get him to squeal, given that he's about to waltz off in to the sunset and apparently 'he's the dude', you'd condone that, right?
no
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no
Come on Daveage, what about subtle coercion alluding to non-existent evidence or witnesses? Camaaarn, just a wee bit.......
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Come on Daveage, what about subtle coercion alluding to non-existent evidence or witnesses? Camaaarn, just a wee bit.......
The wind up doesn't work
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The wind up doesn't work
'.....listen punk. We got you in a camper van and / or Jag parked opposite 5A with your pals George Harrison, 70's Casual Man and an Egg Man. NOW GIVE IT UP!'
Of course it works.
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I have been looking at the forensic evidence, they said the blood on the mop, correct me if I'm wrong had human blood and animal blood on it. I wonder if they had butchered an animal in their kitchen and the mother cut herself? That would account for the blood in the freezer? I can't see where they have found DNA of Joana.
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I have been looking at the forensic evidence, they said the blood on the mop, correct me if I'm wrong had human blood and animal blood on it. I wonder if they had butchered an animal in their kitchen and the mother cut herself? That would account for the blood in the freezer? I can't see where they have found DNA of Joana.
There doesn't appear to be any evidence of her blood, and even if there had been a speck or two somewhere in the house, in any normal investigation, it would need to be established beyond any reasonable doubt (the PT term escapes me for the moment) that the traces were due to murder as opposed to any innocent explanation, e.g., nicked finger, scraped knee...
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IMO, photographs of a happy Joana, along with photographs of Leonoras other children indicate that she was a good mother. With limited means she kept her children clean and well dressed.
I think that disinformation was put about to make Leonor into something that she wasn't. Remember the photo of her wearing black … so she must have known Joana was dead, they said. Then full length photos showed the truth … Leonor was wearing bright red trousers.
Most of Cipriano’s children was cared for by other people.
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Most of Cipriano’s children was cared for by other people.
it really is apointless argumnet....IMO looking at the evidence she is most probably innocent....all the points ahve been argued before. tYou think shes guilty ...thats it.
Do you support her proven beating at the hands of the PJ...you probably deny that too
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Most of Cipriano’s children was cared for by other people.
Yep, with their real father. They would be the older children, I think
And Joana was cared for by Leonora and Leandro along with his children.
Many years ago, I read on the internet that Leonora was working in the fields and she was raped / coerced at the age of 13. That is paedophilia.
As a Roman Catholic, she would have several children.
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Come on Daveage, what about subtle coercion alluding to non-existent evidence or witnesses? Camaaarn, just a wee bit.......
It is an interesting point. I wonder what the sceptics raection would be if CB appeared in court with severe bruising from a beating having confessed
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It is an interesting point. I wonder what the sceptics raection would be if CB appeared in court with severe bruising from a beating having confessed
Tough question. All sceptics? How do we define 'sceptics'? Are there gradations of scepticism? The factor in the character traits of the varying gradations of sceptic.
Personally, I'd be thinking omelette / eggs, or he'd spent a few hours in gen pop.
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it really is apointless argumnet....I would say looking at the evidence she is most probably innocent....all the points ahve been argued before. tYou think shes guilty ...thats it.
Do you support her proven beating at the hands of the PJ...you probably deny that too
I don’t deny that she had bruising. I do question the source, the extent and the timing of that bruising.
Cipriano is a proven liar...I think that is beyond dispute no matter what side of the debate you are on.
Experts have questioned the authenticity of the photographs of her bruising. There was also talk that Cipriano received a beating at the hands of her fellow inmates....they don’t seem to like child murderers, strangely enough. Her lawyer was with her when she gave her confession and details no violence from the PJ. Her story has changed several times. She identified several PJ as being involved in her beating, while at the same time saying she had a bag over her head.
I think that’s enough to doubt her story.
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I don’t deny that she had bruising. I do question the source, the extent and the timing of that bruising.
Cipriano is a proven liar...I think that is beyond dispute no matter what side of the debate you are on.
Experts have questioned the authenticity of the photographs of her bruising. There was also talk that Cipriano received a beating at the hands of her fellow inmates....they don’t seem to like child murderers, strangely enough. Her lawyer was with her when she gave her confession and details no violence from the PJ. Her story has changed several times. She identified several PJ as being involved in her beating, while at the same time saying she had a bag over her head.
I think that’s enough to doubt her story.
Funny really. Cipriano - convicted child killer - unimpeachable, Amaral - alleged perjurer - beast.
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Funny really. Cipriano - convicted child killer - unimpeachable, Amaral - alleged perjurer - beast.
You don't half know how to nit pick. 8(>((
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I don’t deny that she had bruising. I do question the source, the extent and the timing of that bruising.
Cipriano is a proven liar...I think that is beyond dispute no matter what side of the debate you are on.
Experts have questioned the authenticity of the photographs of her bruising. There was also talk that Cipriano received a beating at the hands of her fellow inmates....they don’t seem to like child murderers, strangely enough. Her lawyer was with her when she gave her confession and details no violence from the PJ. Her story has changed several times. She identified several PJ as being involved in her beating, while at the same time saying she had a bag over her head.
I think that’s enough to doubt her story.
the PJ admitted they were there when the injuries occuuured...they said she had fallen down the stairs...this was proven to be untrue.
Once convicted if she continued to protest her innocence she would not get parole so imo was forced to invent several scenarios to try and get aprole...the truth wouldnt be of any use. Obviously she could recognise officers before having the bag put on.
Id say thats enough to believe her
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What Amaral did was believe, and repeat the contents of Antonio Cardoso's report. The report described how Cipriano fell on the stairs. The court decided that she didn't fall, she was tortured. Therefore Cardoso's report was false, and he was convicted of forging the document. Amaral was convicted of making a false deposition, the assumption being that he knew the report was false.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id248.htm
What I haven't seen is 'overwhelming evidence' that Amaral knew that the report was false.
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What Amaral did was believe, and repeat the contents of Antonio Cardoso's report. The report described how Cipriano fell on the stairs. The court decided that she didn't fall, she was tortured. Therefore Cardoso's report was false, and he was convicted of forging the document. Amaral was convicted of making a false deposition, the assumption being that he knew the report was false.
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id248.htm
What I haven't seen is 'overwhelming evidence' that Amaral knew that the report was false.
Are you suggesting that amaral didn't know she was tortured
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Are you suggesting that amaral didn't know she was tortured
I'm suggesting there's no overwhelming evidence that he knew.
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I'm suggesting there's no overwhelming evidence that he knew.
As I understand...he was present in the building...this torture an isolated incident by his team...he was close to his team...i think its ridiculous to suggest he didnt know
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This is quite the norm in places like Spain and Portugual.
Amaral was responsible for these police officers and the fact that they thought it was acceptable to beat up this woman on his watch speaks volumes about him.
His collusion in attempting to cover it up and for which he was convicted confirms this.
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As I understand...he was present in the building...this torture an isolated incident by his team...he was close to his team...i think its ridiculous to suggest he didnt know
As I understand it he was not present in the building, so it's not ridiculous to suggest he knew only what he was told.
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As I understand it he was not present in the building, so it's not ridiculous to suggest he knew only what he was told.
Amaral wasn't present at his place of work at any time during this protracted "Interview?" What was he doing then?
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As I understand it he was not present in the building, so it's not ridiculous to suggest he knew only what he was told.
Do you have a cite he wasn't present.... He covered up the beating... He must have known the truth. As you saying he saw, cipriano and didn't realize what had happened to her
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Do you have a cite he wasn't present.... He covered up the beating... He must have known the truth. As you saying he saw, cipriano and didn't realize what had happened to her
She threw herself down the stairs. These child killers are capable of just about anything.
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Do you have a cite he wasn't present.... He covered up the beating... He must have known the truth. As you saying he saw, cipriano and didn't realize what had happened to her
Where is your cite that he was present?
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She threw herself down the stairs. These child killers are capable of just about anything.
The Court didn't agree with you.
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Where is your cite that he was present?
So where was he when he should have been working? He was only a coordinator after all.
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Where is your cite that he was present?
I said he was in the building.. Hoe else could he verify who wsd on duty
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So where was he when he should have been working? He was only a coordinator after all.
Did it happen at a time when he was supposed to be working?
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But if someone could, yer know, give this guy a bit of a reminder to get him to squeal, given that he's about to waltz off in to the sunset and apparently 'he's the dude', you'd condone that, right?
Certainly not. Unlike you I don’t approve of police brutality and torture.
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Did it happen at a time when he was supposed to be working?
Nearly two days. Did he take time off when he felt like it?
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the PJ admitted they were there when the injuries occuuured...they said she had fallen down the stairs...this was proven to be untrue.
There is no confirmation she confessed prior to the beating...seems to me a story made up.
Once convicted if she continued to protest her innocence she would not get parole so imo was forced to invent several scenarios to try and get aprole...the truth wouldnt be of any use. Obviously she could recognise officers before having the bag put on.
Id say thats enough to believe her
Cipriano’s lawyer wasn’t with her when she confessed.
You don’t have to ‘invent a scenario’ to gain parole. You simply need to admit that you are guilty and show remorse.
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Cipriano’s lawyer wasn’t with her when she confessed.
You don’t have to ‘invent a scenario’ to gain parole. You simply need to admit that you are guilty and show remorse.
That's the point... To gain parole you have to admit guilt..
Did you mean her lawyer WAS with her when she confessed... I don't think so
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Karen - Urban Dictionarywww.urbandictionary.com › define › term=Karen
The stereotypical name associated with rude, obnoxious and insufferable middle aged white women
Thanks, that explains it - The General was just being insulting as per usual.
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Did it happen at a time when he was supposed to be working?
Oh, I ged it. He was at a restaurant having Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner on a normal working day.
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That's the point... To gain parole you have to admit guilt..
Did you mean her lawyer WAS with her when she confessed... I don't think so
But the different scenarios she put her name to didn’t involve her murdering her daughter...the crime she was convicted of. She’d have to have admitted to murdering her child and show remorse for the act to gain parole.
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Oh, I ged it. He was at a restaurant having Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner on a normal working day.
I wouldn't know what hours/days he worked. All I asked is if there's evidence that he was there when this alleged torture occured. It seems there's no evidence he was.
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I wouldn't know what hours/days he worked. All I asked is if there's evidence that he was there when this alleged torture occured. It seems there's no evidence he was.
Could you please explain why he got a two year suspended sentence if he didn’t witness the torture and wasn’t even in the building when it happened?
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...and yet, here we are, the same judicial system in both cases.......
Seems it's biased, dontcha think ?
Or maybe it is old school (pre revolution) ways versus modern fair Jurisdiction ?
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Could you please explain why he got a two year suspended sentence if he didn’t witness the torture and wasn’t even in the building when it happened?
Of course he knew what happened; he was head honcho. He directed everything.
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I wouldn't know what hours/days he worked. All I asked is if there's evidence that he was there when this alleged torture occured. It seems there's no evidence he was.
The torture was not "alleged". Leonor Cipriano was tortured.
Torture and other ill-treatment
Criminal investigations into allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by law enforcement officials continued in 2009.
On 22 May the Criminal Court of Faro issued its sentence in the case of the torture of Leonor Cipriano. The court recognized that she had been tortured in police custody in 2004, but acquitted all three police officers, claiming that it was impossible to identify exactly who had been responsible. A fourth officer was convicted of giving false testimony and another was convicted of falsifying documents. Leonor Cipriano's appeal was pending at the end of the year.
https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?page=search&docid=4c03a80829&skip=0&query=torture%20leonor%20cipriano&coi=PRT
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The torture was not "alleged". Leonor Cipriano was tortured.
Torture and other ill-treatment
Criminal investigations into allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by law enforcement officials continued in 2009.
On 22 May the Criminal Court of Faro issued its sentence in the case of the torture of Leonor Cipriano. The court recognized that she had been tortured in police custody in 2004, but acquitted all three police officers, claiming that it was impossible to identify exactly who had been responsible. A fourth officer was convicted of giving false testimony and another was convicted of falsifying documents. Leonor Cipriano's appeal was pending at the end of the year.
https://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?page=search&docid=4c03a80829&skip=0&query=torture%20leonor%20cipriano&coi=PRT
And the same judicial system found Cipriano guilty of murdering her own small daughter.
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Amaral was responsible for these police officers and the fact that they thought it was acceptable to beat up this woman on his watch speaks volumes about him.
His collusion in attempting to cover it up and for which he was convicted confirms this.
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Could you please explain why he got a two year suspended sentence if he didn’t witness the torture and wasn’t even in the building when it happened?
The court decided he knew about the torture, so he got an 18 month suspended sentence for repeating to the court what Cardoso said in his report.
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I wouldn't know what hours/days he worked. All I asked is if there's evidence that he was there when this alleged torture occured. It seems there's no evidence he was.
According to his court testimony, he says he was in his office waiting for news of the fridge...
28. No dia 14 de Março de 2005, na fase de inquérito do presente processo, nos Serviços do Ministério Públicoda comarca de Faro, o arguido Gonçalo Sousa Amaral foi inquirido como testemunha, após prestar juramento;
29. Inquirido sobre o ocorrido com a Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano nos dias 14 e 15 de Outubro de 2004 e quanto ás lesões que esta sofreu, declarou nomeadamente que cerca da 1 hora da manhã de 15/10/2004 “ainda se encontrava no seu gabinete a aguardar o resultado de uma deslocação do inspector-chefe Leonel Marques e mais dois inspectores á localidade de Figueira, a fim de verificarem a existência de uma arca frigorífica com vestígios de sangue; ouviu então barulho e vozes, pelo que saiu do gabinete e foi ver o que se passava; verificou que na escada se encontrava a detida e o inspector Cardoso e um outro que não tem certeza se seria o Marques Bom ou o Pereira Cristóvão; perguntou o que é que se tinha passado, ao que o inspector Cardoso lhe respondeu que a detida tinha ido á casa de banho, e á saída tinha-se atirado pelas escadas; perguntou á detida se era verdade, ao que ela respondeu afirmativamente; perguntou-lhe se queria ir ao hospital, ao que ela respondeu que não”;
Processonº 1503/04.3TAFAR13
28. On March 14, 2005, during the investigation phase of the present case, at the Public Prosecutor's Office in Faro, defendant Gonçalo Sousa Amaral was questioned as a witness, after taking an oath;
29. Asked about what happened to Leonor Maria Domingos Cipriano on the 14th and 15th of October 2004 and about the injuries that she suffered, hhe stated, namely, that at 1 am on 10/15/2004 “he was still in hisoffice awaiting the result of a visit by Chief Inspector Leonel Marques and two other inspectors to the locality of Figueira, in order to verify the existence of a refrigerator with traces of blood; then he heard noise and voices, so he left the office and went to see what was going on; he found that the detainee and inspector Cardoso and another, who is not sure whether it was Marques Bom or Pereira Cristóvão, were on the stairs; he asked what had happened, to which Inspector Cardoso replied that the detainee had gone to the bathroom, and on the way out she had thrown herself up the stairs; he asked the detainee if it was true, to which she answered affirmatively; asked her if she wanted to go to the hospital, to which she replied that she didn’t ”; [/ i]
http://home.iscte-iul.pt/~apad/ACED_juristas/maddietrab_ficheiros/Acordao%20Leonor%20Cipriano%20contra%20Goncalo%20e%20outros.%2022Maio2009.pdf
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The court decided he knew about the torture, so he got an 18 month suspended sentence for repeating to the court what Cardoso said in his report.
I would say it would be inconceivable taht Amaral did not know exactly what happened to Cipriano. Amaral was found guilty of false testimony....he helped cover up the torture...its about time you accepted that. Do you accept the beating of suspects is totally unacceptable
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The court decided he knew about the torture, so he got an 18 month suspended sentence for repeating to the court what Cardoso said in his report.
it seems he got the sentence for telling direct lies in court. For saying he asked cipriano if she had fallen down the stairs...and she replied yes...a direct and absolute lie to the court
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The court decided he knew about the torture, so he got an 18 month suspended sentence for repeating to the court what Cardoso said in his report.
How did he know about it if he didn’t see it and he wasn’t there?
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How did he know about it if he didn’t see it and he wasn’t there?
according to the court report on amarals statement he heard the noise as he was in another room...came in to see Cipriano on the floor...asked her if she had fallen down stairs to which amaral claimed she replied yes....the court ruled he lied
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according to the court report on amarals statement he heard the noise as he was in another room...came in to see Cipriano on the floor...asked her if she had fallen down stairs to which amaral claimed she replied yes....the court ruled he lied
So by his own admission he was there at the time.
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So by his own admission he was there at the time.
yes he admits being in an ajoining room...there is just so much disinformation and lies being told
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yes he admits being in an ajoining room...there is just so much disinformation and lies being told
And Leonor never made a sound while she was being beaten up and made to kneel on glass ashtrays.
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yes he admits being in an ajoining room...there is just so much disinformation and lies being told
Probably making the tea and generally co-ordinating.
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Probably making the tea and generally co-ordinating.
....or on a booze-fuelled 3 hour lunch.
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....or on a booze-fuelled 3 hour lunch.
That was earlier in the day.
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That was earlier in the day.
....or on a booze-fuelled 3 hour afternoon tea.
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....or on a booze-fuelled 3 hour afternoon tea.
If you say so - I’m sure you’re right.
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If you say so - I’m sure you’re right.
So he wasn't there for at least 6 hours, I think we can agree.
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So he wasn't there for at least 6 hours, I think we can agree.
if he knew the Pj were investigatibg CB around 10 years after he left then he knew Cipriano was beaten.
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....or on a booze-fuelled 3 hour afternoon tea.
Makes the PJ sound like they're right out of "Life On Mars"....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9unL2Jfj__U
Can't say I think much of UK Police methods circa 1973..... but love the Mk3 Cortina!!!
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https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/joana/leonor-cipriano-sai-em-liberdade-vou-a-procura-da-minha-filha
Leonor Cipriano still maintaining her innocence when she was released from prison.
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https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/joana/leonor-cipriano-sai-em-liberdade-vou-a-procura-da-minha-filha
Leonor Cipriano still maintaining her innocence when she was released from prison.
Yet strangely not making the least effort to find her daughter.
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https://tvi24.iol.pt/sociedade/joana/leonor-cipriano-sai-em-liberdade-vou-a-procura-da-minha-filha
Leonor Cipriano still maintaining her innocence when she was released from prison.
It's a pity that we can't let her know that there are quite a group of people in the UK who support her against the injustices of the case against her.
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It's a pity that we can't let her know that there are quite a group of people in the UK who support her against the injustices of the case against her.
Maybe Shinning in Luz could do her a favour.
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Yet strangely not making the least effort to find her daughter.
How would she go about finding her daughter? People say this about the McCann's too.
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Yet strangely not making the least effort to find her daughter.
Oh, very funny. Where would you suggest she starts?
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I'm amazed Faithlilly has insider knowledge of what Cipriano is and isn't up to these days.
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Maybe Shinning in Luz could do her a favour.
What would you suggest he does ?
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What would you suggest he does ?
Tell her to join the forum.
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Tell her to join the forum.
The world doesn't revolve around the internet.
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The world doesn't revolve around the internet.
Doesn't it?
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Oh, very funny. Where would you suggest she starts?
She has a certain media profile now, I’m sure that would help. Facebook page, posters, she could fundraise through GoFundMe...there are plenty of ways in this digital world.
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She has a certain media profile now, I’m sure that would help. Facebook page, posters, she could fundraise through GoFundMe...there are plenty of ways in this digital world.
has he not exhausted her opprtunities to appeal....however it seem Sandra F is looking into her case as a miscarriage of justice now.
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has he not exhausted her opprtunities to appeal....however it seem Sandra F is looking into her case as a miscarriage of justice now.
Will that find her daughter then ?
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Will that find her daughter then ?
like maddie she is probably no longer alive...both victims of stranger abductions in my view...
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has he not exhausted her opprtunities to appeal....however it seem Sandra F is looking into her case as a miscarriage of justice now.
Good. She's got more faces than the Town Hall Clock. They deserve each other.
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Good. She's got more faces than the Town Hall Clock. They deserve each other.
Sandra... the portuguese journalist who exposed more of amarals lies...is there end end to his lies
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interesting point...leonora appealed and lost. Did she then give up...have all her appeals to the portugues ecourts been exhausted...if not an appeal to the ECHR might still be possible
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interesting point...leonora appealed and lost. Did she then give up...have all her appeals to the portugues ecourts been exhausted...if not an appeal to the ECHR might still be possible
Fingers crossed.
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Fingers crossed.
fingers crossed wont do..it requires action....mothers accused of killing their children lives matter
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fingers crossed wont do..it requires action....mothers accused of killing their children lives matter
I'm right behind it. They'd trawl back through the evidence. I'd love to see that happen.
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I'm right behind it. They'd trawl back through the evidence. I'd love to see that happen.
the application would be re the right to a fair trial...being beaten to extract a confesssion ...which has been proven...is automatically an unfair trial
there is no real evidence against her
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the application would be re the right to a fair trial...being beaten to extract a confesssion ...which has been proven...is automatically an unfair trial
there is no real evidence against her
It would entail assessing the previous judgements.
I'll nip back in 2033.
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It would entail assessing the previous judgements.
I'll nip back in 2033.
Im sorry to expose your ignorance... a case to the ECHR would focus simply on a fair trial...and being beaten...which the portuguese courts have proved...acccording to the ECHR...isnt fair
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Im sorry to expose your ignorance... a case to the ECHR would focus simply on a fair trial...and being beaten...which the portuguese courts have proved...acccording to the ECHR...isnt fair
Don't be sorry; we're just two strangers on the internet.
I bow to your superior knowledge of....whatever it is you state I'm ignorant of.
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Will that find her daughter then ?
Find her daughter when she abandoned her children. No chance!
g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;
h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;
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Find her daughter when she abandoned her children. No chance!
g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;
h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;
There you have it, she left home> got a flat and met a nice man...
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Find her daughter when she abandoned her children. No chance!
g) concerning her eldest daughter, EE, who presently lives with her father and grandmother in Olhao, she left her there at the age of 11 months, never cared for her again, and didn't ask about her, for 14 years;
h) her second child, FF, who lived with his paternal grandmother and presently lives with a paternal aunt, in Messines, was also left by her to the father, and she never cared for him again;
I expect some will make excuses for her.
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Sadie for one and congrats being a new mod 8((()*/
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Sadie for one and congrats being a new mod 8((()*/
Thanks Pathfinder. I'll try to make a difference.
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Thanks Pathfinder. I'll try to make a difference.
Now this is good news. Good luck G.
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You lot aren’t very observant. She’s been a mod for weeks!
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You lot aren’t very observant. She’s been a mod for weeks!
A good while before you noticed too.
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A good while before you noticed too.
Oh? When did I notice then?
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She has a certain media profile now, I’m sure that would help. Facebook page, posters, she could fundraise through GoFundMe...there are plenty of ways in this digital world.
Strange isn't it the McCann's did all of that, yet some still say they are not looking for Madeleine.
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Now this is good news. Good luck G.
Thanks Faith. Hopefully I won't need luck. 8()-000(
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I have removed the rubbish from this thread and moved it to the Joana Cipriano board but I must counsel members against posting incorrect information regarding this case. I feel I must correct previous disinformation.
This woman freely confessed to being present when her brother accidentally killed the child by hitting her head off the kitchen door frame. Blood remnants collected from the door frame corroborated the mothers confession.
The child was seen returning home with her shopping, her blood spattered shoes were found under a settee so the claim that she never returned home is indeed rubbish. The constant diatribe rolled out here often that there was no evidence against Leonora Cipriano is also nonsense.
Joana was farmed out to strangers by her mother so that she could go off with her boyfriends.The only time that she took much interest in the child was when Leandro arrived on the scene. He gave stability to the family but that too was disturbed by the unwanted presence of the girl's delinquent uncle, John Cipriano. For his part, John Cipriano freely admitted killing the girl and this is recorded on video for all to see. He also admitted cutting up the girls remains and feeding them to the pigs. A later version by him related that he had buried the child up in the hills, several searches failed to find them.
Leanora Cipriano is a serial liar, the reason why she got an additional sentence for perjury. She has served her sentence and is now on supervised release.
One last point, Goncalo Amaral was present when Leonora Cipriano was beaten by police investigators while remanded in custody.
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Are we being ordered not to allow or to personally contradict anything that you, Admin has stated as fact?
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Are we being ordered not to allow or to personally contradict anything that you, Admin has stated as fact?
By no means but I will not allow disinformation or personal sentiment to cloud the facts that exist in this case.
One member offering the comment that no evidence exists against Leonora Cipriano must come high on the laughable scoreboard as does the comment that she was a good mother. Both are wholly inaccurate and have been documented as such on the relevant threads.
So please good folks, make my job a little easier and keep to the known established facts.
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By no means but I will not allow disinformation or personal sentiment to cloud the facts that exist in this case.
One member offering the comment that no evidence exists against Leonora Cipriano must come high on the laughable scoreboard as does the comment that she was a good mother. Both are wholly inaccurate and have been documented as such on the relevant threads.
So please good folks, make my job a little easier and keep to the known established facts.
In so far as I have seen there are very few known "Facts" some of which I find highly questionable.
I shall of course make your life easier by no longer participating in any way on this Thread.
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A reminder...
Leonor Cipriano released from prison after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
Published 7 Feb 2019
Leonor Cipriano – the Algarve mother jailed in 2006 for the murder of her eight year old daughter Joana – has been released after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
(https://www.portugalresident.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/tvi-leonor-cipriano.jpg)
Talking to TVI24 at the gates of Odemira jail this morning, she said she was leaving with her head held high.
“I am going to work. I have a little job. I don’t need to say anymore”.
But the questions remain. What really happened to tragic Joana whose body has never been found?
Leonor and her now estranged brother João admitted in court that they had killed the little girl at her home in Figueira, midway between Portimão and Mexilhoeira Grande.
João claims to have cut up her body and hidden it in a chest freezer. The child’s remains were later ‘fed to the pigs’.
“I didn’t hurt her, I just killed her”, João told the court which originally passed sentences on him of 19 years and two months, and on Leonor of 20 years and four months.
The prosecution’s case was based on the theory that Leonor and João were engaged in an incestuous relationship – and that they killed Joana for having walked in on them both in bed.
But there have always been those that doubted the story – neighbours particularly. And now Leonor has once again insisted that she had nothing to do with her daughter’s disappearance, least of all her death.
In the mists of this morning in the Alentejo she answered the question “what happened that night when Joana left to go shopping ?” with “she left and never came home. Anyone who says she came home is lying”.
Leonor claims the only reason she admitted to having killed the little girl was because she was tortured by agents of the investigating PJ police.
“They tortured me so much, they left me black and blue from so much punching that I reached the point where I didn’t know what I was saying…”
This too is a sore point in the case: PJ inspectors Gonçalo Amaral and António Nunes Cardoso were given suspended jail sentences for profering false testimonies over the beating.
The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
But back to Joana, and fact that a body has never been found. Leonor told TVI this morning: “I was condemned without proof. I did not kill my daughter I would never have hurt her”.
Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
https://www.portugalresident.com/2019/02/07/mother-jailed-for-killing-tragic-joana-released-to-get-on-with-life/
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In so far as I have seen there are very few known "Facts" some of which I find highly questionable.
I shall of course make your life easier by no longer participating in any way on this Thread.
With respect, I totally disagree. If you dispute anything that I posted I will gladly review it if you provide evidence to the contrary.
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By no means but I will not allow disinformation or personal sentiment to cloud the facts that exist in this case.
One member offering the comment that no evidence exists against Leonora Cipriano must come high on the laughable scoreboard as does the comment that she was a good mother. Both are wholly inaccurate and have been documented as such on the relevant threads.
So please good folks, make my job a little easier and keep to the known established facts.
What do you think of the "proven fact" that as children normally get back home that it can be taken as fact that she did as well?